Guide Dealing with breath loop - strategies for the whole cast (WIP)

[Mr. Mileena]

When are you guys backdashing? After the 3? Or after the breath?

After the breath.
Raven's backdash sucks. It avoids the next F2 yes, but he's already in your face as you're almost done backdashing, then the 3 is ready to come out. If you try and whiff punish, you can't. That's why I'm saying walking back is better with her. The f2 whiffs and you can react to the 3 coming with more allowed frames since you don't have to worry about recovering from a backdash.

 

[THTB]

The thing that sucks though is that sometimes the 3 will catch you as you backdash (on block) with Raven

Yeah, for Raven, I can imagine this is dumb. For characters who can backdash it, no questions asked, though, it's nowhere near as bad.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Yeah, for Raven, I can imagine this is dumb. For characters who can backdash it, no questions asked, though, it's nowhere near as bad.

With WW it works well, but she can also d3 so she has a ton more options.
With Raven, it's much more difficult to back dash. Her f3/b3 are slow as fuck so sometimes the breath knocks me out of armor lol

 

[THTB]

With WW it works well, but she can also d3 so she has a ton more options.
With Raven, it's much more difficult to back dash. Her f3/b3 are slow as fuck so sometimes the breath knocks me out of armor lol

Her f3 is 29 frames? It's the same as GL's b3 in speed. I have yet to be hit out of the armor with b3, actually, so I find it extremely weird that you'd get hit out of it at times.

 

[BGMD]

damn, posted this in wrong thread

Lobo interrupts f23 breath loop with standing 1, completely stuffs next f2

 

[Doombawkz]

No, come back! We need Bane info!

THERE IS NO BANE INFO

No but really, against f.23 breath its really hard to do anything about the next one. We have venomed double punch, and our backdash will get us out of it by a good margin. Our b.23 also covers a similar distance so if we make the read we can backdash and toss it out for good measure.

 

[insomnia_ftw]

Glad someone finally made a thread like this, hopefully this will help stuff some of the misinformed opinions plaguing the forums.

I'm at work right now, but i'll mess around with Joker's options when I get home. Parry is an obvious one for now.

 

[Axel_Redd]

This is a good idea if he doesnt have meter. If he does he can cancel into MB Breathe for a full combo.

Good thought though

maybe but if he calls it wrong u can punish his ex breath on block right?

 

[WannabePlayer]

I'm testing it out with Ares in practice mode right now and it seems like after a blocked f23, ice breath, if the superman attempts another one, you can neutral jump 2 to make it whiff and full combo. Test it out among yourselves to see if it works for you guys.

Edit: I recorded the AI again just to make sure I try it at different speeds, and it turns out neutral jump gets stuffed, however backwards jump doesn't appear to. Also, if ever the f2 whiffs, if you're in range, you can punish with a 3d2. Dat hitbox.

DownfouralitY
xInfra Deadx
4x4lo8o

 

[4x4lo8o]

WannabePlayer
I can't test right now, but you shouldn't be able to jump out. I've never specifically tested, but holding up is easy to do and I've failed to jump out a ton of times during real matches. I'd guess your timing on f23 is off.
Record f23~breath, f23 and try using Ares 112 or 22 to get out. If it works at all it means your timing wasn't tight enough on the loop. It's pretty hard to get a solid loop recorded because ever since the breath nerf there seems to be different recovery on hit and block and you can't set the dummy to block while you're recording. So you'll record something that seems good but then get a bunch of stance switchs(2+3 is the macro for stance switch) and dumb stuff like that when you play it back.
Once you get a recording that you can't use Ares stand 1 to get out of, then you know you're accurate within a frame or two and can try other stuff.

It's much easier to test with two people, but then you have to repeat a ton of times to make sure things work or don't work consistently and aren't a result of human error

 

[Duck Nation]

WannabePlayer
I can't test right now, but you shouldn't be able to jump out. I've never specifically tested, but holding up is easy to do and I've failed to jump out a ton of times during real matches. I'd guess your timing on f23 is off.
Record f23~breath, f23 and try using Ares 112 or 22 to get out. If it works at all it means your timing wasn't tight enough on the loop. It's pretty hard to get a solid loop recorded because ever since the breath nerf there seems to be different recovery on hit and block and you can't set the dummy to block while you're recording. So you'll record something that seems good but then get a bunch of stance switchs(2+3 is the macro for stance switch) and dumb stuff like that when you play it back.
Once you get a recording that you can't use Ares stand 1 to get out of, then you know you're accurate within a frame or two and can try other stuff.

