General/Other - Sub-Zero Could Sub-Zero's sinister-sounding voice be a viable factor as to who he is?

[SZSR]

Smoke was posessed by some type of demon which gave him his powers , It would be cool if they expanded on that and told us what the demon wanted or where it came from.

I'd personally like for that too, I don't know why the Enenra possessed him rather than killing him

So you feel he's a really old SubZero? I believe back in MK1, it was stated that Bi Han (And Scorpion) were 32 years old.

That would make his father pretty damn old by this game's timeline.

This is correct according to the official manual:
http://www.replacementdocs.com/download.php?view.1255

 

[Tony at Home]

It's actually a must-have for me that his voice be sinister like Bi-Han. A not-really-evil Kuai Lang voice is actually a deal-breaker for me.

 

[OutworldKeith]

It's Kuai Liang IMO.

1. His 3rd variation is called "GRANDMASTER"
2. His 2nd variation "UNBREAKABLE" has his MK9 mask
3. Also read his "GRANDMASTER" variation's indicator has the Dragon Medallion on his costume

 

[TheSpore]

Took a while for me to piece this together, but here we go.

It never is said exactly when in history Scorpion's clan and family are murdered, its just seems to always have been assumed it in ancient China. Which makes no sense as far as seeing that MK1 takes place more in present day. It never states that Cryomancers age slower, granted most Outworld races age hardly at all, but Bi Han and Kui Liang are hybrids of human and Cryonmancers, so we have to assume that they just age slowly.

Now the above is a speculation as to how its even possible the two Subs exist in present day.

To explain it another way the one who did murder Scorpion's clan and family was Quan Chi, who we know manipulated and framed Sub-Zero for the murders and we also know Chi is far older than dirt and has existed since God knows how long.

So, the idea that this could possibly be Sub-Zero's father is plausible and he wouldn't be that old, considering the Lin Kui could have destroyed Scorpion's clan in the past, since the Lin Kui survived all the way to present day, its possible Scorpion's family was murdered by Chi and his clan was killed off by Lin Kui. Oh yeah the Father was a full blood Outworlder too at least this according to what storyline cannon I can find online.

Damn that was confusing!

 

[trufenix]

@TheSpore,
MK Mythologies explains the timetable pretty point blank. Scorpion and the Shirai Ryu are Japanese. They wear yellow variants of the Lin Kuei outfits because they are arrogant douchebags. Quan Chi asked him and Sub (Bi Han) (representatives of the two strongest ninja clans, though Lin Kuei aren't ninja) to find him the amulet. In the end they wound up battling to the death over it and Scorpion lost. As "thanks", Quan Chi exterminated the Shirai Ryu right then and there. Scorpion gets to hell and finds his entire world ended, and Quan Chi says hey, it was that douchebag that killed you. Wanna get him back? It is a safe assumption that if Scorpion had won, the Lin Kuei would've got the same treatment, in fact, the new origin of Noob pretty much establishes quan's goal was to get both of them in his pocket from the start. Why Quan Chi didn't just go slaughter all the Lin Kuei anyway is never addressed, but maybe he does have a shred of honor.

Either way, the easiest plot hole to work new sub in is Noob flies into a soulnado and is never heard from again. Maybe he gets reattached to his soul by Raiden and comes out a man (Liu Kang). Cue guitar riff. Or the elder gods give him his soul back because Sektor and Cyrax are fucking up the Lin Kuei by working for Outworld (Scorpion). Or maybe he begs the elder gods to send him back for revenge when he finds out his brother's been turned into a robot freak (Irony). Its been 25 years, anything could have happened. I don't think the MK9 breadcrumbs are worth trying to follow. I think the fact that this Sub seems more ruthless is a pretty safe indication its Bi Han.

