General/Other - Kotal Kahn Discussing the Viability of Blood God and Sun God

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

this, his obsidian totem is actually really useful in case you get punished, especially when there are a lot of characters who can match your damage or exceed it (D'vorah, Scorpion, etc)


i wouldn't, i'd prefer having them both in his kit but not simultaneously, as much of a wet dream that would be

maybe NRS ought to make a fourth totem for armor

Only if it is shaped like Banes head.

 

[Beef Supreme]

So after watching Mr Aqua's blood good wins that were posted today, and seeing the reactions from Combo breaker of certain characters doing well (Kotal and Takeda), may be Sun God's meta just hasn't really been found yet? Everyone focuses on the damage of the command grab, but what if the reason it is low is because you are supposed to be landing them and then soon after doing a soul burn (whatever that move is called) to build meter/regain health? I'm starting to think the only thing I'd like adjusted to Sun God would to make the command grab hit after a few more block strings and then I'd be fine with it as is.

 

[RYX]

Only if it is shaped like Banes head.

if kotal were anything like post-patch bane i'd never complain

gib oki pls

 

[VenomX-90]

Idk but all I care about is the command grab "On your knees" making bitches kneel whenever I do it. Seriously though, which variation is best for Kotal Kahn?

 

[Qwark28]

Idk but all I care about is the command grab "On your knees" making bitches kneel whenever I do it. Seriously though, which variation is best for Kotal Kahn?

War god is #1

the other 2 depend on the matchup

im writing a thread and uploading a video on this right now

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

if kotal were anything like post-patch bane i'd never complain

gib oki pls

Btw... i was reading through this

What are the Kotals thoughts in these two variations that having the levels of sun or totem affect how the parry works.

This is just spitballing and will probably never happen. But to make him really quite cool.

in Blood God, the Obsedian (defense) totem allows his normal parry to parry air attacks for an 8% HKD throw.
The ex Version does the same but doubles the damage.

The "damage" totem doesn't change anything (lol no way)

The other totem allows him the same thing as Sonya's parry. Ability to switch sides, and the Ex version is a full combo.

Then... in Sun God.... each level of the throw you have, will impact the damage dealt ON parry (dealing 2, 3, 5 respectively) as well as allowing him to parry more hits.

So no level gets 1 hit into 2%. Level 1 gets 2 hits into 2%, level 2 gets 3 hits into 3% and level 3 gets 4 hits into 5% adding in the normal parry attributes.

Never will happen, and might be fucking stupid op... but whatevs. it sounds really cool.

 

[Crayraven]

War god is #1

the other 2 depend on the matchup

im writing a thread and uploading a video on this right now

Did you ever finish your sun god vs blood god damage comparison? Anyhow, I appreciate Kotal Kahn research!

 

[RYX]

@NRF CharlieMurphy

sun god would have been more interesting if sun god levels meant anything more than your choke does more damage. kind of a let down to see how little is actually unique to it compared to blood/war god

 

[Qwark28]

Did you ever finish your sun god vs blood god damage comparison? Anyhow, I appreciate Kotal Kahn research!

its exactly what im uploading right now, both variations are very matchup dependant.

Sun god seems to be the go-to variation if you dont like War god, Blood god being the variation that is clearly better vs zoners and the like.

 

[Phosferrax]

It would be so hype if Blood God could pick the totems up and use them as weapons/projectiles. A man can dream.

 

[Beef Supreme]

sun god would have been more interesting if sun god levels meant anything more than your choke does more damage. kind of a let down to see how little is actually unique to it compared to blood/war god

It does, but most people have found the other use worthless right now. The charges build up soul scorch, and you can use soul scorch to gain a bit of meter, or you can MB soul scorch and get some health back.

 

[RYX]

It does, but most people have found the other use worthless right now. The charges build up soul scorch, and you can use soul scorch to gain a bit of meter, or you can MB soul scorch and get some health back.

it's a worthless heal and only getting half a bar, as niche-useful as it can be, is nowhere near valuable enough to forgo the strong tick throws and damage enders

having the usefulness of the rest of his kit being tweaked per sun choke level with the cash-out reward being bumped as well would've made him a much more interesting and complex character. ofc that's not gonna happen so we just have to hope he becomes... "better"

 

[KeyserSoze]

Btw... i was reading through this

What are the Kotals thoughts in these two variations that having the levels of sun or totem affect how the parry works.

This is just spitballing and will probably never happen. But to make him really quite cool.

in Blood God, the Obsedian (defense) totem allows his normal parry to parry air attacks for an 8% HKD throw.
The ex Version does the same but doubles the damage.

The "damage" totem doesn't change anything (lol no way)

The other totem allows him the same thing as Sonya's parry. Ability to switch sides, and the Ex version is a full combo.

Then... in Sun God.... each level of the throw you have, will impact the damage dealt ON parry (dealing 2, 3, 5 respectively) as well as allowing him to parry more hits.

So no level gets 1 hit into 2%. Level 1 gets 2 hits into 2%, level 2 gets 3 hits into 3% and level 3 gets 4 hits into 5% adding in the normal parry attributes.

Never will happen, and might be fucking stupid op... but whatevs. it sounds really cool.

Love this. Sadly, I agree, nothing like this is happening.

 

[Runninonwater]

The PC users are finally up to date!

I tried out Sun God randomly today and noticed it did more damage.
114 xx DF1 EX, F2, 21, Sun choke (level 3) does a whopping 44%!

Not only that, air to air with a Jump 1 , F2, F2 , 21 Sun choke Does about 33-34 %.

