Video/Tutorial - Cyber Sub-Zero Defending against CSZ B3D4 Ice Bomb hard to blockable after a corner knockdown

[Tom Brady]

You can counter the just frame hard to blockable with a delay tech roll if they do the B+3 too early. I have another set up that forces them to block the just frame hard to blockable if you read that they will do a delay wake up.

All you have to do is slightly delay the B+3. It's literally a one frame window from the overhead to low transition and in the heat of the battle this is extremely hard to block consistently. If you're off by this one single frame, you're eating about 40% and back in the blender.

But if you delay the B3 to make sure the delayed wake up blocks it rather then just the last hit, the opponent can do a quick get up and jump over the B3. I understand that its all a guess. I was just saying that you can actually escape if you guess right as opposed to Quan where you guess right but get hit anyways.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

I haven't seen title, i haven't seen op, or read op.


I just saw tom brady posted this today, so Tom Brady is my savior.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Also news flash, Cyrax gets the exact same corner setup with 1112 into bomb into b3d4 d0h

Can cyber-sub mains or cyber-sub defenders please say a sentence without referring to, or saying "cyrax has the same thing and he needs nerfs"
Un-watches thread.
Hides.
Never comes back.

 

[REO]

But if you delay the B3 to make sure the delayed wake up blocks it rather then just the last hit, the opponent can do a quick get up and jump over the B3. I understand that its all a guess. I was just saying that you can actually escape if you guess right as opposed to Quan where you guess right but get hit anyways.

Then I'll just do the early B+3 and then you eat 40% and are in the same situation. I understand it's all a guess. There's ways to block the overhead, the low, jump the throw, etc. And Quan never had any true unblockables. He just had just-frame blocks between low and overheads which is what CSZ has to some extent.

Any option in this game can be countered by another option. It still doesn't mean it's not insanely good.

Point of my CSZ tech was the opponent has to make a hard read and guess 1 out of 5 different options which is why CSZ setplay and mix-ups are so good.

 

[omooba]

never thought i'd say this but PRAISE ALMIGHTY BWAIDEY!!!!!!!

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

never thought i'd say this but PRAISE ALMIGHTY BWAIDEY!!!!!!!

Praise Lord Brady.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I'm not saying nerf it or whatever because its all too new, but going off what I'm seeing here this still looks broken, I mean best case scenario you still gotta guess correctly on multiple guessing games just block. Cyber sub is limited by any of the things Quan is and he doesn't have his ridiculous mix-ups anymore... this seems bad. INB4 "but Cyrax has it too", yes, he does, and I'll say it in Cyrax threads as well. That being said it doesn't look like Cyrax gets as much off it, or has as much outside of it as CSZ does, so meh

 

[omooba]

it doesn't look like Cyrax gets as much off it, or has as much outside of it as CSZ does, so meh

sub can't combo off just frame low to overhead and overhea to low. or at least it hasn't been shown that he can. maybe off b2? but even then he's did the plus frames off a poke. cyrax just loops this

 

[Jacob aka jb]

Hold on Tom, I was told that these were nigh unblockable setups. Are you telling me that you spent some time in the lab and learned how to defend against it?

Unheard of.

Comment of the year right here. Finally a non crybaby. I thought i would never see the day. I hope the actual crybabies in these forums (for every character, not just CZ) looks at this, and see that with practice mode, dedication, and time, you too will be ready to fight against said setups, and not get your asskicked. Then in return stops all of these crybabies complaining about OP this and nerf that, how their character can't do this, or their character needs that. Because they will actually take the knowledge, experience, and skill to actually succeed. Seriously its like 70 percent of this community are babies that need their baby bottle, then they still go whaaa whaaa whaaa even after they got their bottle (aka buffs) because they still got their asses kicked.

 

[xWildx]

It took this community like a year to block Earthshaker.

 

[Ns_Brutalmileena]

 

[I GOT HANDS]

sub can't combo off just frame low to overhead and overhea to low. or at least it hasn't been shown that he can. maybe off b2? but even then he's did the plus frames off a poke. cyrax just loops this

yeah you know what you're right, I don't even want to get into which one is worse

At the very least though Cyrax has less OUTSIDE of this shit

 

[kabelfritz]

Comment of the year right here. Finally a non crybaby. I thought i would never see the day. I hope the actual crybabies in these forums (for every character, not just CZ) looks at this, and see that with practice mode, dedication, and time, you too will be ready to fight against said setups, and not get your asskicked. Then in return stops all of these crybabies complaining about OP this and nerf that, how their character can't do this, or their character needs that. Because they will actually take the knowledge, experience, and skill to actually succeed. Seriously its like 70 percent of this community are babies that need their baby bottle, then they still go whaaa whaaa whaaa even after they got their bottle (aka buffs) because they still got their asses kicked.

^^quan chi and now cyber sub main.

if all problems were solved with this tech, fine, and i appreciate people finding workarounds. but then there is the concept of advantage. CSZ Players will lab and find counter strategies so he will remain just as strong.

