Question - Hellfire Did we make it?

[braandooon]

After the most recent patch, many run cancel characters took a big hit. Unlike other characters however, Hellfire Scorpion seems to do alright still and is still seeing play.

Although his dash cancels were nerfed, he is still able to do well in my opinion. Do you guys share this opinion?

Hellfire now is still able to do things he was before the patch, his 214 pressure for example, even though you can not do it 3x, who even did it before this patch? It was likely that someone would armor the gap or even backdash. His S3 is still able to be normally dash cancelled off of to get a full combo, and remains unchanged. S4 FBCs still jail, and I believe his 123, FBC S3 still does as well. I feel like the only reason he has survived however, is because his combos do not rely on run cancels. Whenever you run cancel in a combo it seems to lower your damage output actually. Characters like A-List Johnny used run cancels in their combos unlike Scorpion.

What do you guys think?

 

[Invincible Salads]

he's still good

 

[Matix218]

After the most recent patch, many run cancel characters took a big hit. Unlike other characters however, Hellfire Scorpion seems to do alright still and is still seeing play.

Although his dash cancels were nerfed, he is still able to do well in my opinion. Do you guys share this opinion?

Hellfire now is still able to do things he was before the patch, his 214 pressure for example, even though you can not do it 3x, who even did it before this patch? It was likely that someone would armor the gap or even backdash. His S3 is still able to be normally dash cancelled off of to get a full combo, and remains unchanged. S4 FBCs still jail, and I believe his 123, FBC S3 still does as well. I feel like the only reason he has survived however, is because his combos do not rely on run cancels. Whenever you run cancel in a combo it seems to lower your damage output actually. Characters like A-List Johnny used run cancels in their combos unlike Scorpion.

What do you guys think?

I think characters whose core character design was based around run cancels in both pressure and combos were hurt much more. Hellfire has scorpions already rather strong core tools and he has the ability to get solid damage off of any hit, counter zone with ex teleport, anti air with s3 and d2, leave you in a plus frame standing reset after a combo, 50/50s, without even having to rely solely on his fbrc pressure options. Basically the fbrc stuff is what puts hellfire over the top and makes it a truly strong variation in the right hands. It does not need to be able to do multiple cancels to still be strong because a lot of the time you are using it to pressure and try to open someone up AFTER you have already comboed them for big damage and left them standing. The run cancel pressure changes in this patch hurt hellfire less than others because he had a solid core character to start with in my opinion and the fbrc stuff is still good even though it is more limited by stamina now.

I agree the character is absolutely still good and I also think he is higher tier overall than before the patch due to changes to other characters who game him trouble before the patch.

Imo he is more viable now.

 

[omooba]

Here's the thing about hellfire. S3 goes really far and you don't need to run to combo it. A dash cancel works just as well. The only other run cancel character with something like this is cage and his is 1,2 which doesn't go nearly as far. And even if he didn't have it, scorpion has so many other tools he can still combo from meterlessly and pressure. That's the main thing that hit there other characters

 

[Matix218]

Here's the thing about hellfire. S3 goes really far and you don't need to run to combo it. A dash cancel works just as well. The only other run cancel character with something like this is cage and his is 1,2 which doesn't go nearly as far. And even if he didn't have it, scorpion has so many other tools he can still combo from meterlessly and pressure. That's the main thing that hit there other characters

100% agree with this, scorpion is a better core character even without fbrc stuff being in the mix. Thats true about stand 3 only needing a dash cancel to combo too, yet another reason why he was much less hurt by the stamina changes.

 

[Invincible Salads]

dash cancel as in, canceling out of fireball without using run from s3 nets u a combo? didnt know that.


also, even still, i wish they didnt hurt run cancelling so much, i wish 2 reps was still a thing.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

dash cancel as in, canceling out of fireball without using run from s3 nets u a combo? didnt know that.


also, even still, i wish they didnt hurt run cancelling so much, i wish 2 reps was still a thing.

I also have this doubt, can you FRC with a dash and still connect? Also I was under the impression that every character that has a run cancel can only cancel once? Can anyone clarify this for me?

 

[tatterbug4]

Been playing mostly hellfire the past 2 weeks. I think hellfire is better then ninjustsu personally.

 

[Matix218]

I also have this doubt, can you FRC with a dash and still connect? Also I was under the impression that every character that has a run cancel can only cancel once? Can anyone clarify this for me?

On hit you can connect a 214 after a standing 3 fireball dash-cancel, check out red raptors new "optimal" hellfire combo thread in the scorpion forums.

 

[Asodimazze]

Arguably top 5, surely top 10...I guess hellfire made it

 

[Matix218]

Arguably top 5, surely top 10...I guess hellfire made it

It's weird though, no one is saying anything about scorpion in general being arguably top 5 and surely top 10. It seems like everyone who I play or talk too thinks he is really good but in that top 5 thread recently I even said that I think he is in the conversation but no one else seemed to think so. And I personally think Ninjutsu is in that same conversation too.

 

[ArmedCalf]

Flame Aura is fucking ridiculous - I'm getting shirts made to stress this point. People say you can just throw Hell Sparks out but this shit is literally the definition of, "Oh I'm in the neutral? Lol eat my risk free, unable to be whiff punished by normals, AAing, combo into restand, DoT BUFF."

.....I mean he has a bunch of other super good shit as well but man Flame Aura....geeze...

 

[ILuvFightGames]

Flame Aura is fucking ridiculous - I'm getting shirts made to stress this point. People say you can just throw Hell Sparks out but this shit is literally the definition of, "Oh I'm in the neutral? Lol eat my risk free, unable to be whiff punished by normals, AAing, combo into restand, DoT BUFF."

