Match-up Discussion Cyrax Matchup Discussion Thread

[Leonkiller]

Ok first of all I am talking about average kung lao players online not like perfect legend and justing wong. What I have noticed what most of them do when I play with cyrax is: When I teleport they spin if you do it late than you have 3 options command grab, 2,1 net, or net right away. I ussually prefer command grab. Thats a 50%-70% damage right there. Also what I have noticed how do most people react to bombs either they teleport or do their fly kick. If they teleport neutral jump bam combo right there. If they do the air kick I ussualy just try to block..........when you do the net, most of the time it misses. Also what I have noticed a lot of cyraxed players do not use the ex version of his teleport it is awesome it deals 8% damage and you can combo after it awesome against kung laos frame traps (will not work against Johny Cages frame traps) Also when I play Kung Lao I dont throw nets at all only to prevent the wake up. Just bombs.......... faster recovery time. Thats my strategy. I have way bigger problems against kabal and reptile as cyrax player.

 

[blues686]

I have way bigger problems against kabal and reptile as cyrax player.

speaking of reptile.. any tips in that match up.. i cant seem to beat a good reptile player at all with cyrax.. hes my hardest match up by far

 

[ZeroEffect]

@Chad - If Mileena plays smart, she should beat Cyrax in my opinion. Rolls and Telekicks being punished is a big deal, but it's not the basis of the fight. Simply because Mileena will probably not even attempt a roll against Cyrax unless he jumps.

Cyrax does a good job shutting down a lot of her wakeup with Net, and his Anti-air throw becomes very good against her stopping jump ins, U4, even telekick at certain frames. But once Mil is outta range of everything but Net, she can play darts with him all day until he approaches or teleports, the latter giving her almost a guaranteed D4 on reaction. Telekick on reaction to his chest opening stuffs bombs and net at this range so he has to be more creative.

I personally look at the matchup as a 6/4 for Mileena, but realistically, it's more likely even.

 

[NariTuba]

Taking into account all discussions so far we are left with the following corrections on the OP:

6-4 vs Baraka
5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
5-5 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
5-5 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal
5-5 vs Kano
xxx vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
5-5 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
6-4 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
5-5 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
7-3 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
6-4 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
6-4 vs Stryker
6-4 vs Sub-Zero

Did my best to average what was debated in this thread. Please discuss any inconsistencies you may see.

I´m still not sure about Kung Lao being 5-5 but I will give Trophy Club the right in this case since he is the more experienced player and his opinion matches the OP. @Mustard: any thoughts on the Kung Lao match up? Also Maxter any input you might have on this thread would be very valuable!

EDIT1: Johnny Cage matchup changed to 5-5

 

[PND_Mustard]

i'd say that kung lao is 5-5, cyrax can punish any teleport with a standing 1 into net, and can trade with a low hat at mid range where i find most Lao users throwing them at me, bombs are perfect teleport/divekick bait and cyrax can punish both heavily, once kung lao gets the upclose pressure going you can usually escape it with an enhanced overhead kick or take overhead hit if the KL uses it, although once Lao has cyrax in the corner its easy to pin him there, the spin punishes the teleport clean so cyrax is reduced to blocking and waiting for an opening, not to mention KL can spin out of cyrax's 2,1,2 string, making mixups nigh impossible.

i'd also suggest the quan chi a 5-5, at a distance cyrax cant do a whole lot other than bombs and nets as usual, however quan chi is possibly the worst to trade with, if he trances you and you net him, he will escape and still have time to hit you with whatever, not to mention quan chi can sap cyrax's meter with EX trance, and taking away cyrax's meter cripples him, his skull is also far too quick for you to try to trade with as he recovers too quick for it, he can also interupt cyrax's 2,1,2 string with an uppercut, and as cyrax cant punish his uppercut there is no reason for the Quan chi to not be mashing it at all times, the reason id consider this 5-5 and not 4-6 is because cyrax can really keep quan chi pressured once he gets knocked down, chis horrible wakeup game makes him helpless to cyrax's corner shenanigans, once quan chi is cornered against cyrax it should be endgame.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Cage and Sonya should both be 5-5s, when I play cage vs mustard its generally 5-5
I've recently picked up sonya but i can see her having the same issues against cyrax, she can shoot back but she cant stay in as long as cage either.