 

[TheSpore]

@TheSpore,
MK Mythologies explains the timetable pretty point blank. Scorpion and the Shirai Ryu are Japanese. They wear yellow variants of the Lin Kuei outfits because they are arrogant douchebags. Quan Chi asked him and Sub (Bi Han) (representatives of the two strongest ninja clans, though Lin Kuei aren't ninja) to find him the amulet. In the end they wound up battling to the death over it and Scorpion lost. As "thanks", Quan Chi exterminated the Shirai Ryu right then and there. Scorpion gets to hell and finds his entire world ended, and Quan Chi says hey, it was that douchebag that killed you. Wanna get him back? It is a safe assumption that if Scorpion had won, the Lin Kuei would've got the same treatment, in fact, the new origin of Noob pretty much establishes quan's goal was to get both of them in his pocket from the start. Why Quan Chi didn't just go slaughter all the Lin Kuei anyway is never addressed, but maybe he does have a shred of honor.

Either way, the easiest plot hole to work new sub in is Noob flies into a soulnado and is never heard from again. Maybe he gets reattached to his soul by Raiden and comes out a man (Liu Kang). Cue guitar riff. Or the elder gods give him his soul back because Sektor and Cyrax are fucking up the Lin Kuei by working for Outworld (Scorpion). Or maybe he begs the elder gods to send him back for revenge when he finds out his brother's been turned into a robot freak (Irony). Its been 25 years, anything could have happened. I don't think the MK9 breadcrumbs are worth trying to follow. I think the fact that this Sub seems more ruthless is a pretty safe indication its Bi Han.

Well that explains a lot I never folowed or played the mythologies game, but I thought that wasn't considered cannon anymore, either good find there.

 

[EarlyReflections]

hooooo, another convo around Mk's mythos. love it!

Αs the MK mythologies are canon to both timelines, Quan Chi eradicated the Shirai Ryu as a part of the agreement he set with Lin Kuei's Grandmaster( Sektor's father). The deal was Quan Chi killing Hanzo's clan, so the Grandmaster can "lend"one of his best assassins( Bi-Han) to steal the map of elements, and furthermore the Amulet. All these take place around a year before Mortal Kombat 1, so no. Scorpion's family and clan didn't die in ancient China, but around a year before MK1's events.

If I recall correctly, the Edenians have a big lifespan, not all outworlders. Subzeroes are indeed descendants of the outworld, but you can see Kuai Liang significantly aged in MK Deadly alliance, while in mk2 is around 30… So it seems he ages normally, unless the dragon medallion which later acquires, grants him youth or something.


I don't understand why the internet has a boner for "bad guys". Why you want a "bad"subzero? one angry puppet Scorpion is not enough? Bi- Han as a ruthless assassin who is a minion to the grandmaster's plans and later becoming a hell's wrath is not enough?
Kuai Liang started as an assassin for the Lin Kuei anyway.Then later committed on becoming Raiden's trusted warrior, while working to make the lin kuei clan a force of good,but always workin'in the shadows. That's a great archetype for an anti-hero, much more interesting than anything around revenge, anger, or becoming the world's best bad guy. fuck.

I wouldn't like a third brother or whatever lin kuei as Sub-zero. seems cheap. Kuai is one of the most developed characters in terms of personality , and i would like to keep it that way.

 

[OutworldKeith]

seems to be a new sub-zero, or just Bi Han (maybe the soulnado made him turn back from his Noob form to once again being Sub-Zero) ?

nah look at his mask it's "robot-ish".

Don't forget, they're cyborgs not robots. They still have human flesh under the cybernetics.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Nops, cryomancers age slowly because they're not original earthrealmers, their race migrated from outworld.

All characters from outworld, and any other realm age slower than humans

Nah son, he begs to differ

 

[xenogorgeous]

nah look at his mask it's "robot-ish".

Don't forget, they're cyborgs not robots. They still have human flesh under the cybernetics.

maybe ..... only if Cyber SZ somehow learned how to convert back to his human form, like some in MK Wikia said that Sektor is supposed to be able to do it ..... anyway, when you think about the cyber version of the MK ninjas, you can see more or less like them as a some kind of advanced "robocop" type : a human skeleton, a human brain, some muscle flesh tissue however, covered by metal and cybernetic electric wires and hardware technology, with no pain nerves ..... pretty bizarre stuff that could be disgusting to figure out how to be disassembled hehe

the Bi Han idea seems more logical at this point ..... Noob Saibot probably did not die in that soulnado, and his soul became human again, and his ice powers came back to him

 

