Captain Cold General Discussion Thread

[Johnny Based Cage]

Captain Cold confirmed better than Darkseid hold that shit you scrubs lawl

 

[KingHippo]

To be fair, flash is probably his best MU. Cold can look like a great character...until you play someone that stops trait and puddle shenanigans. That's like his entire gameplan.

...

 

[M2Dave]

HOLY CRAP WHAT HAPPENED TODAY TOTALLY CHANGED

Nothing...

I agree. Good Captain Cold players can win. The bad ones cannot.

 

[Vengeance135]

Exactly like joker. Joker sucks bad, us joker players can pull wins, it doesn't mean the character is good. We just outsmart our opponent or take advantage of the fact they have no MU experience. But we suck and jokers good so joker doesn't deserve buffs.... riiiiiiiiight.....

 

[thlityoursloat]

It did. Everyone will now think Cold is high tier and on the starfire stream I guarantee the staff will say "see? game is young and you never know, look at sonic, using cold tools properly" which means they think cold is in the "no changes" zone.

Which means they, along with everyone else who thinks this, are the most utterly.....i'll just stop here, i'll postpone getting banned a bit.

Meanwhile everyone playing the character will be thoroughly shit on by 90% of the cast and nobody will give a flying fuck.

Well, that's what happened with Joker, you CC players need to really expect the worst as far as the next patch is concerned.

 

[Zoidberg747]

lul guise batman can look like a great character... until you can stop his bats and aa him thats like his entire gameplan

...And you stop his pressure, the plethora of ways he can use bats, his zoning, AND his j2 shenanigans etc.

What Sonic did was pretty simple. Put MB puddle down, charge trait as much as possible, shoot out the ice field, charge trait to lvl 2 again, repeat. He executed it flawlessly, and of course his footsies are some of the best. And against a bunch of characters this simple strategy is really effective. However, if you're playing a deadshot player who doesn't give a shit about getting in, and who can pretty much punish you for charging trait at all, that gameplan becomes moot.

If Fox had won going Cold the whole time this would be a different story. But he didn't. The problem with cold isn't that he is useless all the time, it's that against quite a few characters his whole gameplan is just completely useless. He's a lot like grandmaster sub in that regard. Has a few really good matchups but gets bodied in just as many.

P.S. I don't even main cold, I've just played him for more than 5 minutes. There's a reason you don't see any Cold specialists doing well. Sure he's a great utility character, but surely people can see why players don't want their favorite characters as a "utility" character.

 

[B. Shazzy]

...And you stop his pressure, the plethora of ways he can use bats, his zoning, AND his j2 shenanigans etc.

What Sonic did was pretty simple. Put MB puddle down, charge trait as much as possible, shoot out the ice field, charge trait to lvl 2 again, repeat. He executed it flawlessly, and of course his footsies are some of the best. And against a bunch of characters this simple strategy is really effective. However, if you're playing a deadshot player who doesn't give a shit about getting in, and who can pretty much punish you for charging trait at all, that gameplan becomes moot.

If Fox had won going Cold the whole time this would be a different story. But he didn't. The problem with cold isn't that he is useless all the time, it's that against quite a few characters his whole gameplan is just completely useless. He's a lot like grandmaster sub in that regard. Has a few really good matchups but gets bodied in just as many.

P.S. I don't even main cold, I've just played him for more than 5 minutes. There's a reason you don't see any Cold specialists doing well. Sure he's a great utility character, but surely people can see why players don't want their favorite characters as a "utility" character.

huh what look bro i didnt even say anything to you but ill keep it simple. as a wise man once said:

I agree. Good Captain Cold players can win. The bad ones cannot lul

 

[KingHippo]

...And you stop his pressure, the plethora of ways he can use bats, his zoning, AND his j2 shenanigans etc.

What Sonic did was pretty simple. Put MB puddle down, charge trait as much as possible, shoot out the ice field, charge trait to lvl 2 again, repeat. He executed it flawlessly, and of course his footsies are some of the best. And against a bunch of characters this simple strategy is really effective. However, if you're playing a deadshot player who doesn't give a shit about getting in, and who can pretty much punish you for charging trait at all, that gameplan becomes moot.

If Fox had won going Cold the whole time this would be a different story. But he didn't. The problem with cold isn't that he is useless all the time, it's that against quite a few characters his whole gameplan is just completely useless. He's a lot like grandmaster sub in that regard. Has a few really good matchups but gets bodied in just as many.

