Command Grab - Bomb Trap PATCH?

[nubi]

wow talk about over nerfing i was afraid NRS would do something stupid like this, i guess its back to street fighter. GG NRS [MAD][/MAD]

 

[9.95]

This really only needed the tech window... that would have been enough...

NERF BAT BEATING!!!

 

[babalook]

this was so uncalled for, cyrax is actually going to be a bad character now, before all he had was big dmg and the fear of CG because he wasn't a great zoner, he's not a good rush down character, and he can't handle rush down. Im propably not guna use him any more i mean does NRS even look to see what the people want because it seems like there patching mindlessly a good example is them buffing kano(very good character as is now will probably be top tier)

 

[DanCock]

cyrax is one of the best zoners in the game. he puts all the zoning characters in check and he has a teleport. his net is a great anti air, you can put out 2 bombs and a net on screen at the same time, that super great zoning. cyrax will still be s+ tier, bomb trap just made him stupid.


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[Sultani]

bomb trap didn't make him stupid. the bug with the command grab tech frames did. Fix that and you fix the problem without completely breaking cyrax.

What's stupid about a juggle combo that does 35% that's completely breakable at every hit and now easily techable at the beginning?

It's really too bad that NRS went overkill because of people like this complaining when they don't even really understand what the problem was.

Since you want to talk about the stupidity of certain mechanics and characters though. Ermac's jump kick teleport tk lift tk push. Half of it is unbreakable, does a ridiculous amount of damage for the amount of hits and the ease of doing it. Theres like 7 characters that have huge juggles that only require you to push the same three buttons over and over. This isn't killer instinct. This is overkill.. end of story.

 

[Juggs]

So instead of complaining, someone mind telling me what happened?

 

[scrubby ike]

Why not just make the bombs blockable with a low block or something. Then you can get some interesting mixup situations with overheads, etc. What other projectiles are unblockable?

 

[nubi]

cyrax is one of the best zoners in the game. he puts all the zoning characters in check and he has a teleport. his net is a great anti air, you can put out 2 bombs and a net on screen at the same time, that super great zoning. cyrax will still be s+ tier, bomb trap just made him stupid.

his net is one of if not the slowest projectile in the game and has a cooldown before it can be used a second time he's a mediocre zoner at best, mediocre rushdown, no low combo starters and cant deal with pressure to well also his teleport is one of the worst in the game, hes an all round below average character who excels at bomb set ups, take that away and what do you get?.

also according to Tom human cyrax (who has a much better teleport may i add) is something like the 3rd worst character in the game, what does that tell you?

 

[xZEPPELIx]

cyrax is one of the best zoners in the game. he puts all the zoning characters in check and he has a teleport. his net is a great anti air, you can put out 2 bombs and a net on screen at the same time, that super great zoning. cyrax will still be s+ tier, bomb trap just made him stupid.


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Net gets HELLA punished by any character with a teleport. Bombs are only a minor annoyance. Noob wrecks Cyrax for free. If someone baits the teleport they get a free uppercut.

 

[DanCock]

if any one tries jumping at cyrax his net catches you, his net is not slow it can catch sindel if she does an air ball cause the hit box os hugeeee if any character does a projectile at the same time as net the hits trade and cyrax gets full combo.

the bombs roll around on the ground, his air throw move is a quick way for him to get out of trouble and he's still going to get a free 50/50 which is more then most of the cast in the game. l


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[DanCock]

I wish I can debate this more but I need to get back to work.



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[Sultani]

Riddick. what happened is that apparently NRS listened to the whining about the bomb trap. On top of fixing the tech / break frames of the CG from 2 - 3 to 10 (which was all they needed to do and was a known bug...), they nerfed the mid bomb trap following pulling it off...

Net to CG = 100% techable, which is totally fine. But apparently that wasn't enough for some reason.. Hey, why stop at fixing the problem, right? why not keep going and just completely break cyrax?

