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Dink's Firestorm MU Chart

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
Honestly think Swampy vs Firestorm is 5-5. You zone him yea but Firestorm's zoning is okay until you get to about mid molten trap range because if I read molten trap or delayed fireball youre eating a J2 and im on top of you. Not to mention I can punish MB Molten trap from further ranges than others/check molten trap (F2 boys) and him only having a 7 frame D1 means Swamp Thing can actually use restand consistently which is makes his corner game way scarier.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
Just out of curiosity, why do you have BA as 4-6? Is it just footsies advantage? I feel like we compete with him for damage and have better setup potential.
Neutral and just better control of the screen in general. Black Adam thrives on being able to control the screen and it's hard for Firestorm to compete with his normal, divekick, etc. Uphill climb from what ive seen/heard.
 

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
Just out of curiosity, why do you have BA as 4-6? Is it just footsies advantage? I feel like we compete with him for damage and have better setup potential.
I should've put 4.5-5.5 honestly. It's a manageable MU but we can't really take big risks. B2 gets full combo punished, don't even think about whiffing a charge, and you have to be super careful with trap or just avoid it all together when you guys are far apart. I find jumping back more to catch dives and stuff helps but I think that we are forced to play a lot safer and he can still do his thing. We have to take less risks because he can punish any risky thing that we go for so I think if it's in anyone's favor it's in Adam's.
 

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
Honestly think Swampy vs Firestorm is 5-5. You zone him yea but Firestorm's zoning is okay until you get to about mid molten trap range because if I read molten trap or delayed fireball youre eating a J2 and im on top of you. Not to mention I can punish MB Molten trap from further ranges than others/check molten trap (F2 boys) and him only having a 7 frame D1 means Swamp Thing can actually use restand consistently which is makes his corner game way scarier.
I played DR in this MU, if you're full screen you're not getting to me for like a good 30 seconds without doing something ballsy
 

jcbowie

...more deadly than the dawn.
I should've put 4.5-5.5 honestly. It's a manageable MU but we can't really take big risks. B2 gets full combo punished, don't even think about whiffing a charge, and you have to be super careful with trap or just avoid it all together when you guys are far apart. I find jumping back more to catch dives and stuff helps but I think that we are forced to play a lot safer and he can still do his thing. We have to take less risks because he can punish any risky thing that we go for so I think if it's in anyone's favor it's in Adam's.
That's pretty fair. I forgot Adam's frames were so good.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
I played DR in this MU, if you're full screen you're not getting to me for like a good 30 seconds without doing something ballsy
well yea but i'm not really taking chip during that time. all that's happening is you're building meter, not to mention DB3 also helps a lot to get in. Point being I'm not really losing a ton while trying to get in (unlike in Deadshot/Fate where I'm eating a ton of chip AND they're building meter) just takes patience.

EDIT: Tho tbh you wanna run it later today?
 

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
well yea but i'm not really taking chip during that time. all that's happening is you're building meter, not to mention DB3 also helps a lot to get in. Point being I'm not really losing a ton while trying to get in (unlike in Deadshot/Fate where I'm eating a ton of chip AND they're building meter) just takes patience.

EDIT: Tho tbh you wanna run it later today?
sure!
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Honestly think Swampy vs Firestorm is 5-5. You zone him yea but Firestorm's zoning is okay until you get to about mid molten trap range because if I read molten trap or delayed fireball youre eating a J2 and im on top of you. Not to mention I can punish MB Molten trap from further ranges than others/check molten trap (F2 boys) and him only having a 7 frame D1 means Swamp Thing can actually use restand consistently which is makes his corner game way scarier.
Dude quit up-playing these Swamp Thing MUs lol. Play Jon Nitti for a set and tell me this shit is 5-5.

Just because it is technically winnable doesn't make it 5-5. This is a hard 4-6 for him man. That means Swamp can win. It's likely it'll happen almost every other game. But the overall MU is ABSOLUTELY in Firestorm's favor.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
Dude quit up-playing these Swamp Thing MUs lol. Play Jon Nitti for a set and tell me this shit is 5-5.

Just because it is technically winnable doesn't make it 5-5. This is a hard 4-6 for him man. That means Swamp can win. It's likely it'll happen almost every other game. But the overall MU is ABSOLUTELY in Firestorm's favor.
I mean. I've played Jon and it's usually dead even soooooo...

