Cheetah and Swamp Thing Character Breakdowns - March 15th

[trufenix]

there are some abilities that completely nullify a character's weaknesses with little to nothing lost. I don't want that in this game.

!?

 

[CrazyFingers]

!?

I already explained myself

 

[MagicMan357]

she is my shazam replacement, we lit

 

[trufenix]

Don't get me wrong - if Gear can make it so that characters can be practically, legally played with what would basically be customizable variations, THAT would be every kind of hype that hype is capable of being. IF it works.

I feel the core issue is that people are expecting NRS to police this in conjunction with the main game, but logistically, that would just make both experiences worse. If people really want gear moves in tournament it's going to take us making hard decisions about what is legal and what is bullshit, sticking to it, and getting the TOs on board before the first pool is even started. Cause that's how Smash has been handling their games for years.

Unfortunately, it sounds like we're just going to wind up with a lot of arguments that x character needs this or that to be complete and NRS needs to patch it in to the main gear set. Tragic, really.

 

[trufenix]

We need Aquaman, Flash, GL, And Brainic breakdowns

I would just settle for seeing what braniac looks like in a fight. Aquaman, Flash and GL are all legacy, we can see them in March.

 

[trufenix]

I already explained myself

Forgive me, I hadn't read the thread all the way cause I never saw the stream yesterday. But all I saw was some half cooked post about Atrocitus having a sweet blood pool. Is that really your case for tanking the entire concept?

 

[CrazyFingers]

Forgive me, I hadn't read the thread all the way cause I never saw the stream yesterday. But all I saw was some half cooked post about Atrocitus having a sweet blood pool. Is that really your case for tanking the entire concept?

Listen at the end of the day it doesn't matter what me, you, or anyone else here thinks. I personally, regardless of if you think it's a good idea, don't think NRS as the ability to balance the dozens of abilities they have planned. However again, doesn't matter because it is in the hands of the TO's and what their general consensus ends up being. It's clear however that NRS isn't planning on abilities being competitive, hence their absence from COMPETITIVE mode, and so they are gonna go nuts with creativity with little thought to balance, because they feel it's for the casual audience clearly.

 

[Shinnok Centaur]

Can someone explain this red and black stuff to me.

 

[Kooron Nation]

Damn Swamp Thing gonna have the best corner game with that trait active. I'm maining a teleport character so I can Tele the fk out of that shit, @CrazyFingers you won't get me with your corner set play!

 

[AcCooper20]

Can someone explain this red and black stuff to me.

Essentially it's the collective energy that flows through certain aspects of the world. The Red, is the collective energy of all animals. The Green, is plants and the black (also known as the rot) is death and decomposition. I'm sure someone can give much more thorough explanation.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Essentially it's the collective energy that flows through certain aspects of the world. The Red, is the collective energy of all animals. The Green, is plants and the black (also known as the rot) is death and decomposition. I'm sure someone can give much more thorough explanation.

You explained it pretty well tbh.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Damn Swamp Thing gonna have the best corner game with that trait active. I'm maining a teleport character so I can Tele the fk out of that shit, @CrazyFingers you won't get me with your corner set play!

Imma bait that Tele every time and you gonna get bopped.

 

[Shang_Tsung]

I feel the core issue is that people are expecting NRS to police this in conjunction with the main game, but logistically, that would just make both experiences worse. If people really want gear moves in tournament it's going to take us making hard decisions about what is legal and what is bullshit, sticking to it, and getting the TOs on board before the first pool is

Listen at the end of the day it doesn't matter what me, you, or anyone else here thinks. I personally, regardless of if you think it's a good idea, don't think NRS as the ability to balance the dozens of abilities they have planned. However again, doesn't matter because it is in the hands of the TO's and what their general consensus ends up being. It's clear however that NRS isn't planning on abilities being competitive, hence their absence from COMPETITIVE mode, and so they are gonna go nuts with creativity with little thought to balance, because they feel it's for the casual audience clearly.

Because they didn't show up in a beta that was not even a 1 /10 of the way done ? Sounds like you are only jumping to conclusions . I could not invite my friend to a game online does that mean it won't happen in the full game too ?

 

[CrazyFingers]

Because they didn't show up in a beta that was not even a 1 /10 of the way done ? Sounds like you are only jumping to conclusions . I could not invite my friend to a game online does that mean it won't happen in the full game too ?