Thats just what i feel from the POV of both of them characters

 

[NariTuba]

i'd say that kung lao is 5-5, cyrax can punish any teleport with a standing 1 into net, and can trade with a low hat at mid range where i find most Lao users throwing them at me, bombs are perfect teleport/divekick bait and cyrax can punish both heavily, once kung lao gets the upclose pressure going you can usually escape it with an enhanced overhead kick or take overhead hit if the KL uses it, although once Lao has cyrax in the corner its easy to pin him there, the spin punishes the teleport clean so cyrax is reduced to blocking and waiting for an opening, not to mention KL can spin out of cyrax's 2,1,2 string, making mixups nigh impossible.

thanks man... 5-5 it stays

i'd also suggest the quan chi a 5-5, at a distance cyrax cant do a whole lot other than bombs and nets as usual, however quan chi is possibly the worst to trade with, if he trances you and you net him, he will escape and still have time to hit you with whatever, not to mention quan chi can sap cyrax's meter with EX trance, and taking away cyrax's meter cripples him, his skull is also far too quick for you to try to trade with as he recovers too quick for it, he can also interupt cyrax's 2,1,2 string with an uppercut, and as cyrax cant punish his uppercut there is no reason for the Quan chi to not be mashing it at all times, the reason id consider this 5-5 and not 4-6 is because cyrax can really keep quan chi pressured once he gets knocked down, chis horrible wakeup game makes him helpless to cyrax's corner shenanigans, once quan chi is cornered against cyrax it should be endgame.

quan chi match-up! wow this is some rare data indeed. Its so hard to accurately gather data on this match up as there are so few pale boldie players. Im going to do some reaserch as to why the OP says 6-4 Cyrax and compare to your notes, but what youre saying makes sense to me.

Cage and Sonya should both be 5-5s, when I play cage vs mustard its generally 5-5
I've recently picked up sonya but i can see her having the same issues against cyrax, she can shoot back but she cant stay in as long as cage either.

Thanks for the input FG, you got some unique Cage chops... awesome stuff!. I too believe Cage is 5-5 with Cyrax so I´m gonna go ahead and update this as I dont think there is a reason to keep Cage as having advantage over Cyrax and not Kung Lao. (sure there are many fine points to debate on this and will adjust as need arises)

 

[spin4u]

how do you fight a good cage?

 

[PND_Mustard]

how do you fight a good cage?

keep him as far away as possible, shoot short bombs and stand on them to give yourself a little breathing space, be on point with your anti air and try not to fight back so hard when hes up in your face, your main concern should be getting away from his pressure

 

[M2Dave]

Cyrax vs. Noob is most definitely not a 5:5 match up. More like 7:3 in favor of Cyrax.

 

[PND_Mustard]

Cyrax vs. Noob is most definitely not a 5:5 match up. More like 7:3 in favor of Cyrax.

how so?

 

[UsedForGlue]

how so?

Cyrax really doesnt have much time to get set against Noob, its defiantly not in favour of Cyrax. Cyrax can't get in as he doesnt have the tools for that, he needs to trap his opponent or keep him out, and Noob, doesn't have to fight you if he does not want to. Not in Cyrax's Favour.

 

[PND_Mustard]

Cyrax really doesnt have much time to get set against Noob, its defiantly not in favour of Cyrax. Cyrax can't get in as he doesnt have the tools for that, he needs to trap his opponent or keep him out, and Noob, doesn't have to fight you if he does not want to. Not in Cyrax's Favour.

i find sitting at jump - short distance makes this unwinnable for noob personally, he's far too easy to read as a character, and its a trade you can take all day, not to mention planting bombs under his feet forces him to move towards you, especially if he's cornered from backing away to close distance.

 

[UsedForGlue]

i find sitting at jump - short distance makes this unwinnable for noob personally, he's far too easy to read as a character, and its a trade you can take all day, not to mention planting bombs under his feet forces him to move towards you, especially if he's cornered from backing away to close distance.

Yes, that is the way to play noob, alot like reptile, dash distance.

But a good noob saibot will make it very difficult for cyrax. What do you think?

 

[M2Dave]

how so?

Noob's d,f+3 and b,f+4 are fast as far as start up frames and traveling speed goes, but they are one of the most unsafe projectile moves in the game in terms of total recovery frames. Noob has to be extremely cautious of trading with the net. d,f+3 does 8% of damage while connected nets lead to 60% juggles with one super bar. Noob has to zone perfectly to stand any chance at victory. It does not help that Noob is offensively challenged and that his b'n'b combos do 20% of damage. The difference in damage is simply astronomical for the match up to be even. Players who claim otherwise are misinformed.

This seems to be another forum that is downplaying the effectiveness of their character. Cyrax is undeniably a top 5 character at the moment in this game. The match up chart should prove that.

 

[Sao87]

I'm extremely cautious when it comes to people listing match ups at 7-3's and 8-2's. A lot of people that come up with these numbers haven't actually pushed themselves to feel out the matches, they just speculate based on what specials each character has. I honestly believe that when this game is played correctly most of the match ups aren't much more difficult than 4-6, 5-5 and 6-4.

