General/Other - Sub-Zero Cryo Sub... make it a base form?

[TheLoneSailor]

hello there guys

not sure how to really start off the discussion... but here goes

when i first started playing MKX on the PC, i bought it during deployment (im a naval sailor), and downloaded it during one of my port visits

and subzero being a childhood hero of mine, it was natural for me to main using him

at first the UNBREAKABLE appealed to me very much, and since i was a gamer, i had beaten the lesser players of my ship, that was ofcourse till the ship had an MKX tournament

i beat everyone, till i met this guy, who mained with D'VORAH, and well then, i realized the weakness of the UNBREAKABLE, which would be to neutral jump and get a free bounce, apparently he walked off with another win under his belt, as he was the ship's champion

another tournament came later on, after realizing my defeat forced me to change to GRANDMASTER, which was a better choice, because i actually came out on top, and won this time, not suffering from the same weakness that unbreakable had

i later faced another player using TAKEDA, who was better, and finally discovered GRAND MASTERS weakness, which was basically being outzoned and didnt do enough damage against him, while he would do so much, i was forced to use CRYOMANCER,

i was told that CRYO was the best, but i refused to used it, but...i was astonished to find out, that CRYO was apparently the best, despite not having much utility other than increased combo strings, CRYO does so much more damage, for alot less, the other variations were basically gimmicky, sure you could be a little bit more defensive...but when it was time to do the combos....GRANDMASTER and UNBREAKABLE, didnt really do enough damage for me


TLDR

why not simply make CRYOMANCER a base form for sub-zero?, the other variations, feel quite gimmicky

and just add another variation to replace it and call it the.... i dunno, CLASSIC VARIATION

why is it classic?...because it would include some classic move sets from the classic MK subzero

this new variation, will include the shooting the ice in the air, and being able to control going in front of the enemy, or behind the enemy, just like in MK3, or the best example would be the way TREMOR does his rock drop move

and the 2nd move would be, being able to freeze the floor like he did in MK9

thoughts on this?

 

[Olcadan13]

no

 

[Mighty Durpyena]

I have never seen anyone say Cryomancer is better than Grandmaster lol

 

[Lokheit]

Nope. And GM is still his best variation by a loooooong shot (Cryo is better than Unbreakable which is garbage though).

From that story, I think it's more a problem about practicing with each variation and learn what to do with their tools than anything. Also if a variation is supposedly stronger than the others, making it base form plus the tricks from the other variations would be overkill so even if that was the case, it wouldn't be an option.

 

[Baconlord]

grandmaster with cryo's damage? your going to give me nightmares man.

 

[Dinosaur]

think the oceans gettin to ya mate

 

[TheLoneSailor]

Nope. And GM is still his best variation by a loooooong shot (Cryo is better than Unbreakable which is garbage though).

From that story, I think it's more a problem about practicing with each variation and learn what to do with their tools than anything. Also if a variation is supposedly stronger than the others, making it base form plus the tricks from the other variations would be overkill so even if that was the case, it wouldn't be an option.

well, i mean, im not saying that make it like that, just mash them all together and not balance it out

ofcourse testing should be done

this is just an idea i came up with, wanted to see peoples thoughts, whether or not it does happen, doesnt really bother me, CRYO will probably still be better to me, because of all the damage you can do with it

GRANDMASTER, just slows down the enemy, making the enemy needing to rethink his rush down, but still, i dont really see the damage output being that high

 

[stamatis]

For me it is hard to find a 4th person to our community, and the dude here tells me that he had a tournament on a ship.WTF.

 

[TheLoneSailor]

For me it is hard to find a 4th person to our community, and the dude here tells me that he had a tournament on a ship.WTF.

well to be fair, when you're on an naval aircraft carrier, with people coming in from all over the country, and different walks of life, you're bound to meet a group that plays

i met this guy, who apparently was a TOP 8th player in the world on my ship before deployment started, he was the culinary specialist, and the only one to ever mop the floor with me the way he did

he was the guy i mentioned in the OP, who used TAKEDA

he had screenshots of his stats, so theres not really a reason for me not to believe him

but im glad he did kick my ass, it made me a better player

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Warlock should be Quan's base variation. And replace his 3rd variation to "Tournament" where he'd be basically his MK9 self with 212 xx EX Rune loop.

 

[Lokheit]

well, i mean, im not saying that make it like that, just mash them all together and not balance it out

ofcourse testing should be done

this is just an idea i came up with, wanted to see peoples thoughts, whether or not it does happen, doesnt really bother me, CRYO will probably still be better to me, because of all the damage you can do with it

GRANDMASTER, just slows down the enemy, making the enemy needing to rethink his rush down, but still, i dont really see the damage output being that high

Grandmaster can deal 48% damage WITHOUT SPENDING A BAR in the corner. His midscreen damage is low but his midscreen combos put you in the corner without much effort, from there you jail your opponent with the clone and GM >>>>>>> Cryo in the corner.

Cryo has better midscreen damage, but is meter hungry and has no tools at all to deal with opponents to start his combos, which means you rely on punishing either on block or excellent reads.

Having the tools is way more important than having the damage, and GM also outdamages Cryo in the corner.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

If it was upto me i would have given him 4 universal special moves.

