Cetrion General Discussion Thread

[Eldagrin]

Yep, sounds about right. I've been victim of it in long sets with a couple of my usual training buds. That's why it's mind blowing why we aren't seeing it blown up more at the "highest level", but I think that's because they're playing so many MUs they aren't fully learning it yet. Whereas I have a small group that we literally play every day with the exact same characters so now they are FLB'ing about 25% of the times for full combo. In just two weeks.

I'm a strong believer (y'all probably tired of hearing me say it but I'm literally experiencing it lol) that over time the Wall will be rendered very weak if it stays in it's current form. I'm trying to consciously use it less and less in advance preparation for MU exp to catch up to the inefficiency. That and sometimes I just can't/won't risk being full combo'd. Started testing out the other variation since Orb Rock replaces Wall, but not sold on losing the Teleport AND Geyser.

Basically, S1 at 7F is a fairly easy full combo punish through the AMP gap, but FLB on the AMP Wall is one of the easier FLBs in the game due to the delay in AMP. That's why the true buff I want is for it to be one full move, to avoid all of this and keep it's usage in tact. If not, by CEO-EVO time it'll be dead completely. "For now" however, it will fraudulently work.

I still think without the wall Cetrion will be good, and using Wall when they’re approaching you is fine still, but god I do wish it wasn’t so fake up close. I’ve just completely avoided using it in d1 wars except as a little “surprise” to make people respect me. I would honestly like them to fix wall or just make f23 not -10 and she’d be very solid up close because f2 by itself is actually a pretty good button, it’s the 3 that’s not so amazing.

 

[SaltShaker]

I still think without the wall Cetrion will be good, and using Wall when they’re approaching you is fine still, but god I do wish it wasn’t so fake up close. I’ve just completely avoided using it in d1 wars except as a little “surprise” to make people respect me. I would honestly like them to fix wall or just make f23 not -10 and she’d be very solid up close because f2 by itself is actually a pretty good button, it’s the 3 that’s not so amazing.

Yup. Agree 100%. It's solid when you use the far version in the neutral because they have to respect it, and the FLB would likely be too fast a reaction, and ultimately pointless for most characters. It also works good as a "once in a while" poke check against opponents who know the MU. Once they start fearing the return poke you can dictate tempo a bit better.

Where the true fraudulent nature comes in is when I watch players doing like "D1 -- F23 AMP Wall". Hell Dragon and Sonic were both doing that when they used her in numerous matches. It hurts every time I see it because you get people who don't know any better like "wow that up close pressure, she's so safe, S tier" lol. Luckily we have a character that doesn't really need much to strive long term, but definitely the Wall or the F23 needs a look or up close will get uglier in the future.

 

[Eldagrin]

Also, what does everyone feel are her best anti-airs? Her d2 has a pretty solid upwards hitbox but 0 horizontal hitbox. I’m mostly using s1 and d4 since s1 is fast and has a good hitbox and no hurt box and d4 lowers her hurtbox a lot and has a surprisingly nice hitbox. A2A j2 is also a really good challenge since it’s 6f.

 

[Eldagrin]

Yup. Agree 100%. It's solid when you use the far version in the neutral because they have to respect it, and the FLB would likely be too fast a reaction, and ultimately pointless for most characters. It also works good as a "once in a while" poke check against opponents who know the MU. Once they start fearing the return poke you can dictate tempo a bit better.

Where the true fraudulent nature comes in is when I watch players doing like "D1 -- F23 AMP Wall". Hell Dragon and Sonic were both doing that when they used her in numerous matches. It hurts every time I see it because you get people who don't know any better like "wow that up close pressure, she's so safe, S tier" lol. Luckily we have a character that doesn't really need much to strive long term, but definitely the Wall or the F23 needs a look or up close will get uglier in the future.

Yeah, it is kind of ugly, at least Dragon doesn’t rely on it that much, Sonic uses it constantly though. I agree that she doesn’t need much at all to be good in the long term once people learn MUs. Her kit almost reminds me of Raven from IGAU. Good zoning that isn’t totally brainless, a teleport that isn’t useless, solid buttons up close, pretty nice damage for a zoner. At least Cetrion doesn’t have to deal with Doomsday and IGAU Bane, though.

 

[SaltShaker]

Also, what does everyone feel are her best anti-airs? Her d2 has a pretty solid upwards hitbox but 0 horizontal hitbox. I’m mostly using s1 and d4 since s1 is fast and has a good hitbox and no hurt box and d4 lowers her hurtbox a lot and has a surprisingly nice hitbox. A2A j2 is also a really good challenge since it’s 6f.

