Dink's Firestorm MU Chart

[Hellz HitmaN]

As a scarecrow main, I think firestorm loses this matchup 4-6. It isn't too hard for scarecrow to get in, and when he does, it's hard for firestorm to escape. Command grab and pressure lock him down. Firestorm's wakeup can simply be blocked

 

[Generalbit]

Darkseid does out damage for a fact lol, i play the mu alot. And darkseid wins the trades, and obvi im not jumping around 24 7, but for firestorm its hard to anti air darkseid on reaction.

Seid's most damaging bnb to my knowledge w jump in is j3 xx stomp b3 j3 j2 xx stomp this does a little under 50% with no guaranteed following up. Idk FS that well but they usually do around 35%-40% one bar ending w a restand which guarantees chip or shimmychangas. Damage isn't that crazy different

stop up playing u psycho. u know deep down u wanna say seid is bottom one

 

[jcbowie]

Based on my own experience, Firestorm shits on Captain Cold pretty damn hard. He basically does everything the good Cap'n does, but better. His zoning is superior, forcing Cold to try to get in. His mobility is waaay surperior. His strings are superior. His damage is superior. He gets to just totally ignore the ice puddle.

Essentially, Cold is a defensive powerhouse, but in this MU, none of Cold's defensive tactics apply; he's forced to constantly be on offense, and he's one of the worst offensive characters in the game.

This feels worse than 6/4, but not unbeatable, so I'm calling 7/3.

You really would go that far? I agree FS *kinda* shits on Cold but I think given Cold's better frame data, his strong setup potential coupled with his fairly strong zoning capabilities (icicle setups, decent fireball), and his wall (mb or otherwise negating projectiles and then mb forcing you to block the hit after so he has an opportunity to get in) I would probably stick with 6/4 for this matchup. I feel like a skilled Cold can be a problem for a lot of characters. Just my opinion though.

 

[jcbowie]

Seid's most damaging bnb to my knowledge w jump in is j3 xx stomp b3 j3 j2 xx stomp this does a little under 50% with no guaranteed following up. Idk FS that well but they usually do around 35%-40% one bar ending w a restand which guarantees chip or shimmychangas. Damage isn't that crazy different

stop up playing u psycho. u know deep down u wanna say seid is bottom one

The restand guarantees virtually nothing unless you've got trait out, which rarely happens. 10% less damage for less meaningful setups than Darkseid means that FS is pretty much outclassed in every aspect of the combo/damage department.

 

[Generalbit]

The restand guarantees virtually nothing unless you've got trait out, which rarely happens. 10% less damage for less meaningful setups than Darkseid means that FS is pretty much outclassed in every aspect of the combo/damage department.

Idk how firestorm works that well, just theorizing here. But can't u MT after ending a combo w MT? Then condition with that fear?

 

[The_Tile]

The restand guarantees virtually nothing unless you've got trait out, which rarely happens. 10% less damage for less meaningful setups than Darkseid means that FS is pretty much outclassed in every aspect of the combo/damage department.

If you hit them high enough with MT you can get guaranteed pressure off it, just to let you know

 

[jcbowie]

Idk how firestorm works that well, just theorizing here. But can't u MT after ending a combo w MT? Then condition with that fear?

That is one of the very few, if not the only, guaranteed options, but not only is it slightly tight to guarantee it, it also is a very easy punish (mb or otherwise) from a variety of ranges depending on the character.

It can *technically* be used to condition, but if you do get the restand midscreen you can't really follow that up with pressure to reinforce that conditioning without bar and for a very unsafe opportunity. Even if you do manage to condition a low block based on that threat alone, FS doesn't really have much meaningful pressure to followup with that isn't really telegraphed or slow to punish an anticipatory low block. Instant airdash into some string seems like the best option but that's kinda reactable.

 

[Generalbit]

That is one of the very few, if not the only, guaranteed options, but not only is it slightly tight to guarantee it, it also is a very easy punish (mb or otherwise) from a variety of ranges depending on the character.

