Question - Hellfire Did Hellfire deserve to be destroyed so badly?

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Of course there is. Its like that for every character. Do you want a block infinite?

Liu kang

 

[DrManhattan]

Stop comparing pre-patch scorpion to cage as if they were equals . Cage needs his cancels , hellfire is still fine without them.

Pretty sure this is the dumbest thing I have read on here in awhile. Hell fire needed that. It was is core. Why is cage allowed to have it an hellfire does not?

If u can't see how much this changed him then I don't know what to tell U. Had great pressure ... Now... He has random teleports lol

 

[God Confirm]

Pretty sure this is the dumbest thing I have read on here in awhile. Hell fire needed that. It was is core. Why is cage allowed to have it an hellfire does not?

If u can't see how much this changed him then I don't know what to tell U. Had great pressure ... Now... He has random teleports lol

lol

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Pretty sure this is the dumbest thing I have read on here in awhile. Hell fire needed that. It was is core. Why is cage allowed to have it an hellfire does not?

If u can't see how much this changed him then I don't know what to tell U. Had great pressure ... Now... He has random teleports lol

Scorpion didn't need 40+% combos into aura that led into 15+% true blockstrings lol. And before you say "take the hit on 214" that's asking to eat an EX Spear to get put essentially in the same situation.

Saying he didn't need to get toned down is a little ridiculous.

 

[God Confirm]

Hes really freaking good still I don't know what people are talking about

 

[JTB123]

We all heard the tales of old, broken, stupid OP Hellfire

This is actually the issue right here, a lot of people actually thought pre patch HF was "OP broken Kaballin' put the controller down because you lost at the character select screen boyz!".

Instead of actually labbing the character and discovering his weaknesses which when combined with the excessive nerfs have made him into what he is now.

He definitely needed some adjustments, but not to the degree that were done. Especially when you consider what other characters have and more importantly still have now.

 

[Error404]

Pretty sure this is the dumbest thing I have read on here in awhile. Hell fire needed that. It was is core. Why is cage allowed to have it an hellfire does not?

If u can't see how much this changed him then I don't know what to tell U. Had great pressure ... Now... He has random teleports lol

His "core" gave him 20% block strings . Cage without bar get 6-7% at most and they still have gaps. Also hellfire has way more damage. In reality a-list used to be a shittier hellfire scorpion. Now it's even.

 

[Eddy Wang]

His "core" gave him 20% block strings . Cage without bar get 6-7% at most and they still have gaps. Also hellfire has way more damage. In reality a-list used to be a shittier hellfire scorpion. Now it's even.

I honestly don't think it is.

Scorpion lost his must useful string to do juggle damage, lost the ability to use two flame auras, and lost his pressure.

I could care less if they nerfed his pressure, but the 214 string was his only consistent juggle filler, and now he doesn't have that anymore, consequently this nerf translated into the entire character, all his variations got crippled due the cancel of that one string.

 

[STRYKIE]

His "core" gave him 20% block strings . Cage without bar get 6-7% at most and they still have gaps. Also hellfire has way more damage. In reality a-list used to be a shittier hellfire scorpion. Now it's even.

Enjoying that jailing overhead and whiff cancellable 11f advancing mid that gives you any blockstring of your choice even if it is blocked? Scorpion never has.

That's without even mentioning armor options.... Can Cage be negative on hit after EX nutpunch? How does that sound to you?

Oh, and show me the accumulation of this "20% blockstring" sir. Don't come in our forum and think you can pull numbers out of your ass.

 

[Error404]

I honestly don't think it is.

Scorpion lost his must useful string to do juggle damage, lost the ability to use two flame auras, and lost his pressure.

I could care less if they nerfed his pressure, but the 214 string was his only consistent juggle filler, and now he doesn't have that anymore, consequently this nerf translated into the entire character, all his variations got crippled due the cancel of that one string.

I only said that his pressure was BS , I actually agree that 214 nerf was harsh because it hurt his other variations too.

 

[JTB123]

Oh, and show me the accumulation of this "20% blockstring" sir. Don't come in our forum and think you can pull numbers out of your ass.

I actually love how every anti Scorpion zealot has a different number for his block damage lol

 

[Error404]

Enjoying that jailing overhead and whiff cancellable 11f advancing mid that gives you any blockstring of your choice even if it is blocked? Scorpion never has.

That's without even mentioning armor options.... Can Cage be negative on hit after EX nutpunch? How does that sound to you?

Oh, and show me the accumulation of this "20% blockstring" sir. Don't come in our forum and think you can pull numbers out of your ass.

