General/Other - Sub-Zero Cryo Sub... make it a base form?

[Lokheit]

There is a reason why GM is the only SZ variation you see in tournaments.

I hope Cryo and UB get some love with KP2 but for now just know that GM combos are practical. Some times you settle for less damage because you froze him earlier or because of position but GM in the corner is a beast and his midscreen game gets you there really fast.

The most important thing, more than damage (many characters excel without damage, damaging combos are faaaaar from being the most important thing in fighting games, good setups, block pressure and crazy mixups are the real tools) is to always end your combos in JIP, F12, slight step back, clone. All the time. That's your winning setup (there are alternates but that's the most common and optimized AFAIK).

 

[UsedForGlue]

Ive said for ages that his two other variations are not good enough stand alone variations.

Unless he gets serious proper fixes, there will be absolutely no point in playing anything other than Grandmaster, and in his bad matches, they will remain bad matches, as his other variations do not help him in those bad matches.

I am sorry, but having another armoured move isn't a good enough reason to drop a klone, nor will taking no chip damage...

 

[boba_buster]

If they jus gave cryo something to do in the neutral he would be viable , something like ninjutsu scrops f2

 

[Lokheit]

If they jus gave cryo something to do in the neutral he would be viable , something like ninjutsu scrops f2

So much this. Something he can do to force opponents to take risky decissions.

I've been claiming for ages that the perfect tool for that would be the Air Hammer, a move with very little use that if upgraded could step up Cryos game. And there are many options:

- It could no longer knock down so it gives advantage instead (and restands in corner combos as the first hit is currently a restand).

- It could be similar to Jaquie's aerial DD4, with enough range to be a threat (current range is ridicously low) and if you meter burn it it can launch. With this when you jump over an opponent you can bait the AA and cancel into air hammer outside the AA reach and hitting them with the extended range. You could also JIK into Air Hammer in the neutral and it would still hit like Jaquie's.

- Just go nuts and make it a full screen unblockable true ground pound and EX version hitting knocked down opponents like Tremor, Goro, Jax or Shinnok. Free extra damage for a bar, full screen threat. This would be completly nuts but hey, many characters have a tool like this one, most of them are better than Cryo even without their ground pound and they're not broken because of it.

- Any combination of the above, even if it requires taking the 2 hits property of the move.

With this he could finally excel at his role of punishing opponents for taking bad decissions because he would have a tool to force them to take decissions and it wouldn't be game breaking as if he becomes predictable, the Air Hammer is slow and can be taken down by barefist uppercuts.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Warlock should be Quan's base variation. And replace his 3rd variation to "Tournament" where he'd be basically his MK9 self with 212 xx EX Rune loop.

DUUUUUDE. MK9 Quan with MKX Quan's portals and ex armor? I'm in!

 

[boba_buster]

I think giving him the last hit of his 111 string as a standing normal would be perfect , maybe make it an over head

 

[RM Ree]

~10f d2 would be pretty awesome. Knowing that jumping at Cryo isn't ever an option would force opponents to approach Sub's long ranged normals and pokes honestly and while on the ground. That's a very scary prospect considering the range the variation excels in and what momentum Cryo can build off something small like a stray d4 hit.

 

[MEN_TATALOR]

All he needs is ice shower like tremor.

 

[boba_buster]

~10f d2 would be pretty awesome. Knowing that jumping at Cryo isn't ever an option would force opponents to approach Sub's long ranged normals and pokes honestly and while on the ground. That's a very scary prospect considering the range the variation excels in and what momentum Cryo can build off something small like a stray d4 hit.

Problem is as of right now d4 is the only neutral tool cryo has right now

 

[RM Ree]

I mean he's got this?

http://testyourmight.com/threads/run-jab.57543/

In all seriousness, slide is a decent tool in neutral as well.

