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Dear NRS: Why was the Joker Nerfed so badly from Injustice 1?

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
Joker was ass in I1, but I still liked him because I'm stupid and make poor choices.

I wish he didn't return for this game, NRS doesn't seem to know or care what to do with him, and I doubt they will ever give him any meaningful changes.
His spot could have been better used for another I1 character who didn't suck, and would actually get play.
 

Jack White

The Clown Prince of Crime
Joker was ass in I1, but I still liked him because I'm stupid and make poor choices.

I wish he didn't return for this game, NRS doesn't seem to know or care what to do with him, and I doubt they will ever give him any meaningful changes.
His spot could have been better used for another I1 character who didn't suck, and would actually get play.
This is an off topic convo, but hell to the no. Character placement shouldn't be determined by what tier they were in the previous game. Also, cutting the Joker of all characters is idiotic. That's like leaving out Bowser in a Smash game or removing M. Bison from Street Fighter 5. DC's most iconic villain shouldn't go anywhere. Also, you're making it sound like Joker being bad was way out of NRS's hands. They could have buffed him, they could have made him viable, but instead they nerfed the ever loving shit out of him in this game and I have no idea why.

bring back flower as trait and have it mess up controls... easy fix and instant tier jump
That... actually sounds like a pretty good idea. Trait is the flower, there's a cooldown for it every time he uses it, but it works identically to the first game except that when it lands it reverses the opponents controls for a few seconds. That way he could have a decent wake up AND trait, fixing 2 glaring issues for him. They could move the trait he has now to being a gear move and make the flower one his new default.
 

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
This is an off topic convo, but hell to the no. Character placement shouldn't be determined by what tier they were in the previous game. Also, cutting the Joker of all characters is idiotic. That's like leaving out Bowser in a Smash game or removing M. Bison from Street Fighter 5. DC's most iconic villain shouldn't go anywhere. Also, you're making it sound like Joker being bad was way out of NRS's hands. They could have buffed him, they could have made him viable, but instead they nerfed the ever loving shit out of him in this game and I have no idea why.


That... actually sounds like a pretty good idea. Trait is the flower, there's a cooldown for it every time he uses it, but it works identically to the first game except that when it lands it reverses the opponents controls for a few seconds. That way he could have a decent wake up AND trait, fixing 2 glaring issues for him. They could move the trait he has now to being a gear move and make the flower one his new default.
I'm not saying it's out of their hands, I'm saying they don't care, and would rather focus on other characters.
It does't seem like anyone at NRS has any passion for him like they do certain other characters.
Joker is one character that should have seen drastic changes for the new game, instead he was randomly nerfed.
 
@Qwark28

I knew I was missing someone, my bad lol @Maasik how long have you played as the Joker? And if so, at what level do you play him? Because to us joker players that committed to him the past 4 years, all the optimal shit we came up with is either nonexistent to his current move set or nerfed... try playing top or high level players that use legacy characters and know about jokers nerfs, it's an absolute nightmare.

The gave joker a slower parry, that yes does more damage, but is inconsistent.

And while I won't deny joker is a beast in the corner, it takes a lot of skill and execution for joker to do that beast shit in the corner, while characters like batman and black Adam (who has a lightning bomb similar to Jokers Teeth), can get easier pressure with optimal reward.

One well-timed pushblock and joker is back to square one where he struggles...
Don't compare adams orbs to teeth please joker gets so much usage of off his teeth than adam gets off of orb jokers is essential to his gameplan and to ba it isn't even relevant for the most part ....... instead of complaining why the character is bad list what changes he could or should get because there's literally no point in complaining if you aren't listing changes.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Pig seems to disagree with everyone in here and thinks he's mid tier. Apparently some really good Joker players out there. Anyone watch HeyGeorge or BDog play??
 

Jack White

The Clown Prince of Crime
Pig seems to disagree with everyone in here and thinks he's mid tier. Apparently some really good Joker players out there. Anyone watch HeyGeorge or BDog play??
Never trust Pig on anything regarding the Joker. He has always overrated him and said he was "fine" no matter how bad he was. When Injustice 1 launched, Pig said Joker was "secretly" good, but he never stopped whining about how bad Sinestro was until he got buffed like crazy. Pig will only be honest when it comes to his own mains.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Don't compare adams orbs to teeth please joker gets so much usage of off his teeth than adam gets off of orb jokers is essential to his gameplan and to ba it isn't even relevant for the most part ....... instead of complaining why the character is bad list what changes he could or should get because there's literally no point in complaining if you aren't listing changes.

And clearly you haven't read this thread so please go back and read it thoroughly before commenting. Btw sonic fox made great use of orbs at combo breaker against cdjr I believe. Just so you know.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Pig seems to disagree with everyone in here and thinks he's mid tier. Apparently some really good Joker players out there. Anyone watch HeyGeorge or BDog play??
Pig openly stated on his stream a few nights ago he doesn't know much about the joker, so what makes his opinion viable? Again, somebody that tries to argue and ultimately fails. I watched those 2 players play. Half the reason they were winning was because nobody knows the joker MU. Bdog was literally getting away with murder in his set.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Don't compare adams orbs to teeth please joker gets so much usage of off his teeth than adam gets off of orb jokers is essential to his gameplan and to ba it isn't even relevant for the most part ....... instead of complaining why the character is bad list what changes he could or should get because there's literally no point in complaining if you aren't listing changes.
And why in the hell should black Adam have floor bombs? Do you see joker have a strong ass neutral game like adams?
 

Jack White

The Clown Prince of Crime
Dear nrs,

Why is joker even a returning character?
Alright, can we not have this dumb sentiment invading this thread? The Joker is a returning character because he's the freaking Joker. It's like asking why Aquaman or Flash are back. Some characters are ones you should never cut. Bowser was awful in Smash Bros. Melee and Brawl, no one questioned why he was included in Smash 4. There's a reason for that. He's DC's most iconic villain, why on Earth would they exclude him from their biggest fighting game?
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Either everyone is wrong and will be blown up in the future....

...or NRS has decided that Joker is the Dan of the Injustice franchise.
I'm going with the dan of injustice. Believe me, I hope there is some blow up in the future, and if there is, it's going to be after a patch IF NRS even decides to do anything. They have barely done anything to him in the past and right at the start of injustice 2, he was nerfed and made even worse then his injustice 1 version.

My question is why would joker, widely known as the worst character in injustice 1 be nerfed in injustice 2? And this question will probably NEVER get answered because it's simple, the developers and testers of this character are dumbasses.
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
What anti-zoning tools does Black Canary have? Her level 3 trait that gets stuffed by any projectile that moves quicker than the scream?
 

Notez4

Apprentice
I've been doing well with joker so far against some notable players. Things I've noticed is that I can usually go the whole match (win or lose) without doing a bnb. It's all random confirms and gunshots/counterzoning with teeth in front of me the whole time. Pressure when I can get in. And destroy in the corner. He's decent. Mid tier to me. And that's a big jump from bottom 5 in inj1
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
What anti-zoning tools does Black Canary have? Her level 3 trait that gets stuffed by any projectile that moves quicker than the scream?
Wait... doesn't she have decent starters? Decent neutral? A decent trait? Parries? Good damage? Decent normals and combo starters? Does she need anti zoning tools Also? Joker has almost none of the above things I just listed.