.....I mean he has a bunch of other super good shit as well but man Flame Aura....geeze...

His flame aura is that good?

 

[Mista_Snacks]

His flame aura is that good?

Flame aura is fucking retarded

 

[ArmedCalf]

Like it honestly could be just me/online/something else, maybe I need to lab it more or whatever - but that move is so infuriating.

 

[HuttonMD]

Like it honestly could be just me/online/something else, maybe I need to lab it more or whatever - but that move is so infuriating.

Online definitely makes it harder to punish because if your a little to early you get caught and little to late I can block. The best is when I activate it right before someone jumps and I still catch the jip, I can hear the salt when that happens lol

 

[CrazyFingers]

Short answer. This character is possibly top 15. You made it.

 

[TyCarter35]

It's weird though, no one is saying anything about scorpion in general being arguably top 5 and surely top 10. It seems like everyone who I play or talk too thinks he is really good but in that top 5 thread recently I even said that I think he is in the conversation but no one else seemed to think so. And I personally think Ninjutsu is in that same conversation too.

I think it may have to do with the fact that we get a bad rep for having a lot of "scrubs" that play the character and that he's extremely basic for the most part and the Ryu Syndrome where everyone "knows" the MU. Also other top tiers like Kitana, Mystic Ermac, GM Sub takes some of the attention away from Scorpion imo. that's just my theory

 

[Asodimazze]

It's weird though, no one is saying anything about scorpion in general being arguably top 5 and surely top 10. It seems like everyone who I play or talk too thinks he is really good but in that top 5 thread recently I even said that I think he is in the conversation but no one else seemed to think so. And I personally think Ninjutsu is in that same conversation too.

To me it seems like USA and EU have different views on the tier lists....it might be because some characters are not represented well enough in one of the 2 regions. Luckily enough, we got Murko and Jinamounainai in EU.

Hellfire is incredibly strong. Among the other things, he has:

1) Insane damage. He is surely one of the most damaging characters in the entire game, ends every combo into restand and still gets a blockstring after (with added aura damage) or a throw attempt, or a mixup attempt.

2) Amazing pokes, normals, pressure, throw. He has a 6f d1, one of the best d4, an amazing d3 which is just -3 on block. S3 is 100% insane: 7f, +2 on block, great blockstun, absurd damage on hit (40% +). His throw leaves him so much plus that guarantees unbreakable damage with an EX unblockable follow up, one of the best throws in the whole game. His jump ins don't need to be described, (jk3 is the best jump kick in MKX). He gets blockstrings after many of his strings despite the 2f nerf...it takes skill to execute it, but his pressure is still super super good.

3) Stupid specials. Flame Aura is extremely dumb. Not only it is "safeish" on block (some characters can't punish it if they aren't at 0 distance, and the blockstun is super weird anyway), it's unpunishable on whiff. Its hitbox is one of the stupidest in the whole game, stays active far more than the animation suggests, restands, starts a combo (again, easily 40% +), anti airs everything, gives Scorpion a nice damage buff. Isn't it far too much? It's stupid that Scorpion can cancel anything into aura and if the opponent tries to counterpoke he eats 40%+, whilst Scorpion stays almost safe...he forces you do take a bet that is almost always in his favour. I would be happy with just a hitbox adjustment.

Also, his teleport is stupid as well, surely the best meterless wake up in the game. He vanishes from the screen after just 7f, and can stay safe using stamina...that move is way too slippery, a lot of times he simply passes through strings when you are pressuring him on wake up. Doesn't make much sense to me....imho he should stay on screen far more, like any other teleport.

He is a super character, no doubt.

 

[Tweedy]

Please play Black aka Frozen Acid if you think NA lacks Hellfire.

His PSN is NPAB-Frozen-Acid

Red Raptor also plays Hellfire, but Black is even better than Raptor with the character imo. Not that Raptor isn't great, Scorpion is like his 3rd character.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Please play Black aka Frozen Acid if you think NA lacks Hellfire.

His PSN is NPAB-Frozen-Acid

Red Raptor also plays Hellfire, but Black is even better than Raptor with the character imo. Not that Raptor isn't great, Scorpion is like his 3rd character.

Any form of doubt that Hellfire was absurdly strong completely disappeared when I saw Frozen Acid on Kombat Cup. Man is a MONSTER on this dumb character.

 

[Asodimazze]

Please play Black aka Frozen Acid if you think NA lacks Hellfire.

His PSN is NPAB-Frozen-Acid

I can only play vs EU, and to be honest I don't know if NA lacks amazing hellfires (but I would be surprised if anyone comes close to Murko). I thought it could be the reason of why not much people consider him in the top 5 discussion....but if you have some, that's good I guess

 

[Tweedy]

I can only play vs EU, and to be honest I don't know if NA lacks amazing hellfires (but I would be surprised if anyone comes close to Murko). I thought it could be the reason of why not much people consider him in the top 5 discussion....but if you have some, that's good I guess

I guarantee Black is better than Murko or Jino.

 

[CrazyFingers]

I can only play vs EU, and to be honest I don't know if NA lacks amazing hellfires (but I would be surprised if anyone comes close to Murko). I thought it could be the reason of why not much people consider him in the top 5 discussion....but if you have some, that's good I guess

Yea we have some pretty good Hellfire players over here. I've only seen a bit of Murko's work but he seems like a stellar player for sure.

 

[Asodimazze]

I guarantee Black is better than Murko or Jino.

I don't see the point of this useless comparison, they'll never play against each other and play against totally different people. To each his own