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Cetrion General Discussion Thread

edits:
Clarified the Boulder Bash section to highlight that the default (non-cancellable, non-delayable) rock throws are not variation specific.
Added answers to some follow-up questions.


db1 (2 directions), Natural Barrier, mid
12s 25a 12r +15 -15
Krushing Blow: projectile destroyed while summoning wall
does NOT hit Jade during Dodging Shadows

df1 (3 directions on ground and 3 in air), Hell's Wrath (what you call "Fire Beam"), mid
24 6 33 +18 -12
does NOT hit Jade during Dodging Shadows

db4, Tendril Pull (Vine Grab), mid
28 11 41 +11 (kd) -35
Krushing Blow: opponent blocks late
DOES hit during Dodging Shadows

db2, Bouncing Boulder (diagonally down), mid
48 +38 +3
does NOT hit Jade during Dodging Shadows

bf2, Boulder Bash (horizontal), unblockable (in air)
46 +65 (kd)
Krushing Blow: projectile hits by itself
does NOT hit Jade during Dodging Shadows in the air

There is some discrepancy with the frame data and the numbers displayed by the built-in frame data tool but this should give a decent first impression.
Here are the block advantages of all her default strings: -2 -8 -12 -4 -11 -1 -5 -9 -10 -9 -5. Not sure how much that tells you, considering that even the character specific tutorial modes are not consistent in what is considered "safe" or not but there is not a single 0 or better string in there, so ...

other Krushing Blows:
d2, counter/punish high attack
toward throw, opponent failed throw escape during previous throw
213 (h,m,o +35 -9), counter/punish

Tournament variation 1 ("Force of Nature"):
Shattering Boulder replaces Natural Barrier and summons a rock at head level instead. Launches on hit. Amplify to shatter boulder for a wider horizontal hitbox.
Delayed Boulder Bash allows the default rock throws (horizontally above head level and diagonally down) to be delayed, cancelled and switched horizontally/diagonally after inputting one or the other (they have different inputs, bf2/db2). Cannot be amplified.

Tournament variation 2 ("Spring Cleaning"):
The teleport ("H2 P0rt"), du (behind), dub (in front), dud (in place), duf (far) can be done in air, cannot be amplified.

I will update the original tournament variation post with a link to this comment:
https://testyourmight.com/threads/spoiler-thread-people-officially-have-the-game-already-no-story-spoilers.69013/page-45#post-2481068
There is an air tele?!? That’s awesome! I will probably try the second variation. Is there any information about the standard ground boulder’s frame data?!
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
So if the leak variations hold true (at this point it seems legit) we will have-

Variation A- Cyclone and Wind Shield
Variation B- Boulder Toss Delay and Water Geyser.

I would be very, very, very happy with this outcome.
Indeed, at first I read something else with the first variation didn't even see any wind moves listed just boulder, delay, rock shield push and something else I forget atm. But that's find for me.
 
Here's Cetrion's Frame Data written out for everyone!!

Enjoy!! :D

It looks like Boulders are + on block. It still looks like her most consistent tool is her Hell's Wrath though.

Damn!! So Geyser isn’t a low? I was already dreaming of the mix off her overhead teleporting string(
 

bigmiracle

Praise Sheeva
Indeed, at first I read something else with the first variation didn't even see any wind moves listed just boulder, delay, rock shield push and something else I forget atm. But that's find for me.
Same here. She has zero mixup it seems, asides from certain strings.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
Same here. She has zero mixup it seems, asides from certain strings.
Yeah, I mean they said she's not a combo or mix up heavy character but Stever was doing those 2 strings that ended I believe one in an overhead, the other in a low. I think her vines are going to be crucial when mixed up with her other stuff.
 
Yeah, I mean they said she's not a combo or mix up heavy character but Stever was doing those 2 strings that ended I believe one in an overhead, the other in a low. I think her vines are going to be crucial when mixed up with her other stuff.
The gameplay where Steve was mixing the string which ends with an overhead with the vines was from an older build where vines were low.
Vines are mid now. I hoped that the Geyser move would be a low, but according to the frame data list posted here by @Circus it is a mid as well
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
The gameplay where Steve was mixing the string which ends with an overhead with the vines was from an older build where vines were low.
Vines are mid now. I hoped that the Geyser move would be a low, but according to the frame data list posted here by @Circus it is a mid as well
Ah ok, I'm been avoiding certain things cause of accidental story spoilers in gameplay topics. Didn't know that, interesting. Well that's fine I guess, I mean I know at least the vines also grab Jade in her projectile invincibility flash and since Cetrion is a primarily keep away and zoning character I can see why they did that.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Excellent!! Thanks @Circus for this, just what we need for visuals.

