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Deoxys new Tier List

DoDaMuSiC

Ermac ftw
Shao lower than Kotal? Sub-Zero beating Cassie? Liu Kang is considered the best character and Kitana's top 10? LOL, yeah not even feeling this one. Minus the Kollector being high on his list, Rooflemonger continues to put to shame these "top tier" players and makes great points in it that makes the utmost sense.

I think these tier lists from this game should open our eyes to the single fact that these top tier players are a bunch of schiesse...
Which part of “not in order” didnt you understand?
 

sub_on_dubs

Online Scrub Lord
I find it interesting that even the pros dont agree entirely on where to place certain characters. Definitely agree with this more than Sonic's tier list.
 
Anyone who thinks Cage beats Kang is delusional, and if they're a pro player they should just resign and pick up solitaire.

It was explained countless times in the Cage thread with clear examples and logic.

Surely those 57 Cage counterpicks we saw at dreamhack to counter liu kang mean something.

Everyone knew Kang whiffed on Cage since day 1, that ignorant video posted above shows day 1 tech. Yet nobody actually beat pro players using Kang with Cage in tournaments, ever, so stfu .
I also dont think Cage beat Kang for sure. But who im who is SonicFox.

SonicFox also said he didnt use Kang, cause he is boring asf.

People should start to understand, that tier list and balance are made trhough highest possible level.
Tho even pre-patch, where Kombat was using Johnny as his main, there was ft10 between him and ninja, and Kombat used Baraka and totally outplay him.
The hype for ninja is big, but i want to see this guy using tooned down Kang, lets said who is on Jade level now, and then to see how good he really is.
Cause right now atleast i give little credit to Kang players.
 
Sonic also said Frost and some other low tier shitbird beats Liu and said he'd be using the head bomb variation against him moving forward. As always, listen to what Sonic does and not what he says else we believe Kotal was ever A tier and Sub-Zero was a terrible character at any point of this game.

He's rife with hot-take opinions. NW top 3 bare minimum boyzzzz.
 

Thingy

Retired account
Jax needs to be in his "NRS PLEASE" tier. Jade and Kollector needs to be put in the Balanced catagory. Adding Nightwolf to a tier list while being out for just a little over a month is dumb. Give it time. Those are my only complaints.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Obviously Jade needs help in a lit of places and hope many things get fixed for her
Yes, thank you.

but she is strong in that variation. She has the ability to turn every button she has into +3 on block with the run cancel kick. This is very strong for pressure and mind games and snowballing. It costs a bar but she can add several layers to it making opponents respect the possible plus frames because the threat is always there. This means unsafe moves can become safe from conditioning when normally not and she still has glow to counter zone and apply pressure vs characters more zoning based.
Let me correct you there.

1. Jaded is her weaker variation. Sonic uses it because he's THE BEST there is at MK right now and he knows that he can outplay people. Emerald is by far the better, stronger variation overall because Air Glaive is one of the top 5 most dominant tools in the game. On meterburn it's plus one million on block so there is literally no reason to use Jaded and be +3.
The reason Sonic prefers Jaded is that he likes mindgames and setplay and that Air Glaive cannot be cancelled into while Normal Glaive has a gigantic gap in the meterburn so you just get D2'd on reaction for trying to use it.
2. That +3 for 1 bar on a High is nothing to write home about if you aren't The God Of Setplay and got so many layers of yomi that your yomi has yomi layers like Sonic does. Jade has no followups that guarantee her anything on +3 unlike Liu, Erron or Geras who can keep coming at you and cash out. It takes someone of that skill level to make this character work so no, Jade is not very strong and Jaded is definitely her weaker variation.


Was and Sonic are advocating to fix her bugs and hitbox issues and a few strings that make dome things out of her favor but its taking time to find where characters are after this game breaking OS and the changes from last patch.
The OS will get patched, I'm fairly sure it's unintentional because it makes moves that were intended to be unsafe, safe. Block safety is a balancing factor and bypassing it is game breaking. This is a simple fact.

Anyways I think if anyone can show what a pressure variation is capable of its Sonic. And we shall see. He is claiming hes gonna main her?
He said he'll keep playing her. Doesn't mean he'll main her and he knows better than to enter a major with such an incomplete character, though there is hope yet because he did play D'Vorah. Chances are, though, that he'll not try to play Jade against Liu. That's a 6-4 at the most, but it might be a 7-3 simply because of how Jade can't really do much about him right now.
 
LOL SONIC

Back in injustice 2 days Sonic won with vanilla Cold which was trash tier, because people literally let go of block during f23 freeze non stop for whatever braindead reason.

