Question - Hellfire Did we make it?

[ArmedCalf]

Blaze is gross as well

 

[ArmedCalf]

@Asodimazze this was a very eye opening post though. I hadn't really though about Scorpion...but then it got me thinking. Does this character have a weakness? Other than like...unsafe armour?

 

[CrazyFingers]

@Asodimazze this was a very eye opening post though. I hadn't really though about Scorpion...but then it got me thinking. Does this character have a weakness? Other than like...unsafe armour?

On knockdown he has some issues but other than that he is a very solid character with very few weaknesses. He is for sure a top 10 character imo. Ninjitsu not so far behind (probably top 15? Man I can't wait till NEC, wanna see some new shit!)

 

[Tweedy]

I also told this stream chat today that Rewind has the best Raiden right now, better than Lil Majin and Goonie, and people were like "lol wut m8".

People have to get out there and play these people. I know who is good and who is not. Jino and Murko are good, so is Red Raptor, but no one is on Black's level with Hellfire right now.

Sorry if that gets people butthurt.

 

[Matix218]

I also told this stream chat today that Rewind has the best Raiden right now, better than Lil Majin and Goonie, and people were like "lol wut m8".

People have to get out there and play these people. I know who is good and who is not. Jino and Murko are good, so is Red Raptor, but no one is on Black's level with Hellfire right now.

Sorry if that gets people butthurt.

I even said it to you in that stream chat yesterday. I was extremely impressed with Black when I saw those videos. Dude is insane.

 

[Asodimazze]

@Asodimazze this was a very eye opening post though. I hadn't really though about Scorpion...but then it got me thinking. Does this character have a weakness? Other than like...unsafe armour?

Some complain he has a "weak" neutral, but I don't know about that. f3 is a decent mid that guarantees a s3 on block (if I remember correctly), his d4 has great reach, his f2 too. His teleport makes him able to whiff punish anything anyway, can't be zoned by anyone so he has the option to play patiently when in life lead.

I don't think he has any real issues, hard to see a truly bad matchup for him

I also told this stream chat today that Rewind has the best Raiden right now, better than Lil Majin and Goonie, and people were like "lol wut m8".

People have to get out there and play these people. I know who is good and who is not. Jino and Murko are good, so is Red Raptor, but no one is on Black's level with Hellfire right now.

Sorry if that gets people butthurt.

They play different people....what's the point of it? I could be saying "tell Black to come right here and play these people" and it would be the same useless stuff. Anyway, I don't even care

 

[CrazyFingers]

Some complain he has a "weak" neutral, but I don't know about that. f3 is a decent mid that guarantees a s3 on block (if I remember correctly), his d4 has great reach, his f2 too. His teleport makes him able to whiff punish anything anyway, can't be zoned by anyone so he has the option to play patiently when in life lead.

I don't think he has any real issues, hard to see a truly bad matchup for him



They play different people....what's the point of it? I could be saying "tell Black to come right here and play these people" and it would be the same useless stuff. Anyway, I don't even care

Don't forget his B1 which when used in tandem with FBRC is a very good mid.

 

[omooba]

Arguably top 5, surely top 10...I guess hellfire made it

not top 10 not even top 10. but he is slept on

 

[I.z.u.n.a.]

I played this guy named Ninjalpha and he had a pretty crisp Hellfire. He's kind of crazy but if he hits you he has no shame in testing your ability to react to f4. It's annoying.

 

[shura30]

3) Stupid specials. Flame Aura is extremely dumb. Not only it is "safeish" on block (some characters can't punish it if they aren't at 0 distance, and the blockstun is super weird anyway), it's unpunishable on whiff. Its hitbox is one of the stupidest in the whole game, stays active far more than the animation suggests, restands, starts a combo (again, easily 40% +), anti airs everything, gives Scorpion a nice damage buff. Isn't it far too much? It's stupid that Scorpion can cancel anything into aura and if the opponent tries to counterpoke he eats 40%+, whilst Scorpion stays almost safe...he forces you do take a bet that its almost always in his favour. I would be happy with just a hitbox adjustment.

basically this ^

honestly I think scorpion would be fine without the current flame aura properties
the new meta is more centered around pokes and neutral and flame aura just kills the poking game into a full combo at least unbreakable's damage is kinda capped

basically his already amazing buttons get a boost because any of them can be cancelled into FA and catch the opponent trying to get his turn back into full damage followed by a 50/50 on a +26 restand
even if you read the cancel it's still safe due to the idiotic combination of active frames, recovery and hurtbox

I also believe there's a few setups in which scorpion can hard ko the opponent, run in, flame aura and stay at plus frames (murko did this to me a couple of times) @YOMI REO one of your in-depth videos would be cool here

from the EU side of things either there's something we can't clearly see ( I highly doubt it ) or there's no reason why scorpion can't be one of the best characters in this patch

 

[Invincible Salads]

lol @ people saying hellfire is dumb.

 

[STRYKIE]

Flame Aura is fucking ridiculous - I'm getting shirts made to stress this point. People say you can just throw Hell Sparks out but this shit is literally the definition of, "Oh I'm in the neutral? Lol eat my risk free, unable to be whiff punished by normals, AAing, combo into restand, DoT BUFF."