@ Dan. Cyrax cannot do a CG bomb trap combo if the opponent is netted in the air even befor the patch. Post patch, it won't matter where they're netted becase the CG will get teched from a net 100% of the time (which again is fine). The most damage cyrax will be able to do by netting someone without using a meter is like 29% now, and even that requires a jp, bp, fp, net first. He's going to suck now.

 

[nubi]

if any one tries jumping at cyrax his net catches you, his net is not slow it can catch sindel if she does an air ball cause the hit box os hugeeee if any character does a projectile at the same time as net the hits trade and cyrax gets full combo.

thats total BS you can forward jump or neutral jump the net and almost all characters have time to block the net after a projectile, rarely do they trade

 

[DanCock]

thats total BS you can forward jump or neutral jump the net and almost all characters have time to block the net after a projectile, rarely do they trade

im not saying jumping after net is in the air I said anti air. meaning if any character tries jumping at cyrax your eating a net. full screen, when he puts out 2 bombs on screen His foe is at his mercy he controls what's going on that's why zoning characters can't zone him. yea ok raiden, ermac, Kung Lao may be able to kick his ass harder now but were talking full cast here. not just high tiers.




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[DanCock]

cyrax can do a combo pop u up put out a net then wait for you to drop to then get a free 50/50. that's crazy, that's pretty much a safe jump and he has it, most of the safe jumps have been removed from the game.

I can't believe you guys are this upset, cyrax is a monster.

ok now I'm fully done you guys can all call me a scrub or hate me for liking the removal of the bomb trap whatever.
sorry now going back to work. later.


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[nubi]

cyrax can do a combo pop u up put out a net then wait for you to drop to then get a free 50/50. that's crazy, that's pretty much a safe jump and he has it, most of the safe jumps have been removed from the game.

letting someone recover from a net is not a 50/50, nor do i believe you know what a safe jump is...

 

[DanCock]

letting someone recover from a net is not a 50/50, nor do i believe you know what a safe jump is...

your right I know nothing, just like cyrax can't anti air with net. continue on, ignore me


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[babalook]

i don't know if you've ever played against a patient oponent with cyrax but the bombs and nets are so easy to avoid it's rediculous and you should never trade with a net unless your launching projectile back to back. I'd love to see a cyrax try to out zone a zoneing character or for that matter id love to see him try to pressure a rushdown character. And that 50/50 will not exist anymore because the opponent can break the b1 with ease now. Cyrax is going to blow so hard after this patch that you'll never see a cyrax get to top 8 ever again and thats if someone ever actually tries to use him at a tournament again.

 

[Sultani]

cyrax can do a combo pop u up put out a net then wait for you to drop to then get a free 50/50. that's crazy, that's pretty much a safe jump and he has it, most of the safe jumps have been removed from the game.

I can't believe you guys are this upset, cyrax is a monster.

ok now I'm fully done you guys can all call me a scrub or hate me for liking the removal of the bomb trap whatever.
sorry now going back to work. later.



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You need to understand that removal of the bomb trap (or its existence), was never the problem. You would never get netted and then forced into a bomb trap because a cyrax player would never be able to cg 2, 1, 2, then bomb trap once the *bug* was fixed. Anything that happens subsequent to that is ridiculous to change because it will now be extremely hard to get someone into that position.

Now, there's a ton of reasons why it should stay in in light of this. First, there needs to be a risk associated with rushing cyrax. Without having to worry about getting grabbed and caught with a 2, 1, 2 before you react fast enough to break it means you eat 11% damage.. Ohh no! (sarcasm). Similarly, any Cyrax player won't ever even risk attempting a CG anymore because there's no reward for actually getting it in on someone. Cyrax's teleport sucks. Rush him down and then uppercut when he teleports.

If you are stupid enough to get caught with a command grab, not tech it (especially post patch), let the 2, 1, 2 hit you, let the next BP, BP hit you, Not break the BP, BP, not break the NJ, you deserve to eat the damage. All of these things would be possible without removing the bomb trap. I can't believe people don't understand this. It makes no sense to make a character specific move worhtless. Commang Grab... the first vestigial structure in the evolution (or de-evolution) of MK9.