However I can't wait to see how they pick up Cage and get vaporized by Kang, lol 7-3 AHAHHAHAHAHAH
I dont believe that as well. As i said even Kombat didnt use Cage against Kang, and that was pre-patch.

SonicFox is obviously the guy that knows the game best, but i agree sometimes his statement are just lol. He sometimes said some strange stuff, and there is times where i agree with him, esp. when you see him explain why he thinks like that, but sometimes its just like he is trolling or just throw wild stuff that are simply not even close to reality.
 

Parasurama

Dragon
So you have been making all these posts about Kang and you don't know how Johnny Cage is bad match up for Liu Kang?
I just find this interesting. I thought you would know more about Liu Kang than most people.

There was a video of some "pro" explain why Kang is so OP. He said that you litteraly need 10 minutes in the lab with the character and you are ready to go, and can beat players way above your level. He even said this is true even at Pro ranks, which mean a player that is obviously a lot lower level can up for that with the character and levels things up.

As far as Jade goes, she really isnt anything special at pro ranks. SonicFox give her a try, and lost 10-1 to ninja Kang with her.
Jade is so call "zoning character", yet Sonic could not do a s**** against Kang. Has is that fair? :D
The moment you are trying to use Dodging Shadows Flying Dragon Kick will wipe your **** in the face.
But still SonicFox said he will continue to use her, so he obviously see something in her.

SonicFox also said Johnny Cage is the man to counter Liu Kang, what you guy think ?
I think high damage character have bigger chance against Kang, compare to character like Jade or Dvorah with small damage and you need to open him like 10 times, which you will need to totally outplay him in order to beat him.
I think Baraka is one of the characters that have good chances against Kang.
 
Firstable SonicFox and SylverRye said that, not me.:D
As i said i dont think so. You should have read my entire posts. As i said even KombatKiller decide to use Baraka against ninja in ft10. So he obviously think that Cage is not the character to go against Kang, atleast pre-patch.
Through Johnny Cage have good string with good range, still Liu is upgraded version of Johnny Cage. And whatever Johnny have, Liu have something better. The only thing Johnny have on Liu is the range.
And i also dont agree with SylverRye even a bit, that Johnny beat him in zoning, Kang destroys him.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
The OS will get patched, I'm fairly sure it's unintentional because it makes moves that were intended to be unsafe, safe. Block safety is a balancing factor and bypassing it is game breaking. This is a simple fact.
I'm starting to think it won't get patched. Very important names are showing most of the OS's from raptors new tech all have counterplay.
Sonya's B123 OS has counterplay.
Every CMD Grab OS has counterplay
UltraDavid and Even raptor has been vocal they want it to stay for a while until its proved its actually game breaking. Raptor and UltraDavid both work closely with NRS so I'm sure that they will listen to their pleas.

I thought many would be broke at first until Ultra David showed me a few things:



He also said most of them are counter able and this isn't new and Paulo had it in MK since MK4.

So I'm not so sure it will be gone. Probably something you should learn.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
I'm starting to think it won't get patched. Very important names are showing most of the OS's from raptors new tech all have counterplay.
Sonya's B123 OS has counterplay.
Every CMD Grab OS has counterplay
UltraDavid and Even raptor has been vocal they want it to stay for a while until its proved its actually game breaking. Raptor and UltraDavid both work closely with NRS so I'm sure that they will listen to their pleas.

I thought many would be broke at first until Ultra David showed me a few things:



He also said most of them are counter able and this isn't new and Paulo had it in MK since MK4.

So I'm not so sure it will be gone. Probably something you should learn.
Oh I'm going to figure out how to do Jade's B3 OS for sure.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
I also dont think Cage beat Kang for sure. But who im who is SonicFox.

SonicFox also said he didnt use Kang, cause he is boring asf.

People should start to understand, that tier list and balance are made trhough highest possible level.
Tho even pre-patch, where Kombat was using Johnny as his main, there was ft10 between him and ninja, and Kombat used Baraka and totally outplay him.
The hype for ninja is big, but i want to see this guy using tooned down Kang, lets said who is on Jade level now, and then to see how good he really is.
Cause right now atleast i give little credit to Kang players.
Johnny has the tools to beat Kang, more so than a LOT of other characters. You know what the difference maker is though? Reads. You make good reads, you can definitely win, but you have to make a lot of them. One bad read could mean losing half your health bar. Sonic Fox is special in that he has a talent for good reads and decision making. That doesn't mean Cage beats Kang, it means Sonic Fox is a fucking phenom.

On paper, it's a 5-5. In practice, it's more like 4-6 for Cage. What fucking Cage player is going to stand block F4 when Kang can just do a low starter into combo? Come the fuck on.
 