 

[boba_buster]

Slides punished by the entire cast

 

[boba_buster]

That run jab ....godlike

 

[RM Ree]

Slides punished by the entire cast

You do have to take some risks with slide, but the threat of it is almost as important as hitting with it. It stuffs a number of straight forward approaches, and it anti-airs most of the cast. As punishable as it is, an unreactable low from mid range that leads to HKD is valuable. Not saying it's godlike, but we shouldn't ignore what we have.

 

[subcryo]

I am new to mk and fighting games, so please do not be harsh with me, before even playing I dove into frame data for weeks and learned the importance of hit confirm for canceling, hit adv, recovery frames and so on. I started playing Cryo and really felt comfortable with his basics and basic kombos, I also like GM, but felt so dependent on the clone and canceling into the clone, if I did not execute it, I felt very defenseless, but in respect to GM, if you test it in the lab, you can for instance do b12xxclone and if the b12 is blocked and you still elicit the clone, GM is safe from punishment, if wrong let me know, did it with KL, block and reversal cyclone. So that is a major adv, but for me, and I am no good at this game yet, Cryo gives me a strong offense which is a good defense. To improve Cryo give him a faster start up frames for iceballs, hammer and B2, to really make him hard core make his B2 a true cancel into slide, iceballs ice burst, just an idea, remember his D2 is amazing with range and a great anti air usage, please , to all give me advise I am happy to accept your advise and critique, I really want to learn.

 

[boba_buster]

I am new to mk and fighting games, so please do not be harsh with me, before even playing I dove into frame data for weeks and learned the importance of hit confirm for canceling, hit adv, recovery frames and so on. I started playing Cryo and really felt comfortable with his basics and basic kombos, I also like GM, but felt so dependent on the clone and canceling into the clone, if I did not execute it, I felt very defenseless, but in respect to GM, if you test it in the lab, you can for instance do b12xxclone and if the b12 is blocked and you still elicit the clone, GM is safe from punishment, if wrong let me know, did it with KL, block and reversal cyclone. So that is a major adv, but for me, and I am no good at this game yet, Cryo gives me a strong offense which is a good defense. To improve Cryo give him a faster start up frames for iceballs, hammer and B2, to really make him hard core make his B2 a true cancel into slide, iceballs ice burst, just an idea, remember his D2 is amazing with range and a great anti air usage, please , to all give me advise I am happy to accept your advise and critique, I really want to learn.

Wow there's a lot wrong there...d2 sucks ,can't Aa if it's not fast enough to do on reaction. F4xxclone is the only safe clone cancel

 

[DDutchguy]

I am new to mk and fighting games, so please do not be harsh with me, before even playing I dove into frame data for weeks and learned the importance of hit confirm for canceling, hit adv, recovery frames and so on. I started playing Cryo and really felt comfortable with his basics and basic kombos, I also like GM, but felt so dependent on the clone and canceling into the clone, if I did not execute it, I felt very defenseless, but in respect to GM, if you test it in the lab, you can for instance do b12xxclone and if the b12 is blocked and you still elicit the clone, GM is safe from punishment, if wrong let me know, did it with KL, block and reversal cyclone. So that is a major adv, but for me, and I am no good at this game yet, Cryo gives me a strong offense which is a good defense. To improve Cryo give him a faster start up frames for iceballs, hammer and B2, to really make him hard core make his B2 a true cancel into slide, iceballs ice burst, just an idea, remember his D2 is amazing with range and a great anti air usage, please , to all give me advise I am happy to accept your advise and critique, I really want to learn.

Giving iceball notciably faster startup would very greatly augment Sub-Zero's full screen game which he really doesn't need. Its only purpose would mostly be to be annoying for the opponent

B2 is barely reactable or fuzzy guardable so increasing its startup wouldn't do very much besides makes it a stronger footsie tool, which Sub doesn't have much problems in as it is now. Also faster B2 may give more combo opportunities for Grandmaster in the corner which he certainly doesn't need.