Im gonna go back and practice som Kotal Kahn again

I don't like War God much but i hope Blood God and Sun God will receive more buffs/changes in the future.

 

[Tigerbang]

Kotal Kahn War God is a Top Tier Character that has a lot of options and can shut down A LOT of the opponents options. He is not broken but he is considerably stronger than the general consensus believes him to be.

 

[Shufflez]

I wouldn't go as far as to say War God is top tier but it's the reason they were so careful about buffing Sun/Blood god instead of giving us the kenshi treatment, I'm sure everyone here could think of a few universal changes that could easily make Blood and Sun god much better variations than they are now but they would also rub off on War god and giving War god too many buffs it doesn't need could result in something potentially broken and still leave us with War god > Sun/Blood god in most situations making the changes pointless.

I think War god is stronger than most believe it to be but weaker than you believe it to be.

 

[SEV]

I'm thinking Blood God could be viable now. With Obsidian up you can have up to 200% health by default, then with that all of his healing is essentially doubled since you have 100% damage reduction. So Blood Totem BnB's from F1B2 technically give you 8-16% health back, and God Ray's guaranteed 4 ticks of health regeneration technically gives 4% instead of 2%.

He still has the same flaws as before but the character can have so much health now, which means the opponent potentially has to use up to double the resources to take a round, and with the ability to meter starve your opponent with Blood Totem, he could potentially be a real bitch to kill.

Unfortunately though he still doesn't seem to be viable against against certain characters.

A good change would be to make parry push them off you, like a push block, rather than just negating the initial hit. Something should be done with that move since it's almost completely useless in BG and may as well be in SG since you have access to armored command grab. Even if it only does it from ex parry, I still think it would be a good change.

The only potential usage of parry in it's current state that I can see right now would be in BG to create a mind game from pokes between throwing up a totem or parrying: D4xx Totem is plus on hit, but obviously not able to be hit confirmed, so if you think they're going to block and counter poke the parry would counter; unfortunately if they do a multi-hitting reversal or string pressure, or are patient and don't mash but rather wait and react, the dream is dead.

 

[delbuster]

i wish the sun thing where you cash in your levels has really fast recovery so you can use it as a free cancel. combo extensions or pressure extensions and such.

 

[KeyserSoze]

I'm thinking Blood God could be viable now. With Obsidian up you can have up to 200% health by default, then with that all of his healing is essentially doubled since you have 100% damage reduction. So Blood Totem BnB's from F1B2 technically give you 8-16% health back, and God Ray's guaranteed 4 ticks of health regeneration technically gives 4% instead of 2%.

He still has the same flaws as before but the character can have so much health now, which means the opponent potentially has to use up to double the resources to take a round, and with the ability to meter starve your opponent with Blood Totem, he could potentially be a real bitch to kill.

Unfortunately though he still doesn't seem to be viable against against certain characters.

A good change would be to make parry push them off you, like a push block, rather than just negating the initial hit. Something should be done with that move since it's almost completely useless in BG and may as well be in SG since you have access to armored command grab. Even if it only does it from ex parry, I still think it would be a good change.

The only potential usage of parry in it's current state that I can see right now would be in BG to create a mind game from pokes between throwing up a totem or parrying: D4xx Totem is plus on hit, but obviously not able to be hit confirmed, so if you think they're going to block and counter poke the parry would counter; unfortunately if they do a multi-hitting reversal or string pressure, or are patient and don't mash but rather wait and react, the dream is dead.

I'm now Officially on the blood god and sun god are viable train. The obsidian totem and sun choke buffs were very, very good and immensely helped each respective variation. Parry still sucks, but what are you gonna do?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I'm now Officially on the blood god and sun god are viable train. The obsidian totem and sun choke buffs were very, very good and immensely helped each respective variation. Parry still sucks, but what are you gonna do?

use it like sonyas

mostly against SZ when i'm in the corner and sniff out his stupid OH or a run up throw.

 

[Qwark28]

How about we actually play the game for a few months before judging what he needs or not? There is so much vaague stuff being said about how "he can't compete" but never against which specific character.

Just because you can't figure out a matchup in the first 2 months of the game doesn't mean your character needs buffs.

 

[SEV]

If you're referring to my post where I said he isn't viable against certain characters, I meant BG specifically, even then I guess I should have said that his other variations are much better suited because they have armor/wake ups. The characters I had in mind were those with standing vortexes where there is a possibility that your totems could never even come into play(Scorpion, Raiden, Quan Chi, etc.).

 

[Qwark28]

If you're referring to my post where I said he still isn't viable against certain characters I meant BG specifically, even then I guess I should have said that his other variations are much better suited because they have armor/wake ups, and the characters I had in mind were those with standing vortexes where there is a possibility that your totems could never even come into play(Scorpion, Raiden, Quan Chi, etc.).

I'm referring to the forum in general, I keep seeing complaints when it hasn't even been a week from the hotfix date.

 

[SEV]

I'm reffering to the forum in general, I keep seeing complaints when it hasn't even been a week from the hotfix date.

Ah gotcha, gotcha.

 

[KeyserSoze]

use it like sonyas

mostly against SZ when i'm in the corner and sniff out his stupid OH or a run up throw.

I actually use it most effectively to stuff wake-ups (like Sub's slide).

My take on mace parry: I personally don't find the risk/reward of parry worth it in most neutral-game situations. If you whiff it, you are most likely getting full-combo punished. And, almost anything you can stuff with parry, you can just as easily block and punish without taking any of the risk associated with whiffing it. So . .. why not just block and punish?? I just don't see how an honest cost benefit analysis of mace parry warrants it being used on a frequent basis. It's not terrible, but it's very situationl, imo.