Which part of “not in order” didnt you understand?
Oh I'm sorry but where in the hell did you SEE "not in order" at on the initial post for Deoxys' post? You don't so this as far as I know is IN the ORDER; if not, why else publish an incomplete list?
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Oh I'm sorry but where in the hell did you SEE "not in order" at on the initial post for Deoxys' post? You don't so this as far as I know is IN the ORDER; if not, why else publish an incomplete list?
No one should be yelling at you over it but yes Deoxys said the tier list is not in order below his Twitter post in the replies.
Everyone should look at the comments because he also answered several questions about character placing.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Johnny has the tools to beat Kang, more so than a LOT of other characters. You know what the difference maker is though? Reads. You make good reads, you can definitely win, but you have to make a lot of them. One bad read could mean losing half your health bar. Sonic Fox is special in that he has a talent for good reads and decision making. That doesn't mean Cage beats Kang, it means Sonic Fox is a fucking phenom.

On paper, it's a 5-5. In practice, it's more like 4-6 for Cage. What fucking Cage player is going to stand block F4 when Kang can just do a low starter into combo? Come the fuck on.
I think a lot of what you said in this post is accurate.
With that said:
I feel every character has to make reads. MU numbers like 7-3 Johnny is based off highest level of play between the two characters, assuming reads, skill ate identical. Because reads, guess situations can make S tier characters lose to C tier characters.

I am not the best Johnny in the world probably even just mediocre and play other characters more. But based off tools, hitboxes and tech I feel Johnny has a lot going for him in this matchup.
His normal BS hitbox issues are for the most part non existent vs Kang and the shoe is on the other foot. Kang's: 212/B34/F43/12 & Fireballs all wiff on Johnny when crouch blocking in some form or fashion. This is huge.
Johnny can outspace every move Kang has and his forceballs are faster than Kang's fireball, johnny can abuse footsie range and Shimmy him all day. Liu has some of the best tools in the game but we have to consider many of them wiff on him and LK doesn't do well from footsie range.
Kombat one of the best johnnys said its in his favor and Sonic, Rewind, SylverRye, Foxy and others said the same with Sonic listing it as 7-3 in johnnys favor.

I'd like to think these players know the matchup and how to play the matchup at the highest level. Kombat was the only one to beat Sonic with Johnny.
 

Parasurama

Dragon
Firstable SonicFox and SylverRye said that, not me.:D
As i said i dont think so. You should have read my entire posts. As i said even KombatKiller decide to use Baraka against ninja in ft10. So he obviously think that Cage is not the character to go against Kang, atleast pre-patch.
Through Johnny Cage have good string with good range, still Liu is upgraded version of Johnny Cage. And whatever Johnny have, Liu have something better. The only thing Johnny have on Liu is the range.
And i also dont agree with SylverRye even a bit, that Johnny beat him in zoning, Kang destroys him.
What I am saying is that it is a bad match up. Ninjakilla said it too. It is just interesting that you don’t know why.. (I don’t mean it in a bad way- just interesting after all your research).
 
With all due respect to ninjakilla, his skills are insane, but the kids are using broken character both in MK10 and now in MK11. He said its because he love you Kang, and thats why he is playing him, im allright with that. But he also said that there is nothing wrong with Kang and he is not top character, and its all becuse of SonicFox and his tier list.:D
If he really think that he is 100% delusional.
But lets see if he will continue playing Kang, if they nerf him to the ground, and right now Liu Kang deserve exactly that.

I already said what Johnny Cage over Kang, and i know this matchup. Maybe Johnny have a bit faster projectile, but his both projectile are high. Also Johnny amplify give him second projectile, while Liu high gives him 3, and Kang amplifying its faster than Johnny one, in terms of speed. But Kang always going to beat Johnny to the punch and will have upper hand in that matchup.
 

Toruko61

Noob
Scrub-zero mains whining and bitching all day long about liu kang while they lame u to death with their 50/50 gimmick jik.
There should be a saltmancer skin for scrub zero to reflect his player base.


The last comment of @lordlosh shows which agenda they follow.
It's not about balancing liu kang, it's about nerfing him to the ground.
Liu kang wasn't in the op tier pre patch and ninja still played him while the furry overlord played jassie and jacqui.
Go figure who the flavour of the month player is.
 
Oh buthurt Kang player ....
With your comment you just show how bad you are in the game if you cant handle a character that is not even top 10.
And Kang was top tier before the patch. Some people just not use him properly, and play him to his big strength, he was underplayed, but he still have all of his tools. Tho ninja back then was still a monster with him.
And yeah totally broken character deserve that, so they feel the pain of the others.