 

[M2Dave]

I'm extremely cautious when it comes to people listing match ups at 7-3's and 8-2's. A lot of people that come up with these numbers haven't actually pushed themselves to feel out the matches, they just speculate based on what specials each character has. I honestly believe that when this game is played correctly most of the match ups aren't much more difficult than 4-6, 5-5 and 6-4.

I am not sure what game you are playing, but MK is known to have some serious lopsided match ups, even among the best players out there.

Cyrax beats Noob 7:3. Noob's main strength (zoning) is very unsafe against Cyrax (net + 60% with one super bar). It is as simple as that. If Noob's tackles were safer, then it would be an even match up.

 

[PND_Mustard]

Noob's d,f+3 and b,f+4 are fast as far as start up frames and traveling speed goes, but they are one of the most unsafe projectile moves in the game in terms of total recovery frames. Noob has to be extremely cautious of trading with the net. d,f+3 does 8% of damage while connected nets lead to 60% juggles with one super bar. Noob has to zone perfectly to stand any chance at victory. It does not help that Noob is offensively challenged and that his b'n'b combos do 20% of damage. The difference in damage is simply astronomical for the match up to be even. Players who claim otherwise are misinformed.

This seems to be another forum that is downplaying the effectiveness of their character. Cyrax is undeniably a top 5 character at the moment in this game. The match up chart should prove that.

it depends if they're taking the 70% resets into account, which i dont as theyre going soon, id say its 5-5 / 6-4. but matchup charts arent set in stone, also your comment on 60% trades from a net is ridiculous, if theyre not using the resets and playing the character as intended they will get just over 45% as its a net start, yes its alot but nowhere near as much as 60. also the upknee rapes cyrax up close, if a cyrax is anywhere in its hitbox just do it, if hes standing out of its range dont, too many people i fight online blame the characters when its their own mistakes which cost them matches, not the characters.

 

[M2Dave]

it depends if they're taking the 70% resets into account, which i dont as theyre going soon, id say its 5-5 / 6-4. but matchup charts arent set in stone, also your comment on 60% trades from a net is ridiculous, if theyre not using the resets and playing the character as intended they will get just over 45% as its a net start, yes its alot but nowhere near as much as 60. also the upknee rapes cyrax up close, if a cyrax is anywhere in its hitbox just do it, if hes standing out of its range dont, too many people i fight online blame the characters when its their own mistakes which cost them matches, not the characters.

Of course, my opponent is taking advantage of the reset to do 60%+ of damage. And what do you mean by "if they're not using the resets and playing the character as intended..."? The resets are permitted at tournaments. Why would the players not take advantage of them?

What is going on in this forum?

 

[Sao87]

I am not sure what game you are playing, but MK is known to have some serious lopsided match ups, even among the best players out there.

Cyrax beats Noob 7:3. Noob's main strength (zoning) is very unsafe against Cyrax (net + 60% with one super bar). It is as simple as that. If Noob's tackles were safer, then it would be an even match up.

The thing is you camp every match up thread as if your opinion is the end all be all of opinions. You cant possibly have the match up knowledge to comment on EVERYTHING in this game. You seem to have a preconceived notion of where certain characters fall on the match up list and then argue based on theory.

A true match up chart is created when both characters are being played to the best of their abilities. This is why I am more prone to agree with someone like Mustard who has good Noob competition and has pushed Cyrax harder than anyone else I've seen play this game. To say that Noob becomes a weak character once he is not full screen is asinine. He has safe block strings, great priority and range on his combo strings and will have more opportunity's to score damage than Cyrax in general. I don't think you've put enough thought into why Noob might not be at such a disadvantage in this match up.

 

[M2Dave]

The thing is you camp every match up thread as if your opinion is the end all be all of opinions. You cant possibly have the match up knowledge to comment on EVERYTHING in this game. You seem to have a preconceived notion of where certain characters fall on the match up list and then argue based on theory.

A true match up chart is created when both characters are being played to the best of their abilities. This is why I am more prone to agree with someone like Mustard who has good Noob competition and has pushed Cyrax harder than anyone else I've seen play this game. To say that Noob becomes a weak character once he is not full screen is asinine. He has safe block strings, great priority and range on his combo strings and will have more opportunity's to score damage than Cyrax in general. I don't think you've put enough thought into why Noob might not be at such a disadvantage in this match up.

I don't claim to know everything, but when I see misinformation, I try to correct it based on my playing experience. Before I proceed, I can't take anything Mustard says seriously when he's talking about playing Cyrax without resets. I don't know any high level player who plays Cyrax without resets. If the resets are legal in tournaments, they are legal everywhere else.