[Eddy Wang]

Nah son, he begs to differ

He is a decendant, his blood is compromised

 

[OutworldKeith]

maybe ..... only if Cyber SZ somehow learned how to convert back to his human form, like some in MK Wikia said that Sektor is supposed to be able to do it ..... anyway, when you think about the cyber version of the MK ninjas, you can see more or less like them as a some kind of advanced "robocop" type : a human skeleton, a human brain, some muscle flesh tissue however, covered by metal and cybernetic electric wires and hardware technology, with no pain nerves ..... pretty bizarre stuff that could be disgusting to figure out how to be disassembled hehe

the Bi Han idea seems more logical at this point ..... Noob Saibot probably did not die in that soulnado, and his soul became human again, and his ice powers came back to him

Interesting theory. However, I'm not a believer simply because I want Noob in the game. Plus there are plenty of clues pointing to this Sub-Zero being Kuai Liang like the mask in his UNBREAKABLE variation or the GRANDMASTER variation having the dragon medallion looking thing. In his dialogue with Scorpion he says "I tire of maintaining my innocence...". Meaning it's most likely Kuai Liang because he didn't actually kill Scorpion or his clan. Depends on if Scorpion is referring to his clan or himself.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Interesting theory. However, I'm not a believer simply because I want Noob in the game. Plus there are plenty of clues pointing to this Sub-Zero being Kuai Liang like the mask in his UNBREAKABLE variation or the GRANDMASTER variation having the dragon medallion looking thing. In his dialogue with Scorpion he says "I tire of maintaining my innocence...". Meaning it's most likely Kuai Liang because he didn't actually kill Scorpion or his clan. Depends on if Scorpion is referring to his clan or himself.

yep .... most likely we'll have to see what Ed Boon did to MK story continuity this time, and see if things fit in the MK story line .... let's see how logical everything will be explained this time when in MKX story mode .... for now we can just do a bunch of speculation tryouts, hehe

 

[OutworldKeith]

yep .... most likely we'll have to see what Ed Boon did to MK story continuity this time, and see if things fit in the MK story line .... let's see how logical everything will be explained this time when in MKX story mode .... for now we can just do a bunch of speculation tryouts, hehe

It's Kuai Liang. Ed just hit my cell up and confirmed lol

 

[trufenix]

If I recall correctly, the Edenians have a big lifespan, not all outworlders. Subzeroes are indeed descendants of the outworld, but you can see Kuai Liang significantly aged in MK Deadly alliance, while in mk2 is around 30… So it seems he ages normally, unless the dragon medallion which later acquires, grants him youth or something.

There's really no data to suggest how old the cryomancers live or how they died out, but given there aren't really any around in Earth except the two Subs and Frost (and even they are probably hybrid children) its a safe assumption they die normally. The only confirmed outworld natives are:

Shao Kahn is said to be "ages" old, but worked for Onaga who was sealed away at least a millenia ago and ruled for milennia.
Bo Rai Cho is another outworld native, who seems pretty old and only has about 200 years of history on him.
Li Mei is another outworld native, seems pretty young but its not said.
Reiko (possibly an outworld native) fought in Shinnok's first war against the elder gods which is also stated as pretty long ago.

The other kinda outworld natives are:
The Saurians (reptiles people) seem like they age pretty slow, but they are originally from Earth so maybe not.
The Tarkatan are said to be either half netherrealmian or at least originally netherrealmian, but they don't know who Onaga is so they can't have been around that long. Ashrah, (another Netherrealm native) is said to be "ages" old though so its unknown how long netherrealm natives live either..
The Moroi (vampires) seem to live obnoxiously long, but its not said how long ago their realm was merged, only known that Shao Kahn did it, which means they haven't been in Outworld as long as Onaga. She also doesn't seem to know (or care) about the Dragon King so she can't be that old.