Those are two completely different things. One of them didn't happen because that's how they designed it. They've said time and time again that ranked/competitive mode will have no gear, no extra abilities. The other is most likely due to time constraints. Pay attention to what the company making the game is saying eh?

 

[Azarashi Elder]

I feel the core issue is that people are expecting NRS to police this in conjunction with the main game, but logistically, that would just make both experiences worse. If people really want gear moves in tournament it's going to take us making hard decisions about what is legal and what is bullshit, sticking to it, and getting the TOs on board before the first pool is even started. .

I actually think you're on to something here, but maybe we're going to reach different conclusions. Ultimately, people should be able to play the way they want right? So who's to say what when you throw a local tourney with "gear legal" play? Nothing stopping you from doing that.

Of course, IF NRS did NOT intend gear abilities to be used in a competitive fashion, it would have to be an unofficial unsanctioned event which means no WB/NRS blessings & pot bonuses. But hey, you get to play how you want and that's its own reward, right?

Alternatively you could have online "gear on" tourneys, or "gear King of The Hill" to get more entrants and eliminate venue costs. The best and hypest thing to think about in that regard, is that those modes are probably built into the game anyway...

For reals.

 

[Shang_Tsung]

Fine , Then find where they said abilitys won't be in competitive mode so we can put this to rest ! I will say sorry and let you have satisfactory in knowing you are right ! I have heard many times gear will not be in ! But I feel you are basing this off an early build of a beta ! I would almost bet the interface won't even be the same ! "Click over for competitive " and so forth

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Tbh it's a waste as they decided to make them gear and customization related, I was expecting a really easy (and obvious) route which is having multiple traits to choose from at the start ala Mini variations/SF choosing a super/Ultra.
Very straight forward and adds a lot of variety, especially seeing how Reptile's variation's were basically that same concept so we know it works and can change a lot in a match.
Leave the extra specials and adjustments to gear and give each character 3 trait options that are usable in competitive mode.
Some characters already have implemented ideas that can be built on like Canary's and ST's second trait option which can be super neat to explore competitively but sadly they are gear abilities atm so they are never gonna be really looked at.
Maybe they'll do a patch down the line to make it happen but I doubt it.

Fine , Then find where they said abilitys won't be in competitive mode so we can put this to rest

it wasn't mentioned by them exactly as "no abilities in competitive mode" but in the beta when you turn on competitive mode it clearly says "stat boosts and abilites" being turned off.
They also say that gear effects won't be included in ranked and competitive mode multiple times.

Plus how would that really work for tournaments considering that you have to unlock them? Unless you have a way to quickly log in your account and load your loadouts and abilities on any console it'll be impossible. Make it generated codes like the Gem combinations in SFxTK lmao

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

People might play slightly different but that's not what I am talking about ( Not one Ryu throws more fireballs then this Ryu) ! Every character has tools it uses to win and when you change the tools it makes you rethink it can change the match up . Like seeing A swamp thing player struggle the first two rounds then switch to the load out with the teleport and ended up finding a way to counter ! How many times in MKX was there variation switching hype ! It just offers another layer to me and that's why mkx held my interest longer then a lot of fighting games you mention

The thing here is that it would be stupid hard to learn a match-up when your oponent can just change stuff like that. In MKX it wasn't AS HARD because the variations had specific moves to them but in Injustice 2 it would be almost like creating your own variation and there would be a lot of different special move combinations per character.

 

[Tony at Home]

Cheetah's animations are the greatest I've ever seen in any fighting game. My opinion- but I'm not exaggerating. I just don't think I've seen better.

 

[Cashual]

That's what we said about the variation system and that ended up being a huge flop. Just keep it simple, leave the gear/abilities for non comp.

I may not be understanding you, but you think the variation system was a flop?

I personally thought the variation system was a really cool wrinkle. Sure not every variation was great, but by game's end I think they've done an admirable job with balancing something like 100 "characters".

I wouldn't be crushed to see variations dropped next MK game, but I did enjoy it.

I hope there is some way to reasonably enable abilities in a competitive setting, it's just a shame to have all these move sets designed and implemented and only ever see them in scrubby online warrior play.

Hopefully they created the additional abilities with balance in mind, which is supported by different abilities requiring two slots.

Allowing an extra ten seconds to allow players to select their loadout would be fine imo. But including these moves is totally contingent upon their balance.