S1 feels pretty reliable, I've found it pretty consistent unless I react too late. For farther and late jumps F1 seems to work pretty good too. All I have used, I'll have to try out D4 some if it's that good. Her Air-toAir- though is some of the best imo. Seems to have really good priority.

 

[haketh]

S1 feels pretty reliable, I've found it pretty consistent unless I react too late. For farther and late jumps F1 seems to work pretty good too. All I have used, I'll have to try out D4 some if it's that good. Her Air-toAir- though is some of the best imo. Seems to have really good priority.

2 is also pretty solid as a AA, Spooky showed me that at NWM

 

[SaltShaker]

2 is also pretty solid as a AA, Spooky showed me that at NWM

Nice, admit I legit never even thought of trying it since I've crutched off of S1. I'll look into it today for sure!

 

[Kisori]

 

[Eldagrin]

So, I was doing some more labbing today trying to test out stuff and I decided to figure out if I can make Cetrion's geyser not randomly whiff the second hit on Geras and Kotal in combos. What I found was that I could 100% consistently get the second hit to work on him off the 213 KB (most important place for it to work, honestly). You have to instant j2 him after the pop up, which makes him fall very close to the ground before f13 hits him. As long as Geras is close to the ground, the second hit of geyser will pick him up. So when doing combos try to do your jump ins early enough that Kotal/Geras stay very close to the ground. If they're too high up, meaning you did the jump ins too deep, it will drop because the second hit whiffs.

Edit: Adding a video to show what I mean, the last combo is doing a deeper j2 rather than an instant for the whiff.

Edit 2: After more testing for normal BnBs, the j2 j1 combo you have to have somewhat specific timing to prevent geyser whiffing, however, the BnB with double j2 does not have this problem, so I would recommend getting down the double j2 instead of j2 j1 vs Geras and Kotal since it always keeps him low enough for Geyser to connect properly.

Edit 3 because I hate multiple posts:

The double j2 is consistent on Kotal as well as Geras and below is a gif of j2 j1 whiffing because of height.

 

[fireborg]

best counterpick for cetrion?

 

[Eldagrin]

best counterpick for cetrion?

This is coming from my experience on the Sonya side, not Cetrion, but Sonya feels very strong against Cetrion, her rings just control Cetrion’s ability to do anything really hard. Sonya also destroys Cetrion up close because of the mix and doing nearly double her damage.

 

[SaltShaker]

best counterpick for cetrion?

@Eldagrin is pretty dead on. Sonya, Geras, and Sub are the obvious answers. Not just because they're top tier, but because what they do is a direct hard counter to her, and they do it so strongly.

Other than those 3, I dunno if anything else feels bad enough to be considered "bad". There are some annoying MUs, but those three are the only ones I consider uphill. Kano and Kabal can give me a bit of trouble, but that might be me unfamiliar with the MUs than others.

 

[fredchuckdave]

Dragon Vs Sonic Fox (Erron Black)

 

[fireborg]

@Eldagrin is pretty dead on. Sonya, Geras, and Sub are the obvious answers. Not just because they're top tier, but because what they do is a direct hard counter to her, and they do it so strongly.

Other than those 3, I dunno if anything else feels bad enough to be considered "bad". There are some annoying MUs, but those three are the only ones I consider uphill. Kano and Kabal can give me a bit of trouble, but that might be me unfamiliar with the MUs than others.

with geras tho? his projectile can KB, but is slow, with inputs in 4 different ranges ( two of them harder to input specially under pressure ). the projectile also haves significant recovery. his jump and walk speed are not the best.

 

[Eldagrin]

@Eldagrin is pretty dead on. Sonya, Geras, and Sub are the obvious answers. Not just because they're top tier, but because what they do is a direct hard counter to her, and they do it so strongly.

Other than those 3, I dunno if anything else feels bad enough to be considered "bad". There are some annoying MUs, but those three are the only ones I consider uphill. Kano and Kabal can give me a bit of trouble, but that might be me unfamiliar with the MUs than others.

Geras is really annoying, but I think we take for granted the fact that Cetrion is one of the only characters in the entire game that he is hesitant to constantly throw out low sand because she can punish him for 20% everytime we block it.

 

[Eldagrin]

with geras tho? his projectile can KB, but is slow, with inputs in 4 different ranges ( two of them harder to input specially under pressure ). the projectile also haves significant recovery. his jump and walk speed are not the best.

Geras low sand is actually quite fast, it’s a 17f move and punishes a blocked Geyser and non MB ground df1 (which is why you should always do ia beam with cetrion), he should also be able to reaction low sand a boulder since it’s 48f of start up. He can’t just throw it out constantly against her like he can other characters, but it basically limits her to using ia beam and only using Geyser as a punish or to see if they know it jails after a beam on hit.