It can *technically* be used to condition, but if you do get the restand midscreen you can't really follow that up with pressure to reinforce that conditioning without bar and for a very unsafe opportunity. Even if you do manage to condition a low block based on that threat alone, FS doesn't really have much meaningful pressure to followup with that isn't really telegraphed or slow to punish an anticipatory low block. Instant airdash into some string seems like the best option but that's kinda reactable.

In the matchup it is a safe option when jailed. Idc ab firestorm but it does seem that he has more options than most after ending a combo

 

[Bender]

Tried my best to deliever an accurate chart. im def open to discussion as the game is new and none of these numbers are solid by any means..just my experience

Sub Zero - 5-5 (open to opinion, not much MU exp)
Swamp thing -6-4 (we zone him, but he does have decent damage sometimes)
cyborg - 6-4
catwoman - 5-5 (she does more damage than us and has better rushdown, but we zone her well and MT can beat cat dash)
Flash - 5-5
Green Latern - 6-4
Harley Quinn - 6-4 (I personally struggle with this MU and i think its 4-6 but the firestorm community assures me im just ass in it so i trust them)
Batman - 4-6
Red hood - 4-6 (he kinda beats us everywhere but not by much)
Superman - 3-7 (our worst MU. very hard to do much against all his rushdown options and he outdamages us. We can outzone him but thats the goal)
Joker - 6-4
Atrocitus - 5-5
Gorilla Grodd - 5-5
Cheetah - 5-5
Deadshot - 5-5
Poison Ivy - 6-4
Supergirl - 6-4
Green Arrow - 6-4
Dr.Fate - 5-5
Blue Beetle - 6-4
Aquaman - 6-4
Black Canary - 5-5
Darkseid - 6-4
Wonder Woman - 6-4
Black Adam - 4-6
Captain Cold - 6-4 (lack of MU experienence here as well)
Robin - 7-3 (im open to this but the robin players ive played stated FS controls neutral way better than robin and thats his key to winning)
Scarecrow - 5-5
Bane - 6-4
Brainiac - 6- 4 (we control the air..where he wants to be)

Curious on your 4-6 redhood spread. As a redhood co-main I always felts this was one of RH's more challenging matchup and would probably put it 5-5.

 

[jcbowie]

In the matchup it is a safe option when jailed. Idc ab firestorm but it does seem that he has more options than most after ending a combo

It's easy to punish if mistimed is what I meant to say, that is an error on my part. But even as a safe followup, having it as a conditioning tool is still not super useful. He really has great followup options on the restand in the corner, but I've generally found that most people are now aware of the "mixup" of doing another MT right after the restand midscreen (used to get everyone), and he really doesn't have any other great guaranteed or super fast followups for the restand outside of the corner.

 

[TheDylbot]

Agree with every mu except red hood, green arrow and darkseid, I personally feel like:

- Red hood is a 5-5, can check him if he gets too zone heavy, can air to air him on jumps. Played this mu alot and I feel like its a decent 5-5, both characters have answers for eachother.

- Darkseid is a 5-5, or in my own personal experiences, 4-6. This guy gives me trouble personally on firestorm because of FS's complete lack of AA so seid gets in for free most of the time (find myself just walking back and trying to open up on a whiffed teleport), but still I believe FS has to play darkseids game and make the reads

- I would personally put green arrow as a 4-6 (maybe 5-5), but good green arrows will be watching for MT and just low profiling you pretty much the entire game. Not a fun MU, at least for me.

Love this character and agree with everything else (hate superman with a burning passion)

 

[EMPEROR_KNICKS]

Agree with every mu except red hood, green arrow and darkseid, I personally feel like:

- Red hood is a 5-5, can check him if he gets too zone heavy, can air to air him on jumps. Played this mu alot and I feel like its a decent 5-5, both characters have answers for eachother.

- Darkseid is a 5-5, or in my own personal experiences, 4-6. This guy gives me trouble personally on firestorm because of FS's complete lack of AA so seid gets in for free most of the time (find myself just walking back and trying to open up on a whiffed teleport), but still I believe FS has to play darkseids game and make the reads

- I would personally put green arrow as a 4-6 (maybe 5-5), but good green arrows will be watching for MT and just low profiling you pretty much the entire game. Not a fun MU, at least for me.

