Darkseid - General Strategies and Discussion

[Eldriken]

"Look at that recovery." - 16 Bit showing Darkseid's grounded Omega Beams

I want this bill that was sold to us about his Omega Beams to be buffed.

But seriously, he has gone pretty much untouched since the beginning and his faults are beginning to really show.

Better zoning or a decent fucking mid. We can't even use f23 for a meterless launcher (it doesn't lead to much without meter, but it's still better than any other string for damage) because it's a high and relatively slow.

I also think that if b12 and 112 had less pushback, we could better utilize the plus frames from them.

You aren't even in range of your d1 after b12 on block while your opponent is in the corner. The same goes for 112.

I love using both of those strings because I tend to catch people pressing buttons afterward, but it's not like I catch them with much. Maybe a db1, or if they have an advancing button, I get to hit them with a d1 into knee or df2.

I'd like to be in range of s2 after b12/112 because then our mid wouldn't be so bad. Isn't it like 9f? If so, after b12/113, we'd have like a ~7f mid. While it doesn't lead to much off of a hit, at least we can -try- to pressure after it.

I like using 223 and 21, so being in range to do them after blocking one of the aforementioned strings, it would make playing Darkseid a little less boring.

He's a one trick pony, really. Stall while waiting for trait, get it out safely (can be difficult in certain MUs) and then land the mix. If you succeed, big damage. If you don't, you eat a nice combo in most cases. If they pushblocked you, oh well. I'll take that over damage.

An added bonus would make it to where you can MB db1 to launch with.

I know some (or many) may not agree with any of this and that's fine. Opinions 'n all that.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

I would agree, but his lacking neutral, flo


I would agree, but I don't think NRS would nerf most of those chars. At most Lord Darkseid just needs a few small adjustments. I just want buttons to okay the neutral or zone more effectively.

nah. if darkseid had good neutral he'd be broke. he needs a weakness besides, "oh risky".
we've got knee, laser and ia j2 and thats what we'll get.
once theres characters not as broke as cw and supergirl he will be fine.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

"Look at that recovery." - 16 Bit showing Darkseid's grounded Omega Beams

I want this bill that was sold to us about his Omega Beams to be buffed.

But seriously, he has gone pretty much untouched since the beginning and his faults are beginning to really show.

Better zoning or a decent fucking mid. We can't even use f23 for a meterless launcher (it doesn't lead to much without meter, but it's still better than any other string for damage) because it's a high and relatively slow.

I also think that if b12 and 112 had less pushback, we could better utilize the plus frames from them.

You aren't even in range of your d1 after b12 on block while your opponent is in the corner. The same goes for 112.

I love using both of those strings because I tend to catch people pressing buttons afterward, but it's not like I catch them with much. Maybe a db1, or if they have an advancing button, I get to hit them with a d1 into knee or df2.

I'd like to be in range of s2 after b12/112 because then our mid wouldn't be so bad. Isn't it like 9f? If so, after b12/113, we'd have like a ~7f mid. While it doesn't lead to much off of a hit, at least we can -try- to pressure after it.

I like using 223 and 21, so being in range to do them after blocking one of the aforementioned strings, it would make playing Darkseid a little less boring.

He's a one trick pony, really. Stall while waiting for trait, get it out safely (can be difficult in certain MUs) and then land the mix. If you succeed, big damage. If you don't, you eat a nice combo in most cases. If they pushblocked you, oh well. I'll take that over damage.

An added bonus would make it to where you can MB db1 to launch with.

I know some (or many) may not agree with any of this and that's fine. Opinions 'n all that.

you all are crazy

 

[Eldriken]

you all are crazy

Why don't you elaborate?

If you're not gonna explain yourself, why post this?

I don't see how him having decent neutral would break him. I'm not asking for anything crazy, y'know? Make f2 a mid or less pushback on b12/112 so we can be in range for s2 is all I'd really want unless his zoning got buffed instead.

I have to be missing something if anything close to this becoming a reality would break him.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Why don't you elaborate?

If you're not gonna explain yourself, why post this?

I don't see how him having decent neutral would break him. I'm not asking for anything crazy, y'know? Make f2 a mid or less pushback on b12/112 so we can be in range for s2 is all I'd really want unless his zoning got buffed instead.

I have to be missing something if anything close to this becoming a reality would break him.

You act like he's bottom 5.
he does not need buffs and having less pushback on b12/112 would be a huge buff it would provide him with so many more options. he doesnt need more options what he needs is to have fair MUs. If youre losing the MUs that are supposed to be even or in your favor then thats not a problem with the character its a problem with the way you play. giving him f2 being a mid doesnt help darkseid drastically enough to change his bad MUs, it only makes him more powerful in his even and winning. thats why I say the too strong characters need to be nerfed not making darkseid more well rounded because we've seen what happens when characters are too well rounded

 

[Eldriken]

You act like he's bottom 5.
he does not need buffs and having less pushback on b12/112 would be a huge buff it would provide him with so many more options. he doesnt need more options what he needs is to have fair MUs. If youre losing the MUs that are supposed to be even or in your favor then thats not a problem with the character its a problem with the way you play. giving him f2 being a mid doesnt help darkseid drastically enough to change his bad MUs, it only makes him more powerful in his even and winning. thats why I say the too strong characters need to be nerfed not making darkseid more well rounded because we've seen what happens when characters are too well rounded

Where did I say anything about his viability in regards to a tier list? I'm not implying anything of the sort, so don't say I'm "acting like" anything.

