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Dink's Firestorm MU Chart

Meep8345

Meep8345

Noob
I actually am now scared of firestorm after the nerfs I saw of the top tiers. This character seems like he'll probably get better now once the patch drops.
 
RM Jonnitti

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
high, highly, HIGHLY disagree with superman. i think we at least go even. biggest difference in this match is that after breath superman cant shimmy firestorm because if he tries to walk backwards he ends up blocking a d1. also the fact that lasers go away on hit really help us out because he can't trade with us in most cases. if it looks like hes about to sneeze you can do an ex fireball out of the startup, its slow as shit and i used to do that with ex guns from deathstroke all the time in inj1. also we control the skies with the air psycho crusher. i think this next patch we might beat him
 
RM Jonnitti

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
i also thought we beat aquaman until i fought coach steve and played the matchup completely differently and made me thing otherwise. but none of that shits gonna matter next week because he went from oceanman to the waterboy
 
jcbowie

jcbowie

...more deadly than the dawn.
RM Jonnitti said:
high, highly, HIGHLY disagree with superman. i think we at least go even. biggest difference in this match is that after breath superman cant shimmy firestorm because if he tries to walk backwards he ends up blocking a d1. also the fact that lasers go away on hit really help us out because he can't trade with us in most cases. if it looks like hes about to sneeze you can do an ex fireball out of the startup, its slow as shit and i used to do that with ex guns from deathstroke all the time in inj1. also we control the skies with the air psycho crusher. i think this next patch we might beat him
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I disagree with the controlling the air bit, and that's really where I think we lose this. It feels like SUPER finicky timing to punish the air lasers with the torpedo (or maybe I just haven't gotten the hang of it yet?), and his aerials absolutely wreck Firestorms too, so if you're both trying to use air dashes to get in he'll win 9/10 times OR if he's abusing air dash himself then the lack of a real AA attack with FS becomes a veeeery glaring weakness.
 
RM Jonnitti

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
jcbowie said:
I disagree with the controlling the air bit, and that's really where I think we lose this. It feels like SUPER finicky timing to punish the air lasers with the torpedo (or maybe I just haven't gotten the hang of it yet?), and his aerials absolutely wreck Firestorms too, so if you're both trying to use air dashes to get in he'll win 9/10 times OR if he's abusing air dash himself then the lack of a real AA attack with FS becomes a veeeery glaring weakness.
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when you punish the air laser, you need to wait for the animation of the laser to end and then input the torpedo and you hit superman on the way down. best idea is to jump when the laser comes out instead of jump with him

outside of divebombs superman doesnt have a cross up and he doesnt have any real low/overhead after a jump in so im indifferent to getting jumped in on. as far as air dashes go i find them extremely easy to block because your opponents body literally turns around if they cross you up and thats a huge visual que, but keep in mind if they cross you up with an air dash the burst is a good tool to deal with it. also if superman is air dashing at you, you can hit him with an air torpedo.
 
jcbowie

jcbowie

...more deadly than the dawn.
RM Jonnitti said:
when you punish the air laser, you need to wait for the animation of the laser to end and then input the torpedo and you hit superman on the way down. best idea is to jump when the laser comes out instead of jump with him

outside of divebombs superman doesnt have a cross up and he doesnt have any real low/overhead after a jump in so im indifferent to getting jumped in on. as far as air dashes go i find them extremely easy to block because your opponents body literally turns around if they cross you up and thats a huge visual que, but keep in mind if they cross you up with an air dash the burst is a good tool to deal with it. also if superman is air dashing at you, you can hit him with an air torpedo.
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Hmm, okay, I'll try and approach the timing like that, thanks.

I don't tend to get hit by the raw air dash aerials, and obviously he's not super mixup heavy when he gets in, but after you block the aerial (since you can't AA him out of it) it's kinda hard to deny that Superman's pressure is tremendous with the frames on his pokes and strings, his breath, his trait cancels. He doesn't have 50/50's or anything really, but you he has so many options with great frames that you kinda have to respect a ton of potential followups, which can do considerable chip even if you don't get opened up. The fact that he can get in and start that pressure with an aerial really easily because FS has a hard time AAing feels kinda like a distinct weakness in the matchup.
 
RM Jonnitti

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
jcbowie said:
Hmm, okay, I'll try and approach the timing like that, thanks.

I don't tend to get hit by the raw air dash aerials, and obviously he's not super mixup heavy when he gets in, but after you block the aerial (since you can't AA him out of it) it's kinda hard to deny that Superman's pressure is tremendous with the frames on his pokes and strings, his breath, his trait cancels. He doesn't have 50/50's or anything really, but you he has so many options with great frames that you kinda have to respect a ton of potential followups, which can do considerable chip even if you don't get opened up. The fact that he can get in and start that pressure with an aerial really easily because FS has a hard time AAing feels kinda like a distinct weakness in the matchup.
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like i said before, breath is nothing to be scared of. he can't shimmy after breath because d1 reaches him and if he tries to walk backwards hes going to block a d1. he has to go for other options to open you up post breath which has a lot of superman players go for goofy airdash crossups (which you can do the burst to punish since you can't stick out a button during your air dash) or they will go for backdashes (which is whatever)
 
Misky

Misky

Clinch should be a command grab
I agree with the Robin numbers. It's one of the most painful match ups in the game for me.
 