 

[BigMacMcLovin]

I appreciate what Tom is doing here but the fact remains that this is insanely broken. This kind of stuff shouldn't exist for any character.
So you learn to block each set up in its own little way, CSZ just has to make the slightest adjustment and your taken for another ride costing you another 40%. It is ridiculously brain dead. You really do not have to think about it, just deploy bomb and press buttons.

I sincerely hope it is a massive oversight by NRS.

 

[Linkuei82]

I think a lot of people in this thread is going to have a huge awakening come tournament time.

 

[villainous monk]

^^quan chi and now cyber sub main.

if all problems were solved with this tech, fine, and i appreciate people finding workarounds. but then there is the concept of advantage. CSZ Players will lab and find counter strategies so he will remain just as strong.

No offense but is that not part of why we play? To study. Learn. Master. Get defeated and then repeat process?

 

[buyacushun]

So you still have to guess which mixup CSZ is going to use and then HOW he is going to use it?

I appreciate the attempt but not really much of a video. I guess the best part was saying block stop can help.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

People see that there is a way to block this ONE setup and are like "see? Not too bad!"

Ummmm, we still have divekick to worry about. Especially since divekick is safe on block so even if you, by the grace of God, manage to block it...you still can not punish.

 

[kabelfritz]

No offense but is that not part of why we play? To study. Learn. Master. Get defeated and then repeat process?

of course, but only to a certain degree. you will never outrun a plane no matter how much you learn and master running. what im saying is that there are moves which are more powerful than the rest and their advantage doesnt vanish by figuring out one counter strategy. imagine there is a tournament who has the most pancakes, and your mom gave you two but the other kid has 5. youre like "fuck it im gonna level up my game", go to the supermarket and buy three more, but when you return the other kid did the same and has now eight, or even ten because he gets them for free in dads pancake factory. thats imo how adapting to cyber sub COULD end up. well its early and things might play out differently but NRS experience tells me they probably wont.

 

[Tom Brady]

Then I'll just do the early B+3 and then you eat 40% and are in the same situation. I understand it's all a guess. There's ways to block the overhead, the low, jump the throw, etc. And Quan never had any true unblockables. He just had just-frame blocks between low and overheads which is what CSZ has to some extent.

Any option in this game can be countered by another option. It still doesn't mean it's not insanely good.

Point of my CSZ tech was the opponent has to make a hard read and guess 1 out of 5 different options which is why CSZ setplay and mix-ups are so good.

100% agree, The opponent has to guess out of several scenarios.

1. You can consistently block the B3D4 overhead then low bomb if you do it meaty so i cant jump by using delayed wake up and just blocking the last hit of the sting then low blocking the bomb.

2. If you delay the B3D4 string to force me to block all 3 hits when I delay wake up, the block become much harder because the block stop is less after blocking the third hit. You can also do a delayed instant Dive Kick which hits me as I attempt to low block the B3. Even if I realize that you are going to delay the attack as I am in my delayed wake up and guess that its going to be in instant Dive Kick, it is still a 1 frame block.

3. If you do however delay B3D4 or instant Dive Kick, I can quick rise and jump over you and punish.

4. If I quick rise and attempt to jump, etc.. You can instant Dive Kick me onto the bomb or meaty B3D4.

5. etc, etc, etc...

These scenarios go on for a while. I was just saying that if you do guess right, you'll escape. There are just A LOT of scenarios to guess out of.

 

[Tom Brady]

So you still have to guess which mixup CSZ is going to use and then HOW he is going to use it?

I appreciate the attempt but not really much of a video. I guess the best part was saying block stop can help.

The point was never that it was easy to guess the exact set up. I was just trying to help with the overhead then low block. Guessing which mix up he'll do and when he'll do it is the hard part.

What helps is delayed wake up forces him to delay. If he does anything meaty when you delay wake up, the overhead then low block isnt hard. If he delayed when you delay wake up, then you're in trouble. But, if he delays and you quick rise, you escape. If he does a meaty follow up as you quick rise, then its trouble. Its all a guess.

 

[DanableLector]

What about ice bomb and dive kick set ups? The dive kick is an overhead that complements b+3 very well. b+1 is another overhead that is -1 on block.

Cassie's easy corner vortex game is gone. Quan Chi's easy vortex is gone. Tanya's easy pressure game is gone. Tremor's easy corner pressure game is gone.

Why should Cyber Sub Zero's easy corner vortex remain, especially when no resources are required?

Normalize this shit by tomorrow morning.

Make dive kick hit mid, and we are done here.

 

[WakeUp DP]

Let's see Tom was against Summoner mix ups/vortex/hard to blockables but he is in favor of Cyber Sub when he has 5 different options within the mix up? lol obvious bias is obvious.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Let's see Tom was against Summoner mix ups/vortex/hard to blockables but he is in favor of Cyber Sub when he has 5 different options within the mix up? lol obvious bias is obvious.

He didn't say it was totally legit he's just saying that guessing right will get you free, where if you guessed right against Quan you weren't out of the woods yet. It's not the same thing.

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

It's dlc, and it's attracting purchases. This isn't staying. Been in the lab, and no biased opinion can rule out the fact that this tech is too monstrous lol. Especially with how the game is evolving as far as character balances and tweaks. There are ways out of it for sure with meter for CERTAIN characters but... in tournament. Good luck at the moment.