 

[babalook]

i had a feeling NRS was going to start mindlessly patching stuff

 

[Steb]

I don't like frequent balance updates, but I'm just happy they didn't make his bombs/net as slow as human Cyrax, because that would remove his trap, combos, wake-up, zoning effectiveness, safety, and pretty much everything, lol.

It was like a grab that did a guaranteed 40% or force a breaker, which is a bit too strong. Now it's a grab that puts you in an advantage and in a 50/50 situation. That's still pretty good and a better grab than everyone else. It's definitely not the end of Cyrax, and I'll still be playing him.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

So, looks like the patch didn't come out this morning. Just went to training mode and it looks like the bomb trap is still in.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

this patches are to balance the game

cyrax still can compete without the bomb trab. . . he still have big damage
and nice traps, great distance game great normals and great block strings
how many characters in the cast have all of this tools? any cyrax player who
think cyrax will sux now is because he/she was basing his game on landing that
command grab and know nothing about cyrax normals and frame traps.
go and hit the practice room and stop wasting time complanning about this it is what it is
if tomorrow nrs say
johnny cage's flash kick should be unsafe on block from all ranges i would not do useless complenning and just adapt my game to the change
it is what it is

 

[Helter Skelter]

It makes me wonder if you guys would have even tried out the character if he never had the trap to begin with.

This game already suffers from lack of variety at top level and you guys are re-enforcing that by constantly claiming that he's gonna suck now.

I think this kinda thing was found too early and patched to late. I liked that he had the trap, but now Cyrax players seemingly can't stand on their feet with out it.

Sigh..

I don't like frequent balance updates, but I'm just happy they didn't make his bombs/net as slow as human Cyrax, because that would remove his trap, combos, wake-up, zoning effectiveness, safety, and pretty much everything, lol.

It was like a grab that did a guaranteed 40% or force a breaker, which is a bit too strong. Now it's a grab that puts you in an advantage and in a 50/50 situation. That's still pretty good and a better grab than everyone else. It's definitely not the end of Cyrax, and I'll still be playing him.

Yes.

this patches are to balance the game

cyrax still can compete without the bomb trab. . . he still have big damage
and nice traps, great distance game great normals and great block strings
how many characters in the cast have all of this tools? any cyrax player who
think cyrax will sux now is because he/she was basing his game on landing that
command grab and know nothing about cyrax normals and frame traps.
go and hit the practice room and stop wasting time complanning about this it is what it is
if tomorrow nrs say
johnny cage's flash kick should be unsafe on block from all ranges i would not do useless complenning and just adapt my game to the change
it is what it is

And, Yes

 

[Sultani]

I don't like frequent balance updates, but I'm just happy they didn't make his bombs/net as slow as human Cyrax, because that would remove his trap, combos, wake-up, zoning effectiveness, safety, and pretty much everything, lol.

It was like a grab that did a guaranteed 40% or force a breaker, which is a bit too strong. Now it's a grab that puts you in an advantage and in a 50/50 situation. That's still pretty good and a better grab than everyone else. It's definitely not the end of Cyrax, and I'll still be playing him.

No, the CG gets teched 100% of the time. Calling it a guaranteed 40% and comparing it to a regular throw is ridiculous.

I would like to add though, that with as absurd as it is to nerf anything further than fixing the techable frames of the grab, there are so many better things they could have done with that instead. If the concern is really the damage (which really isn't even that much), they could have just adjusted the the scaling reset timer to be greater than the stun duration post command grab. That way the bomb trap wouldn't also include a scaling reset and would do less damage. That would have been way better than what they did and would be way easier to implement than raw damage tweaks and testing. Again though, nothing after fixing the CG frames was needed at all.

But meh, this is the internet... And any logical posts and great points in refutation of these poor decisions will just be dismissed as "lol complaining."

Has anyone seen a good reason for further nerfs beyond fixing what the root of the problem was? I haven't.

Helter, no one denied that it need to be changed, but we realized what the problem was, and the solution that's apparently going in is clearly over the top.