EDIT: When I say this kind of stuff I'm not saying it to upplay i'm saying it because in my experience, that shit is even as fuck. Both characters have points on the screen where they need to make super hard reads to get back to their comfort zone, and Swamp Thing gets more out of being in his comfort zone than FS does.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
I mean. I've played Jon and it's usually dead even soooooo...

EDIT: When I say this kind of stuff I'm not saying it to upplay i'm saying it because in my experience, that shit is even as fuck. Both characters have points on the screen where they need to make super hard reads to get back to their comfort zone, and Swamp Thing gets more out of being in his comfort zone than FS does.
I dunno. In my opinion, despite execution technicality, if I have to work significantly harder than my opponent to stay even it's not a 5-5. Not saying that is the exact model for this MU, but it's how I view it.

Besides, NRS obviously doesn't understand Swamp's balance so I'm holding all up-plays till we get them mega buffs lol.
 

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
Okay so let's try this again. Still a work in progress guys.

Sub Zero: 5-5
Cyborg: I'm not 100% but I think 6-4
Catwoman: 5-5 but I hear it's 4-6
Flash: 5-5 maybe?
Green Lantern: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 5-5
Batman: 4-6
Superman 4.5-5.5
Joker: 5-5
Atrocitus: not sure
Gorilla Grodd: 6-4
Cheetah: 5-5
Deadshot: 3-7
Poison Ivy: 6-4
Starfire: 5-5 (maybe 4-6?) hard to come back from a life deficit here
Black Manta: not sure
Supergirl: 5-5
Green Arrow: 4-6
Doctor Fate: 5-5 but I wanna say 4-6
Blue Beetle: 5-5
Aquaman: 6-4
Black Canary: 6-4
Darkseid: I hear it's 5-5
Wonder Woman: I'm actually not so sure. 5-5 but maybe 4-6 actually this is a tough one
Black Adam: 4-6
Captain Cold: 6-4
Robin: 6-4
Scarecrow: 6-4
Bane: not sure
Brainiac: not sure


Just a friendly reminder too that I'm still working on a lot of these MU's and I'm open to hear why I could be wrong about anything. I'm getting closer and closer to finalizing my thoughts on a lot of this stuff.
(I main Crow btw) I think Crow is potentially a 5 - 5, once he gets past the zoning and gets in his F2 range he kinda just wins the neutral. None of Firestorms button will reach that far and if FS does MT then Crow can get a F23 450 damage punish.

That being said, the zoning is difficult and FS has good pressure of his own so I think it may be an even MU
 

jcbowie

...more deadly than the dawn.
Bane: not sure
Brainiac: not sure
I think FS wins both of these matchhups.

With Bane he really just controls the pace, has strong enough zoning to wind down trait when he has to, reaction mb b3 to charge, mix up whether or not you mb the trap, use trap as a trip guard if they try to jump in, etc. He just has good enough space control to make this matchup not super difficult imo. Rushdown is a bad idea because reversal armor just ruins Firestorm's plus setups a lot of the time, but just avoid this and you're good. Probably 6-4 for FS, you just stay defensive.

I would say we win Brainiac too but not as easily. Like we don't have a good AA to counter approach but if you read or react quick enough then psycho crusher takes out his tendril swing pretty easily, staying at midrange you can use trap to get rid of/blow up activation of trait pretty easily, better zoning again, and very comparable damage for the difficult Brainiac has getting in. All Brainiac can do is hope that you respect the mb divekick possibility and outfootsie you once you convince him to respect the air control, but it's not *too* hard to stay out of his range. FS can also go in and abuse his frames more easily on Brainiac than a character like Bane where reversal armor is a problem. Most of Brainiac's moves are slower. I would put this closer to 5-5 I think, but slightly in FS favor.
 

KGA Prosaic

RM Prosaic
I agree with a lot of your matchups, some changes I would make would be
- Sub-Zero, I think we 6-4 him
- Catwoman, 4-6
- Superman, 5-5. I elaborate on this one.
F23xxbreath has to respect a d1 follow up. And we outzone him fairly well. We also have the ability to blow up his wake ups fairly well. If it wasn't for f23 I feel like we'd 6-4 him
I think we also lose to catwoman, deadshot, and Green arrow.