 

[Endding]

The gear/no gear call is difficult, seems like a huge part of the game would go to waste if not aloud. However I'm down for either option.

Just a thought, If Superman has a weakness he uses an ability to nullify that doesn't that make Superman even better than he was already? Wouldn't the rich just get richer and the poor get poorer so to say? I just hope the 'lower' tier characters abilities can compete with the higher is all I'm trying to get at.

 

[Shang_Tsung]

What about the variation system was a flop ? That just sounds like a bias opinion to me .

 

[Azarashi Elder]

You know , the biggest complaint about gear not being included in competitive play, is the feeling that the extra moves are going to "waste". It's a "waste" to have a move designated casual play, apparently. Well that's a 100& subjective opinion I don't agree with.

Look, when you create something, part of that process is brainstorming and coming up with a ton of ideas that are eventually cut out. Leaving those ideas on the editing room floor is part of the process of making a better character. What you leave out is just as important as what you put in.

With this game, they've taken those discarded moves and implemented them into the game in a fun, casual setting, when normally, you would have NEVER known they existed at all! But somehow, if they're not used the way you want them to be used, it's a"waste".

Newsflash, it's only a waste if you don't care about casual mode. Probably 95% of buyers will only play casual 2 v 2 & couldn't care less about ranked. So how is that a. "waste" of the moves when the great majority of buyers get to have fun with those moves? That doesn't make sense to me!

Part of the joy of competitive play is learning matchups and figuring out character's strengths and weaknesses. That learning process is hindered and dragged out if people are using additional moves that change the matchup. Variations happened once! One friggin time in fgc history and now you want them in every NRS fighting game? That's fine, but that's an opinion that would make the casual mode obsolete and the competitive mode a headache to learn and play. No thanks.

 

[Skullcalibur]

You know , the biggest complaint about gear not being included in competitive play, is the feeling that the extra moves are going to "waste". It's a "waste" to have a move designated casual play, apparently. Well that's a 100& subjective opinion I don't agree with.

Look, when you create something, part of that process is brainstorming and coming up with a ton of ideas that are eventually cut out. Leaving those ideas on the editing room floor is part of the process of making a better character. What you leave out is just as important as what you put in.

With this game, they've taken those discarded moves and implemented them into the game in a fun, casual setting, when normally, you would have NEVER known they existed at all! But somehow, if they're not used the way you want them to be used, it's a"waste".

Newsflash, it's only a waste if you don't care about casual mode. Probably 95% of buyers will only play casual 2 v 2 & couldn't care less about ranked. So how is that a. "waste" of the moves when the great majority of buyers get to have fun with those moves? That doesn't make sense to me!

Part of the joy of competitive play is learning matchups and figuring out character's strengths and weaknesses. That learning process is hindered and dragged out if people are using additional moves that change the matchup. Variations happened once! One friggin time in fgc history and now you want them in every NRS fighting game? That's fine, but that's an opinion that would make the casual mode obsolete and the competitive mode a headache to learn and play. No thanks.

To add, this feeling of waste or missing out on something is why things like limited editions and dlcs sell so well

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

. Variations happened once! One friggin time in fgc history and now you want them in every NRS fighting game? That's fine, but that's an opinion that would make the casual mode obsolete and the competitive mode a headache to learn and play. No thanks.

??? What? You really think MKX is the very first game to have a variation style system?
Granted it's the first one to fully expand on it to be for every character but there are hella games that did the same concept where you can choose a different version of the same character.
KoF 98 UM has a second "variation" for most of the cast, and it also has 3 different engine systems that you can pick which changed your meter, your dodge/roll mechanic and even your choice of run of a dash.
SF Alpha 3 also has 3 isms which greatly changes moves and the whole playstyle. CvS2 as well with 6 Grooves that can change up the engine your team works with.
There's also SFIII and SF4's choosing a super or ultra which heavily changes some matchups simply coz of 1 tool.

There's also more casual options like DBZ Budokai games and Naruto UN/UNS series where you can choose your specials, power-ups/transformations and supers.

Having variations or customizable variations aren't a new concept by any means, the main issue injustice 2 has is that the new abilities needs to be unlocked and they're gear related. If they wanted them to be usable competitively it's as simple as having a mini menu of abilities show up on character select where you can pick whatever abilities you want for the 2 slots.