P.S. I don't even main cold, I've just played him for more than 5 minutes. There's a reason you don't see any Cold specialists doing well. Sure he's a great utility character, but surely people can see why players don't want their favorite characters as a "utility" character.

So the argument is that he has some bad matchups, and Sonic didn't use him in one matchup, and now that's the reason why he's terrible and needs buffs? Do you see how that hyperbole is utterly baffling? You're also using the term utility character like it's a bad word, that's weird.

 

[Jynks]

what dose level 3 ice gun do?

 

[The chosen puddle]

what dose level 3 ice gun do?

Full screen freeze

 

[Tanno]

what dose level 3 ice gun do?

Full screen freeze, like Bi Han's Ice Radius from MK Mythologies: Sub Zero. It's D4.

Guys, fuck no. Cold isnt like GM Sub. He's more like UB Sub. He has the Ice Aura, the Wall and the Ice Trap, tools that are mostly defensive. The rest are just a fake version of Sub Zero's. As an utility fella, I like him, because he is mostly a defensive guy. Even if you get close to him it is punish time for you.

 

[haketh]

So the argument is that he has some bad matchups, and Sonic didn't use him in one matchup, and now that's the reason why he's terrible and needs buffs? Do you see how that hyperbole is utterly baffling? You're also using the term utility character like it's a bad word, that's weird.

The argument presented is bad but I'm not one to say Cold is good or even mid tier yet. Their was so much goddamn unfamiliarity from everyone at VN, no one even punished Ice Wall & it's so damn easy. Hell Whiteboi could barely do the glitch & always instantly blew his Traumatize instead of sitting on it. I still think the character is pretty garbo in like every MU outside of stuff like Flash & Bane.

 

[Zoidberg747]

So the argument is that he has some bad matchups, and Sonic didn't use him in one matchup, and now that's the reason why he's terrible and needs buffs? Do you see how that hyperbole is utterly baffling? You're also using the term utility character like it's a bad word, that's weird.

It isn't just that the matchups are bad. Atro has bad matchups, that's fine. It's that his bad matchups are 7-3 or worse. Bladam, Deadshot, Beetle, Ivy, Harley, Fate, etc. Those characters wreck him.

I don't think it's good design to have a character that has 7-3 matchups against characters and 3-7s against others. I said the same thing about grandmaster sub. It's lazy design and I doubt you'd find it in many other FGs.

Also yes I think having utility characters is dumb and is a cop out for bad design. I love inj 2 but Cold's design is not good and not well thought out. It is what it is though. In terms of matchup spread he's probably not bottom 5 like i've been saying, but people acting like he doesn't have issues are kind of silly.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

It isn't just that the matchups are bad. Atro has bad matchups, that's fine. It's that his bad matchups are 7-3 or worse. Bladam, Deadshot, Beetle, Ivy, Harley, Fate, etc. Those characters wreck him.

I don't think it's good design to have a character that has 7-3 matchups against characters and 3-7s against others. I said the same thing about grandmaster sub. It's lazy design and I doubt you'd find it in many other FGs.

Also yes I think having utility characters is dumb and is a cop out for bad design. I love inj 2 but Cold's design is not good and not well thought out. It is what it is though. In terms of matchup spread he's probably not bottom 5 like i've been saying, but people acting like he doesn't have issues are kind of silly.

Can you please explain the intricacies of the cold vs deadshot match?

 

[KingHippo]

It isn't just that the matchups are bad. Atro has bad matchups, that's fine. It's that his bad matchups are 7-3 or worse. Bladam, Deadshot, Beetle, Ivy, Harley, Fate, etc. Those characters wreck him.

I don't think it's good design to have a character that has 7-3 matchups against characters and 3-7s against others. I said the same thing about grandmaster sub. It's lazy design and I doubt you'd find it in many other FGs.

Also yes I think having utility characters is dumb and is a cop out for bad design. I love inj 2 but Cold's design is not good and not well thought out. It is what it is though. In terms of matchup spread he's probably not bottom 5 like i've been saying, but people acting like he doesn't have issues are kind of silly.

What is "lazy" about a character having very defined strengths and weaknesses? The goal cannot be to make every character well-rounded because it's a needlessly complicated route that will not pay off in the end.

Games have made characters with asymmetrical designs for years and many of them do have large imbalances in the character matchups, and this is very often the price of having distinct strengths and weaknesses on characters. I don't know why all of a sudden there has been this big blowup where everyone agreed that polarized tools are now symptomatic results of intentionally making characters "bad," but it's a terrible take.