 

[legion666]

So, I was doing some more labbing today trying to test out stuff and I decided to figure out if I can make Cetrion's geyser not randomly whiff the second hit on Geras and Kotal in combos. What I found was that I could 100% consistently get the second hit to work on him off the 213 KB (most important place for it to work, honestly). You have to instant j2 him after the pop up, which makes him fall very close to the ground before f13 hits him. As long as Geras is close to the ground, the second hit of geyser will pick him up. So when doing combos try to do your jump ins early enough that Kotal/Geras stay very close to the ground. If they're too high up, meaning you did the jump ins too deep, it will drop because the second hit whiffs.

Edit: Adding a video to show what I mean, the last combo is doing a deeper j2 rather than an instant for the whiff.

Edit 2: After more testing for normal BnBs, the j2 j1 combo you have to have somewhat specific timing to prevent geyser whiffing, however, the BnB with double j2 does not have this problem, so I would recommend getting down the double j2 instead of j2 j1 vs Geras and Kotal since it always keeps him low enough for Geyser to connect properly.

Edit 3 because I hate multiple posts:

The double j2 is consistent on Kotal as well as Geras and below is a gif of j2 j1 whiffing because of height.

Good to know, since I only use double j2 combos on everyone, they do 267 damage over 254 with j1,j2 and over 257 with jump in kick.

 

[legion666]

By the way, have you guys tried using F2xxdf1b (Amp), it jails on block, has a mind game of Amplified or not, and pushes back a lot on Amp. And on hit you are +15 (+16 on amp). And both variations can use it.

 

[Eldagrin]

By the way, have you guys tried using F2xxdf1b (Amp), it jails on block, has a mind game of Amplified or not, and pushes back a lot on Amp. And on hit you are +15 (+16 on amp). And both variations can use it.

I can’t get it to jail, but you can’t poke Cetrion out of it, even with any Fatal blow I tested, good find, this can definitely be useful depending on the MU.

I also can’t get flawless block to work in between f2 and df1b, so it looks like it’s also a guaranteed 4% chip.

Edit: I just tested it out of curiosity and if you f2 close enough to Jacqui, she can reversal punish your df1b AMP with dash punch KB. It is risky for her though because if it’s not close enough she eats a d2 KB, she should be able to gauge if it’s close enough, though.

 

[exflyingbooty]

best counterpick for cetrion?

Do you have an attack with a teleport? Congratulations, you counterpick cetrion

 

[Eldagrin]

Do you have an attack with a teleport? Congratulations, you counterpick cetrion

I feel like having an offensive teleport doesn’t automatically counter Cetrion, it makes her have to be much more reserved with her zoning, but she doesn’t lose access to her good mid range buttons. I feel like Scorpion gives her the hardest time out of anyone with a tele, but Noob’s isn’t really an issue.

She struggles more with opponents who have a fast projectile that has low recovery or a giant hitbox that she can’t max height air df1 over imo. Even then she doesn’t feel like she gets “hard countered” in this game outside of the crazy top 3-4 characters.

 

[exflyingbooty]

She struggles more with opponents who have a fast projectile that has low recovery or a giant hitbox that she can’t max height air df1 over imo. Even then she doesn’t feel like she gets “hard countered” in this game outside of the crazy top 3-4 characters.

Not really, if your opponent is being an asshole with those types of projectiles (they're usually highs) tendrils/earthquake low profile them and if you use ex tendrils you get a small combo with force of nature and a full combo with spring cleaning

 

[RoninLoganX]

What's a good build for Cetrion, and how should I set her AI stats?

 

[legion666]

@Eldagrin is pretty dead on. Sonya, Geras, and Sub are the obvious answers. Not just because they're top tier, but because what they do is a direct hard counter to her, and they do it so strongly.

Other than those 3, I dunno if anything else feels bad enough to be considered "bad". There are some annoying MUs, but those three are the only ones I consider uphill. Kano and Kabal can give me a bit of trouble, but that might be me unfamiliar with the MUs than others.

Was watching your footage against Theo’s Sub, and noticed an interesting trade, when you did Geyser and he did an ice ball, you were frozen but he was stuck in a bubble METERLESSLY) of course you can’t get out of the freeze in time to combo Sub. But I wonder if it can have it’s use against other projectiles like Sonya’s rings. Can’t test it today. Maybe I will find time in the morning)

 

[HapHaxion]

So since counterpicks to Cetrion were discussed, who do y'all specifically think Cetrion is a counterpick for, or just does well against? (Feel free to mention even MUs if you think they can be back-and-forth or dependent)