I don't understand why the internet has a boner for "bad guys". Why you want a "bad"subzero? one angry puppet Scorpion is not enough? Bi- Han as a ruthless assassin who is a minion to the grandmaster's plans and later becoming a hell's wrath is not enough?
Kuai Liang started as an assassin for the Lin Kuei anyway.Then later committed on becoming Raiden's trusted warrior, while working to make the lin kuei clan a force of good,but always workin'in the shadows. That's a great archetype for an anti-hero, much more interesting than anything around revenge, anger, or becoming the world's best bad guy. fuck

I wouldn't like a third brother or whatever lin kuei as Sub-zero. seems cheap. Kuai is one of the most developed characters in terms of personality , and i would like to keep it that way.

In my opinion (and most) the rivalry between the two of them requires Sub Zero to be a villain. The second you make one of them a hero the other becomes the villain and you turn the rivalry into righteousness, its why both of their plots spun completely out of control by Deception. The problem is Scorpion is a complete one trick pony, if you take Sub Zero away, he has nothing which some might be okay with, but NRS put him on the damned logo, so there you go, evil Sub Zero lives.

 

[zerosebaz]

That guy being the father or a new random Lin Kuei would be lame, and I hope it's not the case. I believe that is probably Kuai Liang, but I also got that feeling when watching the videos, he seems different and could be Bi-Han, I just doubt it.

 

[Subby Z]

I hope it's Kuai, that's all I know.

Also @truefenix no Sub-Zero does not have to be evil. Ya know both Sub-Zero and Scorpion are popular. Why not have them (and this may be a shocker) work together and squash this beef.

Bi-Han returning as Sub-Zero would be shitty. He's Noob Saibot now. That character shouldn't exist without him.Plus I agree with one of the other users. Don't we have enough evil, pissed off guys going around? Sub-Zero is better off as the good guy loner.

Oh and Sub-Zero's plot wasn't out of control. A lot of people consider him one of the best developed characters in the series. Scorpion needs to find his own shit to do, and stop dragging Sub-Zero down with him

 

[LionHeart V1]

I hope it's Kuai, that's all I know.

Also @truefenix no Sub-Zero does not have to be evil. Ya know both Sub-Zero and Scorpion are popular. Why not have them (and this may be a shocker) work together and squash this beef.

Bi-Han returning as Sub-Zero would be shitty. He's Noob Saibot now. That character shouldn't exist without him.Plus I agree with one of the other users. Don't we have enough evil, pissed off guys going around? Sub-Zero is better off as the good guy loner.

Oh and Sub-Zero's plot wasn't out of control. A lot of people consider him one of the best developed characters in the series. Scorpion needs to find his own shit to do, and stop dragging Sub-Zero down with him

Younger Subzero is without a doubt the best developed character in the series. No one comes close IMO.

 

[FOXSOLID]

@TheSpore,
MK Mythologies explains the timetable pretty point blank. Scorpion and the Shirai Ryu are Japanese. They wear yellow variants of the Lin Kuei outfits because they are arrogant douchebags. Quan Chi asked him and Sub (Bi Han) (representatives of the two strongest ninja clans, though Lin Kuei aren't ninja) to find him the amulet. In the end they wound up battling to the death over it and Scorpion lost. As "thanks", Quan Chi exterminated the Shirai Ryu right then and there. Scorpion gets to hell and finds his entire world ended, and Quan Chi says hey, it was that douchebag that killed you. Wanna get him back? It is a safe assumption that if Scorpion had won, the Lin Kuei would've got the same treatment, in fact, the new origin of Noob pretty much establishes quan's goal was to get both of them in his pocket from the start. Why Quan Chi didn't just go slaughter all the Lin Kuei anyway is never addressed, but maybe he does have a shred of honor.

Either way, the easiest plot hole to work new sub in is Noob flies into a soulnado and is never heard from again. Maybe he gets reattached to his soul by Raiden and comes out a man (Liu Kang). Cue guitar riff. Or the elder gods give him his soul back because Sektor and Cyrax are fucking up the Lin Kuei by working for Outworld (Scorpion). Or maybe he begs the elder gods to send him back for revenge when he finds out his brother's been turned into a robot freak (Irony). Its been 25 years, anything could have happened. I don't think the MK9 breadcrumbs are worth trying to follow. I think the fact that this Sub seems more ruthless is a pretty safe indication its Bi Han.

The part about what the Shirai Ryu wear is false. Scorpion wore a yellow Lin Kuei suit to mock SubZero and the Lin Kuei as cowards.


