Match-up Discussion Cyrax Matchup Discussion Thread

[NariTuba]

If the fight is at a long distance and noob's spamming running man, just time him for a teleport and your're up close with him again.

A problem I see with attempting to close distance with Cyrax teleport on Noob is he can upknee on reaction. Even a braindead running man spamming Noob will get that upknee on the teleport because of df3 turning on bf3 when you reverse their controls by teleporting. Upknee is safe so you end up close but blocking at least 1 upknee. If the Noob is good he WILL pressure you at this point with throw or b1,2,1,4 string.

Seems to me its more viable to keep jump distance against Noob as Cyrax than to attempt to get upclose. Good stuff tho Caraecrika, just playing devils advocate here to keep the discussion going.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

matchups arent purely decided on damage alone, noob doesnt have high combo damage but he can portal at the end of his strings potentially giving him two combos in quick succesion, not to mention portals that force cyrax to move the same his bombs force noob to move. cyrax cant hurt you from a distance but noob can severly hurt him from a distance. If you're smart with noob and dont get traded with you take the "60" out of the discussion.

remember, noob has more than 25% combos and shadow tackles.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

Cyrax takes the match against noob saibot. Throwing too many projectiles against Cyrax is not a smart move. In this match, if the Cyrax player knows what he's doing, he will keep Noob Saibot close and pressure him to death. Cyrax destroys Noob Saibot IMO. Whats noob going to do? A slow ass normal to escape pressure? A d+3? An upknee?, you can easily poke him out of it, and Cyrax's pokes and pressure aint no joke. You could even cross up noobs upknee now that they nerfed the hitbox.

I played against Noobe's Cyrax at last and let me tell you, I am now fully convinced Cyrax is one of the best characters in the game. Cyrax rapes Noob Saibot.

 

[salvificblood]

Here's the thing about the Sub-Zero, Cyrax matchup... the only reason Sub loses at the moment is because Cyrax can almost kill Sub-Zero for one mistake in some situations, but I've been extremely close to beating people who know how to get 68-75% with Cyrax online because I typically use the first round to download my opponent and build meter. Once I have enough meter, and I understand my opponent's patterns, I can get iceball to trade with bombs, ex freeze to trade favourably with nets or bombs and that teleport is definitely getting punished with at least 23%. Sub-Zero can also slide punish bombs, but this is actually one of those matchups where the iceball is safer because a net trade is neutral and the trade is favourable with bombs. If you really mine the percentages with Sub, he can hang with Cyrax even as Cyrax is now. He just needs to stop playing based on Xray, and base his strategy around favourable trades and never being too far away from a breaker, that way, even if Cyrax starts one of his ex bomb resets, Sub should have breaker by the time Cyrax uses his meter on ex bomb in the reset.

The matchup is just all about footsies and reads. When the crazy resets are gone, I think the matchup is a true 5-5.

I don't play Noob as much but he's definitely at a disadvantage against Cyrax but only because Cyrax nullifies a lot of Noob's footsies with well-placed bombs. It's not that he'll sometimes trade with a net because Noob is a meter building monster and a smart Noob will be footsies heavy and zoning light against Cyrax. You have to factor in all of a character's tools to give a fair matchup score. Noob's upknee doen't do 60% but it prevents him from taking 60% and it gives him "tricky" options once he's conditioned his opponent to expect it up close.

 

[NariTuba]

Taking into account all discussions so far we are left with the following corrections on the OP:

6-4 vs Baraka
5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
5-5 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
5-5 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal
5-5 vs Kano
5-5 vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
5-5 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
6-4 vs Noob Saibot
6-4 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
5-5 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
7-3 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
6-4 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
6-4 vs Stryker
6-4 vs Sub-Zero

Did my best to average what was debated in this thread. Please discuss any inconsistencies you may see.

EDIT1: Johnny Cage matchup changed to 5-5

EDIT2: Noob Saibot matchup changed back to 6-4

EDIT3: Kenshi matchup added (5-5)

 

[M2Dave]

If the fight is at a long distance and noob's spamming running man, just time him for a teleport and your're up close with him again.

Why would you teleport when net can trade with tackle full screen away? When you trade with net, back roll, teleport next to Noob, and do the following.

2,1~EX bomb, medium bomb, 3,3~buzzsaw, u+1, 3,3~net, b+2, 1,2,1. 56% of damage. You may replace 1,2,1 with 1~net to disable Noob's wake up game and keep him right next to you, but the overall damage is slightly lower. You trade 8% for 56% of damage.