Speedsterr

Speedsterr

Noob
So after playing several match ups more and after the patch this is my MU chart:

Atrocitus - 5-5
Aquaman - 6-4
Batman - 4-6
Bane - 6-4
Brainiac - 5-5
Blue Beetle - 6-4
Black Canary - 5-5
Black Adam - 5-5
Captain Cold - 6-4
Cyborg - 5-5
Catwoman - 4-6
Cheetah - 4-6
Dr.Fate - 5-5
Darkseid - 6-4
Deadshot - 5-5
Flash - 4-6
Green Latern - 5-5
Gorilla Grodd - 4-6
Green Arrow - 5-5
Harley Quinn - 6-4
Joker - 6-4
Poison Ivy - 6-4
Red hood - 5-5
Robin - 6-4
Sub Zero - 6-4
Swamp thing -6-4
Superman - 4-6
Supergirl - 4-6
Scarecrow - 5-5
Starfire - 5-5
Wonder Woman - 5-5

Let's discuss :)
 
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ArmedCalf

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
At the moment I have:

Aquaman: 6-4
Black Adam: 4-6
Scarecrow: 6-4
Superman: 4-6
Supergirl: 5-5
Cheetah: 5-5 (could be 4-6 but I might just suck)
Swamp Thing: 6-4
Black Canary: 6-4
Darkseid: 4-6
Joker: 5-5
Poison Ivy: 6-4
Sub Zero: 5-5
Robin: 5-5 (maaaaaaaybe 6-4, lots to learn here)
Harley Quinn: 5-5
Batman: 4-6



Still deciding on a lot of these, still playing a lot of MU's.

EDIT: added a lot of MU's and changed some of my original opinions. I'm really working to fill in the blanks and understand certain things more.
 
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Generalbit

Generalbit

The blade of osh-tekk is stale.
Everyone I talk to tells me that firestorm loses badly to the Seid, just cuz I can jump forever and u can't stop me. But with the ability to full screen check w insta laser and punish my zoning attempts w MT and very damaging and easy punishes w d1 xx MT and B1 xx MT the risk reward isn't so bad. Also point blank DS best punish on mb MT is f2 which leads to a good combo but is a 1f punish and can be high punished if I'm a frame slow. But I wanna hear an in depth explanation from @EMPEROR_KNICKS aka the biggest up player cuck ever. He is sure that DS wins 6-4 but all he's ever said is that Seid controls the air. Speak.
 
EMPEROR_KNICKS

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
Generalbit said:
Everyone I talk to tells me that firestorm loses badly to the Seid, just cuz I can jump forever and u can't stop me. But with the ability to full screen check w insta laser and punish my zoning attempts w MT and very damaging and easy punishes w d1 xx MT and B1 xx MT the risk reward isn't so bad. Also point blank DS best punish on mb MT is f2 which leads to a good combo but is a 1f punish and can be high punished if I'm a frame slow. But I wanna hear an in depth explanation from @EMPEROR_KNICKS aka the biggest up player cuck ever. He is sure that DS wins 6-4 but all he's ever said is that Seid controls the air. Speak.
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Darkseid wins 7-3, he controls every part of the screen, firestorm cant anti air, firestorm loses the zoning war, and darkseid outdamages firestorm.
 
Speedsterr

Speedsterr

Noob
EMPEROR_KNICKS said:
Darkseid wins 7-3, he controls every part of the screen, firestorm cant anti air, firestorm loses the zoning war, and darkseid outdamages firestorm.
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Maybe I am yet to verse a darkseid of your level but I disagree.

You can't really throw lasers in this match up, without that you don't build enough meter to do combos.
If you do nothing but jump around, firestorms air to air options are actually decent.

And darkseid definitely does NOT outdamage firestorm. Our bnbs do good dmg, on darkseid especially.
 
EMPEROR_KNICKS

EMPEROR_KNICKS

Master of Kombat(frauds)
Speedsterr said:
Maybe I am yet to verse a darkseid of your level but I disagree.

You can't really throw lasers in this match up, without that you don't build enough meter to do combos.
If you do nothing but jump around, firestorms air to air options are actually decent.

And darkseid definitely does NOT outdamage firestorm. Our bnbs do good dmg, on darkseid especially.
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Darkseid does out damage for a fact lol, i play the mu alot. And darkseid wins the trades, and obvi im not jumping around 24 7, but for firestorm its hard to anti air darkseid on reaction.
 
RoboCop

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
Based on my own experience, Firestorm shits on Captain Cold pretty damn hard. He basically does everything the good Cap'n does, but better. His zoning is superior, forcing Cold to try to get in. His mobility is waaay surperior. His strings are superior. His damage is superior. He gets to just totally ignore the ice puddle.

Essentially, Cold is a defensive powerhouse, but in this MU, none of Cold's defensive tactics apply; he's forced to constantly be on offense, and he's one of the worst offensive characters in the game.

This feels worse than 6/4, but not unbeatable, so I'm calling 7/3.
 
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