This is why I hate Mythologies....it's so poorly written and in my eyes, inaccurate. Hanzo Hasashi wearing Scorpion's outfit (Lin Kuei suit in yellow) in the initial battle with SubZero made no sense because he hadn't actually BECOME Scorpion yet.

On top of that, they have him encounter SubZero a second time...now he IS Scorpion and they had him wearing his MK3 suit.

http://www.kamidogu.com/images/comics/mk01_12.jpg

The comic illustration above from Midway comics (which is canon) clearly displays SubZero in terror which means that was the first time he had encountered Scorpion.....so how is it that in Mythologies, he fights Scorpion BEFORE the first tournament? To me personally, that was a non canon, filler fight. Mythologies just blows my mind with it's inaccuracies.

Ugh, I really hate that game.

EDIT: Also, it wasn't an amulet, it was a map they were both sent to retrieve.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

Here's a thought, but what if the minute Noob Saibot fell into the soulnado, he split into two--Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot? It's plausible for him to become grandmaster in a span of 25 years. I mean, this guy has impressive feats if you play Mythologies.

As Sub-Zero, Bi Han will want to destroy Noob Saibot and save his brother from Quan Chi.

 

[Subby Z]

Here's a thought, but what if the minute Noob Saibot fell into the soulnado, he split into two--Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot? It's plausible for him to become grandmaster in a span of 25 years. I mean, this guy has impressive feats if you play Mythologies.

As Sub-Zero, Bi Han will want to destroy Noob Saibot and save his brother from Quan Chi.

Would rather have a new Sub-Zero than this. Just No. I do not want Bi-Han as Sub-Zero. IMO he was never the real Sub-Zero anyway. He was just a prerequisite for the actual Sub-Zero.lol

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Sub-Zero also freezes himself in Shao Kahn's armour when he says "I will freeze your soul" Skip to 1:00

And Cyber Sub-Zero's arcade ending?

looks like kahns armor to me. lol

 

[Pterodactyl]

It's the father.

Or a third brother.

this Subzero looks a little too young to be the father, an if Crymancers age anything like humans, he'd be old as shit 25 years after MK9.

 

[zerosebaz]

IMO he was never the real Sub-Zero anyway. He was just a prerequisite for the actual Sub-Zero.lol

This thread would seem to show that there are still a lot of people who consider Bi-han the real Sub-Zero and would like to have him back in that role. Kuai Liang is a good developed character, and he has carried the mantle of Sub-zero for almost all games, but what Bi-Han did with it is both more impressive and relevant to the storyline. How can you say he is not the real Sub-zero when he is the one with his own game?

 

[MKF30]

Smoke was killed as a child sacrficed by a cult to a smoke demo, then the smoke demon possessed tomas and thus gave him new life and powers.

Took a while for me to piece this together, but here we go.

It never is said exactly when in history Scorpion's clan and family are murdered, its just seems to always have been assumed it in ancient China. Which makes no sense as far as seeing that MK1 takes place more in present day. It never states that Cryomancers age slower, granted most Outworld races age hardly at all, but Bi Han and Kui Liang are hybrids of human and Cryonmancers, so we have to assume that they just age slowly.

Now the above is a speculation as to how its even possible the two Subs exist in present day.

To explain it another way the one who did murder Scorpion's clan and family was Quan Chi, who we know manipulated and framed Sub-Zero for the murders and we also know Chi is far older than dirt and has existed since God knows how long.

So, the idea that this could possibly be Sub-Zero's father is plausible and he wouldn't be that old, considering the Lin Kui could have destroyed Scorpion's clan in the past, since the Lin Kui survived all the way to present day, its possible Scorpion's family was murdered by Chi and his clan was killed off by Lin Kui. Oh yeah the Father was a full blood Outworlder too at least this according to what storyline cannon I can find online.

Damn that was confusing!

Scorp was originally killed by bi han in mkm, before mk 1...hanzo came back as scorpion officially, during time quan chi took advantage and killed the shirai ryu and scorps family, framing sub zero. Scorp believed this and stopped at nothing in the mk 1 tournament to kill bi han.this