If I am the Noob player, I am very cautious. I am scared because I know if I throw a tackle at the wrong time, I am losing 60% of my life. The Cyrax player can now take advantage of the Noob player's reluctance by blocking and dashing forward to mid range, where we have all agreed that Cyrax has the advantage.

My Cyrax competition is a very good local player and I have played Noobe before too. I still think it is better than 6:4 for Cyrax. With the resets in mind, of course.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

Why would you teleport when net can trade with tackle full screen away? When you trade with net, back roll, teleport next to Noob, and do the following.

2,1~EX bomb, medium bomb, 3,3~buzzsaw, u+1, 3,3~net, b+2, 1,2,1. 56% of damage. You may replace 1,2,1 with 1~net to disable Noob's wake up game and keep him right next to you, but the overall damage is slightly lower. You trade 8% for 56% of damage.

If I am the Noob player, I am very cautious. I am scared because I know if I throw a tackle at the wrong time, I am losing 60% of my life. The Cyrax player can now take advantage of the Noob player's reluctance by blocking and dashing forward to mid range, where we have all agreed that Cyrax has the advantage.

My Cyrax competition is a very good local player and I have played Noobe before too. I still think it is better than 6:4 for Cyrax. With the resets in mind, of course.

Completely agree.

 

[Sao87]

Here's the thing about the Sub-Zero, Cyrax matchup... the only reason Sub loses at the moment is because Cyrax can almost kill Sub-Zero for one mistake in some situations, but I've been extremely close to beating people who know how to get 68-75% with Cyrax online because I typically use the first round to download my opponent and build meter. Once I have enough meter, and I understand my opponent's patterns, I can get iceball to trade with bombs, ex freeze to trade favourably with nets or bombs and that teleport is definitely getting punished with at least 23%. Sub-Zero can also slide punish bombs, but this is actually one of those matchups where the iceball is safer because a net trade is neutral and the trade is favourable with bombs. If you really mine the percentages with Sub, he can hang with Cyrax even as Cyrax is now. He just needs to stop playing based on Xray, and base his strategy around favourable trades and never being too far away from a breaker, that way, even if Cyrax starts one of his ex bomb resets, Sub should have breaker by the time Cyrax uses his meter on ex bomb in the reset.

The matchup is just all about footsies and reads. When the crazy resets are gone, I think the matchup is a true 5-5.

I don't play Noob as much but he's definitely at a disadvantage against Cyrax but only because Cyrax nullifies a lot of Noob's footsies with well-placed bombs. It's not that he'll sometimes trade with a net because Noob is a meter building monster and a smart Noob will be footsies heavy and zoning light against Cyrax. You have to factor in all of a character's tools to give a fair matchup score. Noob's upknee doen't do 60% but it prevents him from taking 60% and it gives him "tricky" options once he's conditioned his opponent to expect it up close.

This is the kind of stuff I can support. This guy has obviously thought in depth about the match up and explains each characters strengths against each other very well.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

Why would you teleport when net can trade with tackle full screen away? When you trade with net, back roll, teleport next to Noob, and do the following.

2,1~EX bomb, medium bomb, 3,3~buzzsaw, u+1, 3,3~net, b+2, 1,2,1. 56% of damage. You may replace 1,2,1 with 1~net to disable Noob's wake up game and keep him right next to you, but the overall damage is slightly lower. You trade 8% for 56% of damage.

If I am the Noob player, I am very cautious. I am scared because I know if I throw a tackle at the wrong time, I am losing 60% of my life. The Cyrax player can now take advantage of the Noob player's reluctance by blocking and dashing forward to mid range, where we have all agreed that Cyrax has the advantage.

My Cyrax competition is a very good local player and I have played Noobe before too. I still think it is better than 6:4 for Cyrax. With the resets in mind, of course.

Don't know if you noticed, but go back to my post and look at the part i said trading running man with nets is a win.

I just gave an alternate option, i mean i like to think im experienced in this matchup. When i time a teleport correctly almost 90% of the time they try to do db3, which by then i'll be doing d4 and close in for a command grab and then proceed with mind games. I obviously agree with your post, i was pointing out a scenario that with low health will save your life.

 

[salvificblood]

Anything that is special cancel able becomes safe because of his up clones. I understand frame data very well, I am aware that on paper his moves are slow. Do you know anything about zoning? Noob is very good at it regardless of where he is on the screen because his strings have high priority.

I don't know how I overlooked this. This is exactly what I've been saying about Noob in his buffs/nerfs thread. Giving out frame data for Noob's f3 and saying it's trash because it's relatively slow just shows that you don't play the character and don't know how he should be played. Noob's f33 is ridiculously good, in my opinion. It beats out so much and is hit confirmable into a shadow tackle or an upknee, making it a safe way to avoid pressure and build meter, do chip, or do 15%. If your opponent likes to jump over it, upknee him until he respects it.