Universal
1.Ice-ball
2.Slide
3.Tombstone teleport
4.Surf(slide becomes surf when performed on frozen opponent)

GrandMaster
1. Ice burst
2. Ice klone
3. Klone toss
4. Klone shatter


Cryomancer
1. Hammer
2. Air-hammer
3. Dagger toss

Unbreakable
1. Ice-aura (normal version reduces damage and ex heal sub zero if he doesn't get hit)
2. Icy counter (MKvsDC version which can be used offensively and defensively)
3. Ground freeze

 

[TheLoneSailor]

Grandmaster can deal 48% damage WITHOUT SPENDING A BAR in the corner. His midscreen damage is low but his midscreen combos put you in the corner without much effort, from there you jail your opponent with the clone and GM >>>>>>> Cryo in the corner.

Cryo has better midscreen damage, but is meter hungry and has no tools at all to deal with opponents to start his combos, which means you rely on punishing either on block or excellent reads.

Having the tools is way more important than having the damage, and GM also outdamages Cryo in the corner.

out of curiosity, whats the highest damage output GM can do in a corner?

 

[RM Ree]

well, i mean, im not saying that make it like that, just mash them all together and not balance it out

ofcourse testing should be done

this is just an idea i came up with, wanted to see peoples thoughts, whether or not it does happen, doesnt really bother me, CRYO will probably still be better to me, because of all the damage you can do with it

GRANDMASTER, just slows down the enemy, making the enemy needing to rethink his rush down, but still, i dont really see the damage output being that high

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but Grandmaster can do more damage than Cryomancer can.

You seem new-ish to the game, and that's perfectly okay. But I'd recommend digging into the forums a bit deeper, or asking some other more experienced players to show you around

If casual play is what you're looking for, maybe just glance at the combo thread for a few minutes and practice what you find.

 

[TheLoneSailor]

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but Grandmaster can do more damage than Cryomancer can.

You seem new-ish to the game, and that's perfectly okay. But I'd recommend digging into the forums a bit deeper, or asking some other more experienced players to show you around

If casual play is what you're looking for, maybe just glance at the combo thread for a few minutes and practice what you find.

im not really new per say.... but its good to know he can do that with GM in the corner

however.... the question is, is it practical

the thing with CRYO, is that he can use that hammer to perform mix ups, and keep the enemy guessing, and rush the enemy down

as for GM, watching the vids... some just has to start off with a clone cornering the enemy... i have a feeling it may not be practical against characters that could teleport out of the way....or just meter to save themselves from it

btw, whats the highest GM can do?...the highest ive done with CRYO, would be 53 percent corner

 

[Lokheit]

out of curiosity, whats the highest damage output GM can do in a corner?

I know he can get 58% with 3 bars it might be more (though there is no need to spend bars for damage with GM when meterless damage is so good and he should spend meter for utility). Cryo's best 3 bars combo is 53%.

 

[Kogia]

It sounds like you just need to do what I'm doing and that's familiarise yourself with matchups more and learn your variations.

You may not be as good as you seem to think you are, you got beat by a couple of people and seem to straight away be assuming it must be something wrong with the character!

 

[Lokheit]

im not really new per say.... but its good to know he can do that with GM in the corner

however.... the question is, is it practical

the thing with CRYO, is that he can use that hammer to perform mix ups, and keep the enemy guessing, and rush the enemy down

as for GM, watching the vids... some just has to start off with a clone cornering the enemy... i have a feeling it may not be practical against characters that could teleport out of the way....or just meter to save themselves from it

- Cryo hammer can be jumped over on reaction, no need to even block it, so it's not for mixups (except from a F4 into hammer starter but even then it's so slow you see it comming from a mile).

- All high damage GM combos in the corner end with F12 which gives you time to step just a bit back and use the clone and still be safe from any wake up attemp, which means they're in the torture chamber again.

 

[TheLoneSailor]

- Cryo hammer can be jumped over on reaction, no need to even block it, so it's not for mixups (except from a F4 into hammer starter but even then it's so slow you see it comming from a mile).

- All high damage GM combos in the corner end with F12 which gives you time to step just a bit back and use the clone and still be safe from any wake up attemp, which means they're in the torture chamber again.

oh i see, so basically dont be afraid to go and pressure them

because GM's ice klone will just save you after your enemy blocked your combo string correct?

 

[Lokheit]

oh i see, so basically dont be afraid to go and pressure them

because GM's ice klone will just save you after your enemy blocked your combo string correct?

There are also many setups to break armor with GM, you can even break Goro's punchwalk armor (need to breaks 2 hits of armor before being able to combo into him) with the correct setup.

There are also many ways to counter teleporters, they might not have such a hard time against the clone but most teleports are really unsafe and good GMs even use the clone as a parry on good reads.

 

[SM StarGazer]

- Cryo hammer can be jumped over on reaction, no need to even block it, so it's not for mixups (except from a F4 into hammer starter but even then it's so slow you see it comming from a mile).

- All high damage GM combos in the corner end with F12 which gives you time to step just a bit back and use the clone and still be safe from any wake up attemp, which means they're in the torture chamber again.

It's called the blender.

 

[TheLoneSailor]

perhaps CRYO is not what GM need

perhaps, he needs a move 3 hit combo that starts with an overhead?

one of my gripes with subby, is that his overhead move, is a bit slow though

great move as it opens up combo strings...still slow though

 

[RM Truth]

grandmaster with cryo's damage? your going to give me nightmares man.

What if I told you Grandmaster already does Cryomancer's damage for no meter.

 

[Lokheit]

It's called the blender.

Yeah I was thinking about basketball terms lol (though isn't the blender only applicable when you have no other option than block? There are still some counter strategies that GM has to take into account).

 

[Baconlord]

What if I told you Grandmaster already does Cryomancer's damage for no meter.

I would ask you to elaborate. If I found out he could do it midscreen I would probably leave the country and rethink my life.