@ShepherdOfFire when you get a moment can you test a couple of remaining things for us for Cetrion? Think we'll be set after.

-Does Water Geyser hit Jade during Glow? (we only know of Vine Grab hitting, but not sure if Water Geyser does.)
-If you jump and do Air Fire Beam in the air relatively close, can you Shadow Kick/Nomad Dash/teleport punish it?
-If you do Ground Fire Beam close can you punish it with a string or those above?
-At distance, can you punish Water Geyser or Far Fire Beam with a teleport? Scorpions for example? Or with a Jax Ground n Pound. Or a Skarlet Tele+String punish?
-Does Boulder Shatter have a blockable hitbox, or can you walk right past it? Does it launch in the corner or into a Vine Grab? Is it mostly like a MMH Orb, or how would you describe it best.

Much thanks, much much thanks.
 

ShepherdOfFire

Ask me about my Nemesis agenda
Excellent!! Thanks @Circus for this, just what we need for visuals.

@ShepherdOfFire when you get a moment can you test a couple of remaining things for us for Cetrion? Think we'll be set after.

-Does Water Geyser hit Jade during Glow? (we only know of Vine Grab hitting, but not sure if Water Geyser does.)
-If you jump and do Air Fire Beam in the air relatively close, can you Shadow Kick/Nomad Dash/teleport punish it?
-If you do Ground Fire Beam close can you punish it with a string or those above?
-At distance, can you punish Water Geyser or Far Fire Beam with a teleport? Scorpions for example? Or with a Jax Ground n Pound. Or a Skarlet Tele+String punish?
-Does Boulder Shatter have a blockable hitbox, or can you walk right past it? Does it launch in the corner or into a Vine Grab? Is it mostly like a MMH Orb, or how would you describe it best.

Much thanks, much much thanks.
I'll try it later, yes :)
 
Excellent!! Thanks @Circus for this, just what we need for visuals.

@ShepherdOfFire when you get a moment can you test a couple of remaining things for us for Cetrion? Think we'll be set after.

-Does Water Geyser hit Jade during Glow? (we only know of Vine Grab hitting, but not sure if Water Geyser does.)
-If you jump and do Air Fire Beam in the air relatively close, can you Shadow Kick/Nomad Dash/teleport punish it?
-If you do Ground Fire Beam close can you punish it with a string or those above?
-At distance, can you punish Water Geyser or Far Fire Beam with a teleport? Scorpions for example? Or with a Jax Ground n Pound. Or a Skarlet Tele+String punish?
-Does Boulder Shatter have a blockable hitbox, or can you walk right past it? Does it launch in the corner or into a Vine Grab? Is it mostly like a MMH Orb, or how would you describe it best.

Much thanks, much much thanks.
Unfortunately Water Geysir doesn’t hit Jade during Glow.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Unfortunately Water Geysir doesn’t hit Jade during Glow.
Dammitttttt lol only the Vine Grab is a bit of a bummer. MU looks annoying on paper.

is tendri pull the mid tracking move? its 28 start up frames and -35 on block? holy shit the scrubs really won this game.
Yea it's the tracking Vine Grab move. Those frames lol, makes it useful as a combo extender or hit on a read, but I'm not throwing it out just to get full combo punished by the plethora of teleports.
 