As far as Noob is concerned, what safe block strings? 2,1,2 is good, but 2 is a "true" high, meaning the vast majority of characters can crouch and poke Noob out of it. Cyrax is no exception to the rule. What great priority and range on his combo strings? Noob's f+3 is 17 frames. b+1 is 18 frames. If you know anything about frame data, you know how slow these two moves are. Who in this game depends on such slow normal attacks? No one but Noob. Even if Noob's strings connect, who cares? They only do 20% of damage. Cyrax gets triple the damage with one super bar from any net and hit confirmable poke. Can't you guys see that the difference in damage between the two characters is astronomical?

You guys know very little about Cyrax and apparently even less about Noob. Again, Cyrax is a top 5 character in this game. The numbers should prove it.

 

[PND_Mustard]

I don't claim to know everything, but when I see misinformation, I try to correct it based on my playing experience. Before I proceed, I can't take anything Mustard says seriously when he's talking about playing Cyrax without resets. I don't know any high level player who plays Cyrax without resets. If the resets are legal in tournaments, they are legal everywhere else.

As far as Noob is concerned, what safe block strings? 2,1,2 is good, but 2 is a "true" high, meaning the vast majority of characters can crouch and poke Noob out of it. Cyrax is no exception to the rule. What great priority and range on his combo strings? Noob's f+3 is 17 frames. b+1 is 18 frames. If you know anything about frame data, you know how slow these two moves are. Who in this game depends on such slow normal attacks? No one but Noob. Even if Noob's strings connect, who cares? They only do 20% of damage. Cyrax gets triple the damage with one super bar from any net and hit confirmable poke. Can't you guys see that the difference in damage between the two characters is astronomical?

You guys know very little about Cyrax and apparently even less about Noob. Again, Cyrax is a top 5 character in this game. The numbers should prove it.

i guess i don't know anything about cyrax, shame that, he's my favourite character, i guess i need more practise

 

[Sao87]

I don't claim to know everything, but when I see misinformation, I try to correct it based on my playing experience. Before I proceed, I can't take anything Mustard says seriously when he's talking about playing Cyrax without resets. I don't know any high level player who plays Cyrax without resets. If the resets are legal in tournaments, they are legal everywhere else.

As far as Noob is concerned, what safe block strings? 2,1,2 is good, but 2 is a "true" high, meaning the vast majority of characters can crouch and poke Noob out of it. Cyrax is no exception to the rule. What great priority and range on his combo strings? Noob's f+3 is 17 frames. b+1 is 18 frames. If you know anything about frame data, you know how slow these two moves are. Who in this game depends on such slow normal attacks? No one but Noob. Even if Noob's strings connect, who cares? They only do 20% of damage. Cyrax gets triple the damage with one super bar from any net and hit confirmable poke. Can't you guys see that the difference in damage between the two characters is astronomical?

You guys know very little about Cyrax and apparently even less about Noob. Again, Cyrax is a top 5 character in this game. The numbers should prove it.

Anything that is special cancel able becomes safe because of his up clones. I understand frame data very well, I am aware that on paper his moves are slow. Do you know anything about zoning? Noob is very good at it regardless of where he is on the screen because his strings have high priority. When I see tournament videos of you playing the characters maybe I'll take you seriously.

Your shots at Mustard are the equivalent of telling Tom Brady he doesn't know what hes talking about when it comes to Sub Zero or Reo when it comes to Mileena.

 

[NariTuba]

Noob matchup:

Seems to me the character has potential to control the pace of a match with fast projectiles if used judiciously. Trades power for speed. Once the opp fears the projectiles his normals can come into play as well as his throw. Damage output is only one variable among many to be discussed to determine matchup standing.

OP says 6-4
Trophy Club says 4-6
Mustard says 5-5 or 6-4

This puts the match-up somewhere around 5.5-4.5 for Cyrax. I left it at 5-5 because I havent really seen enough top level Noob tournament play, the character is not as popular among top players. Feel like we havent seen the character hit its peak yet. If any of you has some video to share itd be really appreciated. Let me know if you guys feel it should be changed to a 5.5-4.5 and Ill update my post above with the revised chart.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

Noob matchup comes down to playing him close to mid range where cyrax dominates him...noob's db3 (probably his best move) is easily neutralized with cyrax's d4, noob's df3 is unsafe on block from mid to close range, trading nets with running man is a win for cyrax. Basically an intelligent cyrax destroys noob at mid to close range.

If the fight is at a long distance and noob's spamming running man, just time him for a teleport and your're up close with him again.

i see it 6-4 cyrax imo.