I also didn't discuss any MU in particular. At. All. Nothing of what I've mentioned above is because of one specific MU, winning or losing. They're just changes I'd personally like to see and you're acting like I'm asking him to be the best in the game.

These options you spoke of, why not elaborate on what they may be? If you're having to tell me about them, then I clearly don't know what they'd be and should be provided with more information considering I asked for an explanation.

I'm open to having my mind changed.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Where did I say anything about his viability in regards to a tier list? I'm not implying anything of the sort, so don't say I'm "acting like" anything.

I also didn't discuss any MU in particular. At. All. Nothing of what I've mentioned above is because of one specific MU, winning or losing. They're just changes I'd personally like to see and you're acting like I'm asking him to be the best in the game.

You're doing the exact opposite of discussing anything in a meaningful way.

These options you spoke of, why not elaborate on what they may be? If you're having to tell me about them, then I clearly don't know what they'd be and should be provided with more information considering I asked for an explanation.

Instead of that, I got what you posted above.

what are you talking about?
you do realize that not considering the MUs is the opposite of meaningful discussion, right?
You cant just say oh yea he should get this and this and this and not think 'hey what would this do to his meta?'
How is discussing the actual effects of buffing the character, meaningless contribution? how is you just saying random ways to buff the character the epitome of valuable contribution?

It depends on how far the pushback is. either way he'll have even more options while he is in.
Have you played the mirror? Are you crazy? you want this character to have more offensive options?

 

[Eldriken]

what are you talking about?
you do realize that not considering the MUs is the opposite of meaningful discussion, right?
You cant just say oh yea he should get this and this and this and not think 'hey what would this do to his meta?'
How is discussing the actual effects of buffing the character, meaningless contribution? how is you just saying random ways to buff the character the epitome of valuable contribution?

It depends on how far the pushback is. either way he'll have even more options while he is in.
Have you played the mirror? Are you crazy? you want this character to have more offensive options?

I am wondering what it would do to his meta, which is why I'm asking.

Like I said before: maybe I'm just missing something and don't see what it would do that sends him overboard.

I'm not trying to disregard MUs with my suggestions. I'm just saying not one in particular is the reason why I mentioned these changes.

 

[Eldriken]

Oh, and yes, I have played the mirror. It seems like one giant waiting game to see who teleports first or screws up first.

Or maybe I play patient Darkseid players like myself. *shrug*

But it never seems overwhelming. Could it with the proposed changes? Sure. Would it be too much? Who knows? We don't even know if he'd receive any nerfs at the same time if he ever got buffed.

But I'm just wanting some more in-depth detail as to what this would open up as far as options go with b12/112 having less pushback. That's my main thing here. What is it that I'm missing?

 

[Basic Stupidity]

I am wondering what it would do to his meta, which is why I'm asking.

Like I said before: maybe I'm just missing something and don't see what it would do that sends him overboard.

I'm not trying to disregard MUs with my suggestions. I'm just saying not one in particular is the reason why I mentioned these changes.

I already described why, because its playing with fire, darkseid needs more of a weakness then, "oohhhhhh risky". he needs to not have neutral. once he gets a neutral too his 5/5s and 6/4s will only get more and more unbalanced for the opponents. they will have nothing to exploit. just hope for the best. you know who is like that? thats right the top tier.



your last sentence literally contradicts itself. which one is it?
are you taking into account the MUs or are you not paying attention to any specific MUs? what do you claim to be doing? taking into account a general idea of MUs that dont happen to be losing or winning? Or is it youre taking into account how darkseid plays and actually ignoring his MUs? what kind of logic is this?

 

[Eldriken]

I already described why, because its playing with fire, darkseid needs more of a weakness then, "oohhhhhh risky". he needs to not have neutral. once he gets a neutral too his 5/5s and 6/4s will only get more and more unbalanced for the opponents. they will have nothing to exploit. just hope for the best. you know who is like that? thats right the top tier.



your last sentence literally contradicts itself. which one is it?
are you taking into account the MUs or are you not paying attention to any specific MUs? what do you claim to be doing? taking into account a general idea of MUs that arent losing or winning? what kind of logic is this?

Maybe I'm not explaining it correctly. *shrug*

I'm just saying they're things I'd like him to have from my time playing him. If you feel they're unnecessary, that's fine.

 

[FLA_Anarquisto]

nah. if darkseid had good neutral he'd be broke. he needs a weakness besides, "oh risky".
we've got knee, laser and ia j2 and thats what we'll get.
once theres characters not as broke as cw and supergirl he will be fine.