Love this character and agree with everything else (hate superman with a burning passion)

Darkseid beats firestorm like 6-4

 

[Zionix]

Darkseid beats firestorm like 6-4

I watched gunshows firestorm in the match-up and he was doing well.

 

[EMPEROR_KNICKS]

I watched gunshows firestorm in the match-up and he was doing well.

Most Darkseid players dont play many mus correctly, which player was it? and when.

 

[Zionix]

Most Darkseid players dont play many mus correctly, which player was it? and when.

Was a while back, Gunshow is just an animal to be honest.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Most Darkseid players dont play many mus correctly, which player was it? and when.

it was a while ago. It was Gunshow vs M2Dave on gunshow's yt channel.. if you care to outline mistakes in the match, it would be beneficial for both char players

 

[x TeeJay o]

Struggling to see how he beats supergirl

Edit: Disregard. This was post patch hehe

 

[Zionix]

Struggling to see how he beats supergirl

Edit: Disregard. This was post patch hehe

Yeah I think she edges it now. Its close.

 

[ArmedCalf]

I change my opinion of the Cheetah MU. I think it's 5-5. I have grinded it to absolute death. I think the only reason this isn't a winning MU is because if this character touches you, that could be it. I think you have to be the god of all patience in this MU. I don't think you should try AAing pounce as much as you should just dash under it and position yourself better. I also think hitting her with MT when she goes into stance is easier said than done. If you miss, you're dead. I'm pretty comfortable in saying this is 5-5.

 

[Zionix]

I change my opinion of the Cheetah MU. I think it's 5-5. I have grinded it to absolute death. I think the only reason this isn't a winning MU is because if this character touches you, that could be it. I think you have to be the god of all patience in this MU. I don't think you should try AAing pounce as much as you should just dash under it and position yourself better. I also think hitting her with MT when she goes into stance is easier said than done. If you miss, you're dead. I'm pretty comfortable in saying this is 5-5.

I believe its slightly in the favour of Firestorm. Having her D3 go under MB B3 is the only thing that makes this match-up go 5-5 for me currently.

 

[AkioOf100]

Beetle vs Storm is 5-5.

 

[GJX7]

I'm confused about the Scarecrow MU, some say 6 - 4, or 5 - 5, or 4 - 6.

Personally I haven't had much experience in the matchup at all but I would lean it in FS's favour

 

[DarksydeDash]

IMO he loses to Starfire because of the treat of trait and knockdown. He can not do a molten trap from footsie range or even MB it without getting punished.

 

[ArmedCalf]

Okay so let's try this again. Still a work in progress guys.

Sub Zero: 5-5
Cyborg: I'm not 100% but I think 6-4
Catwoman: 5-5 but I hear it's 4-6
Flash: 5-5 maybe?
Green Lantern: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 5-5
Batman: 4-6
Superman 4.5-5.5
Joker: 5-5
Atrocitus: not sure
Gorilla Grodd: 5-5
Cheetah: 5-5
Deadshot: 3-7
Poison Ivy: 6-4
Starfire: 5-5 (maybe 4-6?) hard to come back from a life deficit here
Black Manta: not sure
Supergirl: 5-5
Green Arrow: 4-6
Doctor Fate: 5-5 but I wanna say 4-6
Blue Beetle: 5-5
Aquaman: 6-4
Black Canary: 6-4
Darkseid: I hear it's 5-5
Wonder Woman: I'm actually not so sure. 5-5 but maybe 4-6 actually this is a tough one
Black Adam: 4-6
Captain Cold: 6-4
Robin: 6-4
Scarecrow: 6-4
Bane: not sure
Brainiac: not sure


Just a friendly reminder too that I'm still working on a lot of these MU's and I'm open to hear why I could be wrong about anything. I'm getting closer and closer to finalizing my thoughts on a lot of this stuff.

 

[jcbowie]

Just out of curiosity, why do you have BA as 4-6? Is it just footsies advantage? I feel like we compete with him for damage and have better setup potential.