 

[NariTuba]

I don't play Noob as much but he's definitely at a disadvantage against Cyrax but only because Cyrax nullifies a lot of Noob's footsies with well-placed bombs. It's not that he'll sometimes trade with a net because Noob is a meter building monster and a smart Noob will be footsies heavy and zoning light against Cyrax. You have to factor in all of a character's tools to give a fair matchup score. Noob's upknee doen't do 60% but it prevents him from taking 60% and it gives him "tricky" options once he's conditioned his opponent to expect it up close.

This is fantastic stuff Salvific, well analyzed!

 

[Robotic]

Good shit NariTuba, you're following through. Now if we could only get a more spirited and frequent discussion in every other matchup thread, then we'll be golden. 6-4 Sektor jk

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

There is no way Mileena is an even 5-5 matchup. Nooooooooo.
That pink bitch has had my number since day 1. If anyone, I'd consider her to be the anti-Cyrax in the game. Fighting up close always ends in a roll, projectiles end in a teleport kick, i hate her sais worse than i hate Kitana's fans. She's got superiority over/countermeasures for nearly all of his offense, so all you can do is block, punish, catch a breaker to the face, then start ducking and dodging again because she doesnt even NEED meter to beat someone, just the right combination of specials and stabs. She's a monster. I may just put her in the lab to learn how to be that evil. I need a reliable 2nd.

6-4 to 6.5-3.5 in her favor, at the least, depending on skills of players involved. All I know is learning to beat her is #1 priority right now.

 

[NariTuba]

There is no way Mileena is an even 5-5 matchup. Nooooooooo.
That pink bitch has had my number since day 1. If anyone, I'd consider her to be the anti-Cyrax in the game. Fighting up close always ends in a roll, projectiles end in a teleport kick, i hate her sais worse than i hate Kitana's fans. She's got superiority over/countermeasures for nearly all of his offense, so all you can do is block, punish, catch a breaker to the face, then start ducking and dodging again because she doesnt even NEED meter to beat someone, just the right combination of specials and stabs. She's a monster. I may just put her in the lab to learn how to be that evil. I need a reliable 2nd.

6-4 to 6.5-3.5 in her favor, at the least, depending on skills of players involved. All I know is learning to beat her is #1 priority right now.

At a Distance: if shes throwing sais close the gap to trade distance (about half screen) to net her. Crouch without blocking to avoid the projectiles and walk forward; use any gaps created by insta sai execution problems to dash... dont jump. Be ready to block tele kicks and punish with 1,2,net etc. Remember to block the second hit of her ExTele kick crouching so you can punish her. Punish roll while shes still in the air, you cannot get a ground punish on her roll. Use your bombs to interrupt sai madness, they have better recovery than net.

Upclose: Stay on the offensive, her normals are slow. You can jump again for jump punch starters. Use d4 into 1,2 combo, her d4 is great but so is yours, your d1 will also work in poke wars with her. Alternate between poke strings and command grab. Use your AA throw! shes a jump happy character that will get caught a lot and will rarely be able to punish you for a whiff. An AAt whiff will also move you out of the way of her Tele kick... so keep a twitchy finger on df1; just dont be ridiculous with it. Beware of her u4! Try blocking high against her (as her roll is not a low), she is likely to d4 you which you can counter poke... she can also commit to a low kick, roll combo starter (i forget the notation sorry) but you can punish that hard on block.

Hope any of that helps. A good mileena is trouble but she can crumble if you learn to block her correctly. I feel Cyrax has more tools but I can agree with a 5-5.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

When she's zoning like the asshole that she is, i just try to launch a far bomb to get some wiggle room, yeah you'll probably eat a sai or two but if you want a quick way out, rather than just going forward for 10 minutes i'd suggest doing this and follow it up with a teleport. Otherwise just dash block or dash and crouch or w/e. Im usually patient when playing but the mileena matchup just uhhh.

 

[spin4u]

maybe wrong thread for this but its the most active thread for cyrax players. is his f+2~2 safe on block and if the f+2 hits does it push back your opponent?
The reason I ask this is to beat out pokes such as reptiles d+4 which has long reach and is slow like most d+4's. I use this because it pushes back cyrax out of range for the hit and it comes back fast. Enough time to punish a d+4. But i dont use it often so i catch my adversaries off guard with it.

