Move List - Ermac changes Ermac needs with kp2

[Geoffmeister]

i..... i think i love you !!!!! that f21 bait was amazing !!!

^^ It's nice when it works.. You can EX vanish on raw Hell Sparks as well

vanilla disappear should be 15 frames. and in case if i spend one bar it better wield some immediate results.

I tested (EX) Disappear on a read, during a jump-in, when KL anti-airs with Cyclone (Disappear absorbs the hit, making it count as on-block), 15 frames recovery could land you a punish with about 2 frames accuracy, but right now it's impossible.. this would work on anything from -23 so ehh.. maybe Disappear does need faster recovery for it be actually useful.

 

[insignis]

you can go for a double d3 against a few members of the roster, if you know they'll follow up with a high.. it's really not an issue offline.

The changes on Mileena were based on her character as a whole, her recovery seems faster than 15 frames but she needed that.. Ermac having sortof the same thing is too much.. Look at it from this perspective, vanish/disappear can whiff punish a few specials with a 2-3 frame gap,
video for reference

if the recovery decreases these things become all the more easier, while 5 frames is acceptable, 12 frame reduction on the whiff recovery is too much..
I think people should still be able to punish a recovering vanish if they're patient.

b32 special cancellable won't even make Ermac broken, (it's the way MKX works now, looking at you Demolition Sonya), that being said..I don't want that, it's S tier confirmed. I want Ermac to stay balanced but also able to compete, let's not pull a shujinkydink, guys pls.

Don't forget you can be grabbed from vanish. There is no need to wait for opponent.

 

[Metzos]

Don't forget you can be grabbed from vanish. There is no need to wait for opponent.

This. Not many people know this. This goes for both, Vanish and Disapear. Again another thing that makes no sense. But, then again, NRS. In order for Ermac to be able to compete against the top tier characters, he needs some serious adjustments, or those characters need a serious nerf in the ass.

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

you can go for a double d3 against a few members of the roster, if you know they'll follow up with a high.. it's really not an issue offline.

The changes on Mileena were based on her character as a whole, her recovery seems faster than 15 frames but she needed that.. Ermac having sortof the same thing is too much.. Look at it from this perspective, vanish/disappear can whiff punish a few specials with a 2-3 frame gap,
video for reference

if the recovery decreases these things become all the more easier, while 5 frames is acceptable, 12 frame reduction on the whiff recovery is too much..
I think people should still be able to punish a recovering vanish if they're patient.

b32 special cancellable won't even make Ermac broken, (it's the way MKX works now, looking at you Demolition Sonya), that being said..I don't want that, it's S tier confirmed. I want Ermac to stay balanced but also able to compete, let's not pull a shujinkydink, guys pls.

bottom line, what are you suggestions on
recovery and startup of disappear and vanish?

I dont think you know how frame data works....

then what numbers do you suggest? and btw, no need to be rude.

 

[Icy Black Deep]

Look at it from this perspective, vanish/disappear can whiff punish a few specials with a 2-3 frame gap, video for reference

That's a very poor description of the video. The video shows that where there would be a gap in your string or otherwise a spot you could be punished you can cancel into disappear instead to try to bait out a reversal. And in true "unsafe god" fashion you're probably boned if they just keep blocking.

Disappear is generally too slow a startup to use on reaction and too long a recovery to use to punish stuff in any realistic situation. Either make it into a real parry (~7 frame startup) or it's another move we can just take out of the game. I can pretty much guarantee that no Ermac has ever done Disappear on the ground on purpose, and Disappear in the air is pretty gimmicky.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

bottom line, what are you suggestions on
recovery and startup of disappear and vanish?

then what numbers do you suggest? and btw, no need to be rude.

ignore me im a dumbass i read your comment wrong, i thought you were saying that because it had however many recovery frames that it made the move -3, sorry about that, i literally just woke up when i typed that comment

 

[Geoffmeister]

That's a very poor description of the video. The video shows that where there would be a gap in your string or otherwise a spot you could be punished you can cancel into disappear instead to try to bait out a reversal. And in true "unsafe god" fashion you're probably boned if they just keep blocking.

Disappear is generally too slow a startup to use on reaction and too long a recovery to use to punish stuff in any realistic situation. Either make it into a real parry (~7 frame startup) or it's another move we can just take out of the game. I can pretty much guarantee that no Ermac has ever done Disappear on the ground on purpose, and Disappear in the air is pretty gimmicky.

I might've explained wrong. When Ermac uses f21-vanish (a string with a gap in it, likely to bait armor) he has about a 1-3 frame opportunity to deliver a whiff punish from Cyclone, this is just one example but there are some uses for it, any buffs can oversimplify the tech possibly making it gamebreaking, that's all I wanted to show. I clarified in the next post that EX Disappear does need improvement because it absorbs a hit (which is an addition) but changes frames to on-block, which is basically just stalling inevitable death (only actual use I've found so far is consistent Hell Spark punishes on a read, making it still too risky to spend a bar on).

bottom line, what are you suggestions on
recovery and startup of disappear and vanish?

Disappear:
Startup: 17 (unchanged)
Recovery: 18 (down from 22)

EX Disappear (Vanish)
Startup: 17 (unchanged, doesn't really matter, he's invincible first frame)
Recovery: 13 (down from 22)

- Disappear recovers 4 frames faster
- EX Disappear recover 9 frames faster, will punish from -23 (on block)
- I'm pretty sure the frame data is incorrectly listed at 47 recovery for air vanish/disappear, I think recovery is even faster for Air variants, but Air EX Disappear still absorbs a hit, so it should be faster, probably not by 9 frames, I'd say 5 but I'm not a tester
- Can still be grabbed out of it on the ground, that's fine

Not the highest priority of buffs but it allows some cool plays, making very few MUs more manageable

 

[Creature Feature]

just make soul burst/blast safe or at least unpunishable and ill be happy

This. Ermac can be unsafe in his strings but needs better trip guards and safer specials.

I feel the hit box to Mystic's soul push should be extended so that he controls more space. Either that or make it safer. Also make his soul lift safer and a bit quicker on startup.

I would like to see a faster startup on disappear in Master of Souls as it is not useless and make back 2 unblockable when fully charged . I would like to be able to meter burn telestomp to get a pop-up and also have an air throw with in Spectral that also can be meter burned to get a pop-up.