Bringing it back to Cold, no one is saying that he doesn't have issues, and I'll never understand why this is always brought up when someone dares to say a character may be better than what is commonly thought. The argument is not that he doesn't have weaknesses or bad matchups; the argument is that, against what appeared to be all common knowledge, a character that was literally described as "not worth being in the game" won a major tournament largely by himself. Are Cold players mediocre and simply not taking advantage of his strengths in certain matchups? Was this an anomaly? Was this just an example of the best player of the game outshining his opponents?

There's a lot of questions to be had, but what should normally be a fun and exciting development has pretty much changed to a bunch of players chest-thumping and shutting down any type of discussion. It's brutal.

 

[M.D.]

Are Cold players mediocre and simply not taking advantage of his strengths in certain matchups?

No, obviously Cold can win his easier matchups, problem is they are far too few. There is no 6-4 matchup for Cold in this game, only a couple of 5-5 and the rest bad.

Was this an anomaly? Was this just an example of the best player of the game outshining his opponents?

Yes. If you lose with Superman, Batman, Aquaman, Deadshot, Catwoman, Atrocitus, Harley, Robin, Black Adam, Darkseid, Fate, Green Arrow (to quote the most used tournament chars, but there are more) there is no excuse. You are just bad and got completely outplayed by the opponent. There is NOTHING that came from captain cold that made you lose.

Problem is he still needs buffs, and nobody will care just because sonic won a tourney with him.
NOBODY else will ever win anything with him.
Once someone else actually wins a tourney with Cold that is not Sonic Fox I will shove the game up my ass and film it.

 

[AK Stormthegates]

Problem is he still needs buffs, and nobody will care just because sonic won a tourney with him.
NOBODY else will ever win anything with him.
Once someone else actually wins a tourney with Cold that is not Sonic Fox I will shove the game up my ass and film it.

Wait is this only for majors?

 

[Icy Black Deep]

Wow, one person uses Captain Cold and suddenly there are three pages of people who never gave a shit before flooding in to tell us how viable he is.


Here is why 3-7 matchups are bad game design: Let's say you sit down to a 5-5 matchup. First match is close, but you lose. So you stick it out and win the second match, hooray! Then you get counter-picked, possibly by a character that doesn't have anything worse than a 4-6. Oops.
Now if you're Sonic Fox and you like your chances on that initial 5-5, well congratulations. But that doesn't make it good design.

 

[Belial]

CC doesn't seem to have any 3-7 but has some 7-3 that's sure
Deadshot is not 3-7

 

[Vigilante24]

When you realize Captain Cold was better than Green Lantern after all.

 

[tafka Djinn]

Deadshot is not 3-7

^This. I may only keep my Snart sharp just in case I run into the wild Flash player, but Deadshot is in my regular rotation still, and after running it from both ends it's nowhere near a 3-7. Deadshot may be at advantage, but it's not Guile vs Bison.

 

[RiBBz22]

I agree. Good Captain Cold players can win. The bad ones cannot.

lul. TYM hivemind logic looks pretty bad right now for people jumping on the Cold train. He's always been good against rushdown characters that don't put anything on the screen. He does fine against Bane and Scarecrow. The only losing MU I personally saw Sonic Fox fight was probably against Superman/Deadshot. Not sure about the rest of the tournament. Props for beating Theo and smart for counter-picking Biohazzard's Deadshot.

 

[M.D.]

The only conclusion out of this is that Cold still needs tweaks and buffs, and the people saying he doesn't because Sonic won with him are _ _ _ _ _ .

Please insert all the ban-able words that TYM has a ban-able offense for in the space above.

 

[imblackjames]

Can you please explain the intricacies of the cold vs deadshot match?

It's essentially not only is it hard to get in on him (like every other character) is hard to get your trait up enough to actually matter. Not only that he has to spend lots of time using his ice wall to counter zone so by the time we've gotten up to him we either have no meter because we used ex wall. And the only combo we can really do is d1-wall. If we haven't used our meter then wed try to open you up with f23... Until you push block. And his projectile is so slow you DS doesn't have to respect it same with deathsicle. Plus once he's in its really hard to open people up (that's a general problem cold has)

 

[imblackjames]

Personally i think cold still needs help. Sonic is good so people respected him. Im not taking anything away from him in the slightest but i think like 25% was lack of MU knowledge