.....I mean he has a bunch of other super good shit as well but man Flame Aura....geeze...

Hell Sparks doesn't have a 7-8 second penalty before you can use it again

Flame Aura is good and I'm not here to say it isn't, but the above isn't taken into consideration often enough when people talk about how it compares to the better moves in the game.

 

[thlityoursloat]

I'm glad i'm not the only person who thinks Flame Aura is braindead, I used to think I'd get blown up if I made a thread about it.

 

[Eddy Wang]

His flame aura is that good?

Flame Aura is broken, but scorpion fucbois will say its fine.
I'm a Scorpion main, and i will tell you, that move has been and is currently one of the most broken special moves right now.
It cannot be whiff punished, its super plus on hit due the extra active frames, if you block one, you cannot punish on certain ranges because you will get burn by the extra active frames.

 

[CrazyFingers]

lol @ people saying hellfire is dumb.

You know instead of just saying "lul hellfire's not dumb" you could actually provide an argument. Ya know, intelligent conversation.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Also what's the consensus on EX TP as a wakeup? I keep hearing it's a bad wakeup but that shit catches me way more often than it should, the startup says it's over 20 frames startup but stuffing is a lot tighter than that due to the fact that he literally moves away and disappears halfway through. I even see get top players get caught by point blank EX TPs while they were pressing buttons.

 

[ArmedCalf]

Hell Sparks doesn't have a 7-8 second penalty before you can use it again

Flame Aura is good and I'm not here to say it isn't, but the above isn't taken into consideration often enough when people talk about how it compares to the better moves in the game.

Yeah but Hell Sparks can be whiff punished, jumped over, ran through, armoured through, avoided all together by backdashing. I'd actually say there's more risk to using Sparks than there is using Flame Aura.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Also what's the consensus on EX TP as a wakeup? I keep hearing it's a bad wakeup but that shit catches me way more often than it should, the startup says it's over 20 frames startup but stuffing is a lot tighter than that due to the fact that he literally moves away and disappears halfway through. I even see get top players get caught by point blank EX TPs while they were pressing buttons.

He disappears off screen in the first 6 frames.

 

[thlityoursloat]

He disappears off screen in the first 6 frames.

Just lol. I thought I was a complete scrub for getting hit by hit all the time in the neutral, turns out it's as stupid as I thought.

 

[ESP-_BLACK]

Please play Black aka Frozen Acid if you think NA lacks Hellfire.

His PSN is NPAB-Frozen-Acid

Red Raptor also plays Hellfire, but Black is even better than Raptor with the character imo. Not that Raptor isn't great, Scorpion is like his 3rd character.

I guarantee Black is better than Murko or Jino.

Na Tweedy i think you're putting me on too high of a pedestal lol. My Hellfire just decent i've only been playing the character for a month? since the oct4 patch dropped. I still have alot of work to go before i can say im the best hellfire

 

[Eddy Wang]

Just lol. I thought I was a complete scrub for getting hit by hit all the time in the neutral, turns out it's as stupid as I thought.

Its not stupid, the full teleport until his first active frame is 21 of startup, and is punishable if blocked even the ex one. The teleport disappears at first end at 6 frames because its a Kounter zoning move in first place, then since it can be canceled, but the recovery is longer it can be used as a super backdash to switch sides or just move 2 backdashes away in 6 frames.

It doesn't escape gaps as long as they're not 8f gaps or bigger that shouldn't even be considered gaps.

This doesn't need to be turned into a witch hunt towards scropion, the teleport track bad as already is, and be easily manipulated just as any teleport in the game that is not Raiden.

 

[Eddy Wang]

If you stop pressing buttons without knowing how to set your knockdowns right to hit a meaty normal there is no way ex TP will hit you on wakeups.

 

[Matix218]

Na Tweedy i think you're putting me on too high of a pedestal lol. My Hellfire just decent i've only been playing the character for a month? since the oct4 patch dropped. I still have alot of work to go before i can say im the best hellfire

Dat modesty

Either way though your hellfire is really good dude.

 

[ArmedCalf]

Na Tweedy i think you're putting me on too high of a pedestal lol. My Hellfire just decent i've only been playing the character for a month? since the oct4 patch dropped. I still have alot of work to go before i can say im the best hellfire

I'm officially entering this race I dropped Jason and I'm about to change my little tiny name thing under my profile pic. I feel like this character might suit me pretty nicely

 

[Matix218]

If you stop pressing buttons without knowing how to set your knockdowns right to hit a meaty normal there is no way ex TP will hit you on wakeups.

When i play good players they stuff it every time. The hardest part of playing scorpion is that it is hard to get off the ground because really your only option (other than block/jump/backdash/delay which everyone can do) is ex takedown. Good players stuff ex teleport before it can even reverse sides.

Edit: also if they pressure your wakeup with a forward advancing string even if they dont stuff the first part of it the second part of it will generally whiff because they are still moving away from scorpion