 

[PND_Mustard]

maybe wrong thread for this but its the most active thread for cyrax players. is his f+2~2 safe on block and if the f+2 hits does it push back your opponent?
The reason I ask this is to beat out pokes such as reptiles d+4 which has long reach and is slow like most d+4's. I use this because it pushes back cyrax out of range for the hit and it comes back fast. Enough time to punish a d+4. But i dont use it often so i catch my adversaries off guard with it.

i cant promise it to you, but i dont think so, i am yet to be punished by getting that blocked

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Thanks a bunch, Tube and Car. Good ideas on both parts. Gotta get my blocking rhythm down, for sure. God help her if I net her on the ground.

Spin, I'm not sure about the F2. Gotta try that myself. Yes.

 

[NariTuba]

Kenshi matchup

Over on the Kenshi Match Up thread both teef and Riu48 mentioned they felt the match is a 5-5.

What do you guys think? Is Cyrax power balanced by Kenshi´s zoning?

 

[spin4u]

I think its horrible against Kenshi. You can't do long range nets or bombs because his shoulder tackle is fast plus that overhead knocks you out of the air. I think he is powered by kenshi's zoning. he has some good 38% mid screen and 47% wall combos that its like playing cyrax in my opinion. Gotta use meter wisely.

on the side note: will Cyrax still have his bnb reset with the uppercut or is that being take away as well?

 

[PND_Mustard]

I think its horrible against Kenshi. You can't do long range nets or bombs because his shoulder tackle is fast plus that overhead knocks you out of the air. I think he is powered by kenshi's zoning. he has some good 38% mid screen and 47% wall combos that its like playing cyrax in my opinion. Gotta use meter wisely.

on the side note: will Cyrax still have his bnb reset with the uppercut or is that being take away as well?

uppercut reset? are you referring to the ex bomb, mid bomb uppercut combo?

thats no reset, its a legit combo. im yet to face a good kenshi so i have no valuable input for that matchup

 

[NariTuba]

on the side note: will Cyrax still have his bnb reset with the uppercut or is that being take away as well?

The word "reset" has been thrown around so much regarding Cyrax that confusion is bound to happen. I definitely dont say this only because of your comment, Ive actually heard the word missused in top level gamplay commentary... so I think its worth clearing up in the interest of communication.

jabs, Exb, mb, uppercut, b2, etc is his main bnb combo right now and there is no reset involved.

A reset takes place when the game considers a combo finished and attributes the following hit as a new combo starter. Traditionally, a reset is a gamble where the attacker forces the defender to a guessing/reaction game that could either start a new combo or allow the defender to escape. This usually means sacrificing damage for a setup. Many characters in MK9 can perform resets.

The infamous "Cyrax resets" everyone talks about take place because of a bug in Cyrax´bombs that allow him to reset damage and gravity but are not escapable at all or have a ridiculously tight window of escape. These "guarranteed resets" are basically an unforseen consequence of the nature of his specials and were not intended by the developers; which is why they are being patched.

I´m not sure wether you were incorrectly calling his bnb combo a reset or if you are actually referring to a Tony-T style uppercut after OTG bomb reset. If the case is the latter then we´ll have to wait and see what the full nature of the fix is and how it will affect OTG bomb setups. After the patch I believe Cyrax players will begin some hardcore experimentation with OTG resets, hopefully we´ll come up with some stuff that is practical yet fair. A true reset that allows for mindgames, versus an inescapable reset.

Thanks for the Kenshi input btw spin4u!

 

[RWDY Nori]

Against Kenshi, the best thing to do is make him come to you. You have to place bombs under his feet and make him move around. Kenshi is not comfortable (I've been playing Kenshi for a while now) unless he sits back and zones. You have to throw some bombs under his feet and make him come to you

FYI, his B2 (It's a fast overhead, spinning sword move) he is +2 on block. He has a low string that is low, high and leads to 28% damage. You don't want to just duck against him cause again, his B2 is a great, fast overhead. His 2, 1 is a high, mid and the mid part takes up a huge part of the screen.



IMO, you want to cross up Kenshi as much as possible. You can duck his BF3, but like Spin4u has said, his sword overhead hurts also. Safest way to get in on him IMO is simply boring but effective block dashing and well placed bombs. Kenshi (like NW) cannot do anything about the bombs, his reflect does not work against them. Kenshi gets murdered by crossups so once you are in on him, he has to take risks to get you out. I hope this helped


I'm so bored at work I'm trolling all the matchup threads lol. I don't play Cyrax at all but Spin4u has a pretty good Cyrax, kind of annoying to fight Cyrax cause you have to be so damn careful

 

[NariTuba]

@spin4u & Nori would you guys agree with a 5-5?

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Nori hit it on the head. Grenades are your best friend against Kenshi.

I'd agree that it's about even though. Neither of them really has a super strength that plays out against the other's weakness.