He would be far from broken this is not a knee jerk reaction, his lack of tournament appearance and the buffs toward his tougher MUs have made him obsolete in tournament play. Please stop the Darkseid up play his competition got gifts buffs it's time we give the lord Darkseid the same love.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

He would be far from broken this is not a knee jerk reaction, his lack of tournament appearance and the buffs toward his tougher MUs have made him obsolete in tournament play. Please stop the Darkseid up play his competition got gifts buffs it's time we give the lord Darkseid the same love.

its not like hes completely absent from tourney play, sure he hasnt made a major top 8 in awhile but that doesnt mean anything. We shouldnt be buffing characters like how firestorm was buffed, "oh lets make more players play this character". I do feel that darkseid struggles more competitively but thats because of how good the top tiers are not because he needs more tools.

 

[Eldriken]

Say Darkseid does get less pushback on b12/113, what are his super good options that open up?

They're not plus enough to guarantee a b1u3 attempt. You could still get poked out of it. You may not even be in range of an IA Doom Stomp.

I suggested being in range for 2, which can possibly lead to what? You can do 223/22~db1 (second option is punishable at that range), 21, etc. None of them lead to oppressive pressure.

That's why I don't see how it would put him over the edge. 223 is like -6 with a gap and pushback, so it's either able to be interrupted (if your opponent knows the MU and can interrupt it) or you're back to the neutral.

His 21 is -3, which leaves you -some- room to maybe try getting away with pressing d1 afterward if your opponent doesn't know the MU.

I'm just trying to see what exactly about all this would send him overboard.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Say Darkseid does get less pushback on b12/113, what are his super good options that open up?

They're not plus enough to guarantee a b1u3 attempt. You could still get poked out of it. You may not even be in range of an IA Doom Stomp.

I suggested being in range for 2, which can possibly lead to what? You can do 223/22~db1 (second option is punishable at that range), 21, etc. None of them lead to oppressive pressure.

That's why I don't see how it would put him over the edge. 223 is like -6 with a gap and pushback, so it's either able to be interrupted (if your opponent knows the MU and can interrupt it) or you're back to the neutral.

His 21 is -3, which leaves you -some- room to maybe try getting away with pressing d1 afterward if your opponent doesn't know the MU.

I'm just trying to see what exactly about all this would send him overboard.

you do realize I have no idea how close or far the opponent will be in your little hypothetical situation right?
Sure you could literally just be in range of standing 2 great, but then obviously you arent going to standing 2 everytime unless you do like s2 into ex knee which would then be extending the pressure and the mixup potential.

either way its still either too good of a buff or a useless buff and both ways wouldnt help the balance of the game in any way.

 

[FLA_Anarquisto]

you do realize I have no idea how close or far the opponent will be in your little hypothetical situation right?
Sure you could literally just be in range of standing 2 great, but then obviously you arent going to standing 2 everytime unless you do like s2 into ex knee which would then be extending the pressure and the mixup potential.

either way its still either too good of a buff or a useless buff and both ways wouldnt help the balance of the game in any way.

The balance of the game was thrown out the window when Firestorm and Scarecrow got them buffs. He's not what he was before this patch. He's not that scary.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

The balance of the game was thrown out the window when Firestorm and Scarecrow got them buffs. He's not what he was before this patch. He's not that scary.

just because there are bad balance changes it doesnt mean there should be more

 

[FLA_Anarquisto]

just because there are bad balance changes it doesnt mean there should be more

There's a difference between adjusting one character and changing his competition to make him more viable.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

There's a difference between adjusting one character and changing his competition to make him more viable.

yes so i suggest changing darkseids competition

 

[FLA_Anarquisto]

yes so i suggest changing darkseids competition

Giving him a mid is more likely of an outcome.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Giving him a mid is more likely of an outcome.

i doubt it. much more people want cw and supergirl to get nerfed than want darkseid to have a mid.

 

[FLA_Anarquisto]

i doubt it. much more people want cw and supergirl to get nerfed than want darkseid to have a mid.

I'm curious about your logic why would his zoning or his buttons/mid being buff would break him in your opinion?

P.S. The Supergirl community is filled with cucks they were crying for buffs since day one.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

I'm curious about your logic why would his zoning or his buttons/mid being buff would break him in your opinion?

P.S. The Supergirl community is filled with cucks they were crying for buffs since day one.

im sorry i dont want to be like the supergirl community.
ill only ask for buffs if i feel they are necessary and i dont think they are.

 

[FLA_Anarquisto]

im sorry i dont want to be like the supergirl community.
ill only ask for buffs if i feel they are necessary and i dont think they are.

I commend your attitude, truly it's want more FGC players new or old should adhere too. However, it's been long enough to argue he needs help his competition has received favorable buffs. It's insane to to believe his, "MIX" can carry him to the top. A button or a string that's a MID would b more than enough for him.

 

[Tweedy]

This is a top 5 downplaying community ever since Knicks stopped upplaying. He's not top tier but jesus dude stop talking about buffs like holy sheet.