Obly

Noob
Dammitttttt lol only the Vine Grab is a bit of a bummer. MU looks annoying on paper.
What about her ground pound (Earthquake, I think)? Does that hit Jade during glow? @ck_montana @ShepherdOfFire ? (And do you have the frame data for that move? :D)

Yea it's the tracking Vine Grab move. Those frames lol, makes it useful as a combo extender or hit on a read, but I'm not throwing it out just to get full combo punished by the plethora of teleports.
Yeah, it'll be suicide to just throw it out in the neutral. Not fast enough to trade with most projectiles either, unless they're really slow. I bet it might be good for punishing some jump-ins though, if you catch them as they come down. Kabal's and Jade's downward air projectiles had a lot of recovery IIRC, so maybe even possible to catch one of them after a block.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Yeah, it'll be suicide to just throw it out in the neutral. Not fast enough to trade with most projectiles either, unless they're really slow. I bet it might be good for punishing some jump-ins though, if you catch them as they come down. Kabal's and Jade's downward air projectiles had a lot of recovery IIRC, so maybe even possible to catch one of them after a block.
That was one of the questions I was wondering too, how good of a jump punish it was. Like if at range if someone blocks say a Ground Pound or Geyser and jumps forward, can I punish them with Vine Grab on the way down. If not then it might end up a pathetic move lol. Now that mention there are a good amount of air projectiles in this game so at worst it would end up a good punish for that.

Gotta admit though if the frames were going to be terrible it didn't need to be regressed to a mid. It's not that scary.
 
does anyone have an idea what her damage output is
I think it is something around...


Ass.
Pretty sure it’s ass without a FB or a u2 launch. Maybe geyser can help extend combos combined with the Vines, but that will be both of your offensive bars.
 
Can you end that combo with F32 and throw a boulder before they can do anything but block?
This boulder attacks are really slow on startup (46 and 48) By now I dont see any combos with these.

Btw - the near air beam isn‘t punishable by nomad dash on hit, but easy pubishable with strings on block.
 

bigmiracle

Praise Sheeva
Damn her frame data looks so bad. Is it even possible to pressure anyone with her zoning? Everything has huge startup, and is unsafe af. Jade glow eating everything looks like a match made in hell.
 

Obly

Noob
I think it is something around...


Ass.
Pretty sure it’s ass without a FB or a u2 launch. Maybe geyser can help extend combos combined with the Vines, but that will be both of your offensive bars.
I don't think this is true. Based on frame data I grabbed at the beta (might be different now, I guess), her strings do comparable damage as others and all of her projectiles do more damage than other characters' standard projectiles.

No, she's clearly not designed to be a combo queen. She's meant to bleed her opponent out, bit by bit, from a distance, which I think she does have the tools to do.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
This boulder attacks are really slow on startup (46 and 48) By now I dont see any combos with these.

Btw - the near air beam isn‘t punishable by nomad dash on hit, but easy pubishable with strings on block.
Ah yeah, I was thinking along the lines of ending the combo with F32 into boulder, if it was a safe way to force them into blocking the boulder when they get up. Or if they can jump over or tele. If is a way to make them stay on the defensive.

Damn, so it's EX Beam or nothing close. Damn.

Damn.
 

ShepherdOfFire

Ask me about my Nemesis agenda
-Does Water Geyser hit Jade during Glow? (we only know of Vine Grab hitting, but not sure if Water Geyser does.)
-If you jump and do Air Fire Beam in the air relatively close, can you Shadow Kick/Nomad Dash/teleport punish it?
-If you do Ground Fire Beam close can you punish it with a string or those above?
-At distance, can you punish Water Geyser or Far Fire Beam with a teleport? Scorpions for example? Or with a Jax Ground n Pound. Or a Skarlet Tele+String punish?
-Does Boulder Shatter have a blockable hitbox, or can you walk right past it? Does it launch in the corner or into a Vine Grab? Is it mostly like a MMH Orb, or how would you describe it best.

Much thanks, much much thanks.
  • Jade's glow is immune to geyser
  • Jade's Nitro Kick can punish a blocked df1 with a shadow kick at short range. Kabal's Nomad Dash can't. However Kabal can punish with a string like 11xxND
  • Ground Fire beam ? Is this a ability move ? I can't find it in ranked variations
  • You can't punish Geyser with Scorpion's teleport, Skarlet's Bloodport or Jax's ground pound (if you jump right after the recovery, you can't be hit by a ground pound reversal)
  • I can't really remember MMH's orb, I didn't played IGAU that much. I didn't find Boulder Shatter, Is it also an ability move ?
I hope it helped :)
Ask me if you have any questions