Ok it wasn't 20 it was 15 which wasn't much better. And don't you talk to me as if Scorpion doesn't have faster pokes , a faster jab , way better air normals , more damage and on top of all of that can start his pressure from a teleport from full screen. Yeah Cages f3 pretty much does everything apart from curing cancer , and i'm not saying cage is bad in any way . However that doesn't mean pre-patch Scorpion wasn't much better.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Ok it wasn't 20 it was 15 which wasn't much better. And don't you talk to me as if Scorpion doesn't have faster pokes , a faster jab , way better air normals , more damage and on top of all of that can start his pressure from a teleport from full screen. Yeah Cages f3 pretty much does everything apart from curing cancer , and i'm not saying cage is bad in any way . However that doesn't mean pre-patch Scorpion wasn't much better.

Scorpion doesn't have an armored launcher

 

[Xzyj]

Honestly the only things i miss is prepatch 214 and 2 flame auras in combo (just for cool combos sake), his pressure is still good after the patch, just not guaranteed (which i like, forces you to think).

I started to use a lot of 114 instead of 214 now, just for the sake of stability in combos, but unfortunately 114 forces damage to scale more and because of that he has even less damaging combos if you want stability.

214 nerf sucks man, and besides it's instability it's -14 on block now, just come on.

 

[STRYKIE]

Ok it wasn't 20 it was 15 which wasn't much better. And don't you talk to me as if Scorpion doesn't have faster pokes , a faster jab , way better air normals , more damage and on top of all of that can start his pressure from a teleport from full screen. Yeah Cages f3 pretty much does everything apart from curing cancer , and i'm not saying cage is bad in any way . However that doesn't mean pre-patch Scorpion wasn't much better.

It was actually 13.05%. I'm not trying to be over-meticulous for the sake of it, I've already had Dragon's Fire players try to engage of the argument of "well at least he doesn't do as much chip as pre-patch Hellfire!" and I personally showed them they were wrong.

Scorpion's/Cage's fastest standing jab are both 9 frames. Matter of fact, A-List can link a full combo from it with a DASH cancel without even needing to run, Hellfire can not.

Scorpion's D4 may be faster but no options are guaranteed from a max range D4 outside of Ninjutsu (which is irrelevant here), Cage will always at bare minimum get a F3.

The only way Scorpion's teleport can reasonably be expected to be used in neutral is on reaction to a projectile. That is 100% the opponent's prerogative.

I'm also not saying this in respect to how good/bad either character is, but a lot of Scorpion's fundamental issues that he has now, people like to act as if they magically weren't there with the old 214 properties. It's entirely possible that people were wrong and jumped the gun early in the game's life. Kung Jin hasn't changed all that much and yet you rarely see him in anyone's top 10 anymore.

 

[STRYKIE]

214 nerf sucks man, and besides it's instability it's -14 on block now, just come on.

For the record it was always -14 on block.

I actually love how every anti Scorpion zealot has a different number for his block damage lol

 

[SaSSolino]

Pls no

Liu better come to the grave with a list if he gets nerfed for no reason

I like the idea of the nerf for both!

 

[Wigy]

I like the idea of the nerf for both!

JC is fine.

 

[REDRUM]

ask this question to Sub Zero's family

 

[Phosferrax]

Johnny Cage players, most of you excessively downplay your own character without a lot of knowledge of him, please don't try to act as if you know enough about Scorpion to actually make insightful or relevant points.

 

[Rocket]

Johnny Cage players, most of you excessively downplay your own character without a lot of knowledge of him, please don't try to act as if you know enough about Scorpion to actually make insightful or relevant points.

The only thing that i can see wrong with cage is his anti-gravity boots.

 

[JTB123]

Johnny Cage players, most of you excessively downplay your own character without a lot of knowledge of him, please don't try to act as if you know enough about Scorpion to actually make insightful or relevant points.

I just cannot like this enough.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Pretty sure this is the dumbest thing I have read on here in awhile. Hell fire needed that. It was is core. Why is cage allowed to have it an hellfire does not?

If u can't see how much this changed him then I don't know what to tell U. Had great pressure ... Now... He has random teleports lol

If you take away cage's cancels he's dead he's just dead.He has shit normals shit antiairs one footsie and another d4 footsie and pressure!That's basically it if you take out that pressure.HE IS DEAD.People like you have no fucking clue about the character and still want to nerf him smh.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

JC is fine.

May you live in heaven

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Enjoying that jailing overhead and whiff cancellable 11f advancing mid that gives you any blockstring of your choice even if it is blocked? Scorpion never has.

That's without even mentioning armor options.... Can Cage be negative on hit after EX nutpunch? How does that sound to you?

Oh, and show me the accumulation of this "20% blockstring" sir. Don't come in our forum and think you can pull numbers out of your ass.

Which leads to 8-10% chip.......You have no clue about johnny cage, y'know what fuck it I don't give a shit if they NERF JC they probably will....Because "oh bro johnny cage so op dat 11f2 mixups and 113"Yeah have fun trying to open players up with that shit.