Cancelable B2 is a bit weird, since it's a launcher it likely won't help to cancel into anything but slide. B2 would have to either not launch (bad idea) or all of Sub's specials would have to be really fast (a ton of unnecessary and major buffs that would be).

 

[subcryo]

Wow there's a lot wrong there...d2 sucks ,can't Aa if it's not fast enough to do on reaction. F4xxclone is the only safe clone cancel

Hi, I was able to f33xxclone a with KL in always block and reversal with cyclone and tornado and he did not touch me and same result with b12 and several others, if iam doing something wrong please let me know, also is there a thread on this site for practice sessions online, I am not any good but want to put in the long, long term effort to improve, if anyone wants to let me know, I do realize to get the full effects of play I need to be hammered over and over to learn

 

[Goat-City]

I am new to mk and fighting games, so please do not be harsh with me, before even playing I dove into frame data for weeks and learned the importance of hit confirm for canceling, hit adv, recovery frames and so on. I started playing Cryo and really felt comfortable with his basics and basic kombos, I also like GM, but felt so dependent on the clone and canceling into the clone, if I did not execute it, I felt very defenseless, but in respect to GM, if you test it in the lab, you can for instance do b12xxclone and if the b12 is blocked and you still elicit the clone, GM is safe from punishment, if wrong let me know, did it with KL, block and reversal cyclone. So that is a major adv, but for me, and I am no good at this game yet, Cryo gives me a strong offense which is a good defense. To improve Cryo give him a faster start up frames for iceballs, hammer and B2, to really make him hard core make his B2 a true cancel into slide, iceballs ice burst, just an idea, remember his D2 is amazing with range and a great anti air usage, please , to all give me advise I am happy to accept your advise and critique, I really want to learn.

If you want to get better and learn more about Sub Zero, just read up on him in the Sub Zero sub forum. There's tons of information and conversations about him in there.

 

[Lokheit]

Hi, I was able to f33xxclone a with KL in always block and reversal with cyclone and tornado and he did not touch me and same result with b12 and several others, if iam doing something wrong please let me know, also is there a thread on this site for practice sessions online, I am not any good but want to put in the long, long term effort to improve, if anyone wants to let me know, I do realize to get the full effects of play I need to be hammered over and over to learn

Try against advancing specials. F33 clone should be punished by all of them (try the other KL variations where he advances with yhe EX spin).

 

[subcryo]

If you want to get better and learn more about Sub Zero, just read up on him in the Sub Zero sub forum. There's tons of information and conversations about him in there.

I have been doing that and will continue, have only been playing for 45 days now, and only play offline for now, and only on hard mode, with a near 80 percent win, hard has taught me the importance of safe moves , hit adv and hit confirm to cancel into a special to get strings around 15 to 18 percent which is fine with me, I have also learned the value of using the most basic if the basic normals to start a cancel dt their fast start up, once I learn to get efficient and begin to discovery opening I hope to advance to more damaging basic kombo to cancel,into specials

 

[subcryo]

Try against advancing specials. F33 clone should be punished by all of them (try the other KL variations where he advances with yhe EX spin).

Will do

 

[boba_buster]

I have been doing that and will continue, have only been playing for 45 days now, and only play offline for now, and only on hard mode, with a near 80 percent win, hard has taught me the importance of safe moves , hit adv and hit confirm to cancel into a special to get strings around 15 to 18 percent which is fine with me, I have also learned the value of using the most basic if the basic normals to start a cancel dt their fast start up, once I learn to get efficient and begin to discovery opening I hope to advance to more damaging basic kombo to cancel,into specials

Omg kencheese we know it's you !!!!!

 

[WiseM0nkey]

I just want to be be cool and tell you that you dont know what you've started...

sub is quite a hot topic here

 

[RM Ree]

I'm pretty sure @subcryo is @kencheese

 

[boba_buster]

I'm pretty sure @subcryo is @kencheese

That's what I said