It's much easier to test with two people, but then you have to repeat a ton of times to make sure things work or don't work consistently and aren't a result of human error

DS can back jump it into combo, so it's not unprecedented. I'll wait for broader confirmation, but that sounds like good stuff.

Got roped into Firefall this afternoon. Will try and remember to update first post after work.

 

[WannabePlayer]

WannabePlayer
It's much easier to test with two people, but then you have to repeat a ton of times to make sure things work or don't work consistently and aren't a result of human error

I'll go over to a friend's house this weekend and try it out.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I'm testing it out with Ares in practice mode right now and it seems like after a blocked f23, ice breath, if the superman attempts another one, you can neutral jump 2 to make it whiff and full combo. Test it out among yourselves to see if it works for you guys.

Edit: I recorded the AI again just to make sure I try it at different speeds, and it turns out neutral jump gets stuffed, however backwards jump doesn't appear to. Also, if ever the f2 whiffs, if you're in range, you can punish with a 3d2. Dat hitbox.

DownfouralitY
xInfra Deadx
4x4lo8o

I don't think it works. Last time I jumped back against a Superman to start a match I ate F23 right in the belfrey.

Ohh I got ya...forgot you mentioned ice breath instead of breath...i'll test that tomorrow.

 

[Duck Nation]

Since d1 is apparently not universal and MB b3/f3 are not, can people tell me whether b3 or f3 works on their individual characters so I can adjust as needed? I know a few people have already established one or the other does not work for their character - is there anyone who can't do either?

 

[Duck Nation]

Also need confirmation on who exactly can backdash it successfully. I know Deathstroke cannot, and I don't think he's alone.

 

[rev0lver]

Lex Luthor

• Corps charge after breath will beat follow-ups

People keep telling me to do this as I eat a 70% combo punish

idk what to do lol

 

[Duck Nation]

Well, it's not a great option. A lot of them aren't. That's what dealing with a pressure character is about, you're not supposed to be able to get out without taking risks.

Can Lex backdash?

 

[Duck Nation]

THERE IS NO BANE INFO

No but really, against f.23 breath its really hard to do anything about the next one. We have venomed double punch, and our backdash will get us out of it by a good margin. Our b.23 also covers a similar distance so if we make the read we can backdash and toss it out for good measure.

Does backdash always work regardless of venom level? Can he do it in zero, 1, 2, 3 and in debuff?

 

[IrishMantis]

This is good.

Solomon MB Trait should beat it

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Catwoman Back3s for free out of breath loops, no meter. Back dash also works.

 

[Duck Nation]

Solomon MB Trait should beat it

Uh, I don't know what that means. What do I write?

 

[Doombawkz]

Does backdash always work regardless of venom level? Can he do it in zero, 1, 2, 3 and in debuff?

Yeah, people seem to make the misconception level 3 debuff Bane is immobile. He just reverts to pre-patch 1 mobility. He can still outrun super grundy, so yeah. He just can't do anything about it aside from continuing to run because of the lack of armor and the slow backspeed.

 

[Duck Nation]

Yeah, people seem to make the misconception level 3 debuff Bane is immobile. He just reverts to pre-patch 1 mobility. He can still outrun super grundy, so yeah. He just can't do anything about it aside from continuing to run because of the lack of armor and the slow backspeed.

Excellent. Thanks.

 

[Doombawkz]

Excellent. Thanks.

After a backdash we have a lot we can do, namely j.3 command grab will almost always work on hit and block because superman's backdash is lulzbad. If your name starts with a B, you can punish after Backdash is how I remember it. Bane, Black Adam, Batman, and Batgirl (iirc) all have pretty snazzy backdashes.

 

[godlessmode]

To the people saying things like, "Yes but if I do that and guess wrong I get punished", that is the point of Supermans design. He puts you in a situation where you have to guess right, though unlike a 50/50, if you refuse to take an action he just chips away at you.

Superman has basically two options at the core of his pressure game.

1. f23, Breath, repeat
This will interrupt most of the opponents options, forcing them to use a low profile move or a very fast move (most d1s for example), they can also backdash to evade the next f2 for the most part.

2. f23, Breath, delay, f23
This will punish most of what option 1. doesn't punish. This does not punish the backdash option. On a read this can be stuffed. This one is interesting because in general it's very safe for Superman. He can block during the pause, and can essentially confirm whether or not to do the next f23.

Taking Lex's corps charge as an example, it beats option 1, but loses to option 2. The real issue for Lex is that the Risk/Reward strongly favors supermans choices. A right choice nets lex 20%, and wrong one nets superman 40-60%