Match-up Discussion Capt.O2's Lobo MU Chart [Updated 1/19\15)

[Qwark28]

Not to defend breaking wordz because frankly he is a dick head, but are you saying because he's online he's not good? Just curious, I never played the dude because he rubbed me the wrong way in a party chat

Is he a squeaker

 

[Decay]

Is he a squeaker

Nah, I joined a party I was invited to and he was the leader. I guess he looked at my profile and said you're from nj? I replied yes. Then for about 5 minutes straight he kept telling me I should kill "myself because I'm a [ban incoming]" lol keep in mind I have never talked to that fool before. So I just ignored him and he kicked me from chat.. So from that day on I just think he's a prick haha I have no idea who he is

 

[Yoaks]

@GGA Saucy Jack The last couple of games I've played against a Doomsday player online, they've been pretty close. I was also thinking to myself about how I should approach this mu and I thought to myself "Wait? Why am I always dashing in on DD when I have tools like standing 3, Hook Charge, Low Hook and Pump Shots". It's obvious to me that I and the rest of my fellow Lobro's have just been playing this mu wrong.

EDIT: Also! I'm gonna be at GGA this Thursday! So we can run this mu if you want.

 

[Qwark28]

Nah, I joined a party I was invited to and he was the leader. I guess he looked at my profile and said you're from nj? I replied yes. Then for about 5 minutes straight he kept telling me I should kill "myself because I'm a [ban incoming]" lol keep in mind I have never talked to that fool before. So I just ignored him and he kicked me from chat.. So from that day on I just think he's a prick haha I have no idea who he is

Life as a cigarette much be tough.

 

[Decay]

@GGA Saucy Jack The last couple of games I've played against a Doomsday player online, they've been pretty close. I was also thinking to myself about how I should approach this mu and I thought to myself "Wait? Why am I always dashing in on DD when I have tools like standing 3, Hook Charge, Low Hook and Pump Shots". It's obvious to me that I and the rest of my fellow Lobro's have just been playing this mu wrong.

Weren't you a doomsday player? I always recall you using doomsday when I would fight you randomly online. I feel like you should know better than most how to avoid his tactics

 

[Eldriken]

Nah, I joined a party I was invited to and he was the leader. I guess he looked at my profile and said you're from nj? I replied yes. Then for about 5 minutes straight he kept telling me I should kill "myself because I'm a [ban incoming]" lol keep in mind I have never talked to that fool before. So I just ignored him and he kicked me from chat.. So from that day on I just think he's a prick haha I have no idea who he is

You're not missing out on anything. Trust me. Not knowing who he is should be considered a good thing.

He's a Kinetic member like me and yet he would always talk shit to me about how I played Doomsday because he didn't approve of it.

He's one of those individuals that you would be much better off having nothing to do with.

 

[Captain Oxygen]

You bring up a lot of good points in the DD Mu, I always thought that "You need to rush him down dawg" But comparing DD to characters like Bane or Grundy who have easy armor readily available in the neutral, Doomy seems a lot easier to space out. I have a doomsday on the side but I haven't ran the matchup with myself, wait no. I haven't ran Doomsday with anyone offline so I'll have to run that sometime.

Also I beat SonicFox's brother in tournament so hold that, Lobo v Catwoman is straight up 10-0 hella.

 

[Yoaks]

Weren't you a doomsday player? I always recall you using doomsday when I would fight you randomly online. I feel like you should know better than most how to avoid his tactics

I was. But I wasn't very good to be honest. So once I learned Lobo I started to get better at the game gradually. It's also different to deal with your former main's tactics when your playing a different character I feel.

 

[Eldriken]

I was. But I wasn't very good to be honest. So once I learned Lobo I started to get better at the game gradually. It's also different to deal with your former main's tactics when your playing a different character I feel.

Dude, it's hard to deal with your MAIN'S tactics. Fuck, lol. I know what Doomsday can do inside and out, yet I still get hit with my own shit when playing a good Doomsday player. -.-

 

[Yoaks]

Dude, it's hard to deal with your MAIN'S tactics. Fuck, lol. I know what Doomsday can do inside and out, yet I still get hit with my own shit when playing a good Doomsday player. -.-

It just goes to show you how good a character like Doomsday is. Hell even Batman and Aquaman. Neither of these characters have any real mixup's but yet they both find ways to open you up.

 

[Chongo]

Nah, I joined a party I was invited to and he was the leader. I guess he looked at my profile and said you're from nj? I replied yes. Then for about 5 minutes straight he kept telling me I should kill "myself because I'm a [ban incoming]" lol keep in mind I have never talked to that fool before. So I just ignored him and he kicked me from chat.. So from that day on I just think he's a prick haha I have no idea who he is

us new jersians never catch any slack

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I will say that I felt he blew up WW like a whore.

I never felt like I was out spacing or playing a position that Lobo didn't also want to play in.

And he can Oki her for days.

 

[Decay]

I will say that I felt he blew up WW like a whore.

I never felt like I was out spacing or playing a position that Lobo didn't also want to play in.

And he can Oki her for days.

I agree. Plus I came up with some tech against her to blow her up almost all the time. I'll post the video soon

 

[Yoaks]

I will say that I felt he blew up WW like a whore.

I never felt like I was out spacing or playing a position that Lobo didn't also want to play in.

And he can Oki her for days.

The only time shes really in control imo is when she has a solid life lead or has Lobo in the corner. Other than that I feel like Lobo has a slight edge in the neutral. Not saying WW can't do anything. Just like you said when Lobo knocks her down it isn't hard to oki her at all.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

If WW's parry would "stop" the hook charge from hitting on the 2nd hit.... then she'd have something. But he can just toss it out willy nilly on reaction to most of her moves.

IDK when I did play the MU i never felt safe anywhere. It was almost the same as fighting against AM. Difference being i could at least jump at Lobo and stuff his d2.

 

[GGA Fill Pops]

If someone is backdashing on wakeup do Low chain.

if they are back dashing a command grab after a hit hook charge then...lvl up your timing no one can back dash tht

 

[GGA Fill Pops]

This so much, you shouldn't base a Match Up on beating people a lot. You compare their tools and how they correspond and counter each others. A lot of times these threads divulge into "who I beat was better" arguments.

But as far as my experience with the matchup is.
Catwoman's J2 is really annoying if you don't understand how it works, off a max range J2 she can do F1 after it which is backdashable, but even that it doesn't lead to any mixups unless you block her J2 at Lobo's standing 3 range. J2 -> B1 doesn't connent, and J2 -> Low Whip is reactable and full combo punishable.

Her wakeups are pretty easy to stuff, her Catdash isn't fully invincible, and her Trait can be neutral jumped/MB B3'd through. And even at that her Trait leads to 1/2 the damage her Catdash would lead to.

Lobo has better Mixups off his strings and knockdowns, Lobo has better tools to rush down/space out Catwoman, and on top of his he can occasionally zone her out with Trait and does more damage on his combos. I don't see any advantage Catwoman has.

i totally agree, the only problems with her wakeups in this game are if she dosnt have trait then she dosnt have a wake up. very comfortable fighting her thanks to bit

 

[Billy Dha Kid]

Idk if anyone has corrected you already but I think you meant standing 2 when you were explaining grundy. Standing 3 with him is like saying come kill me

 

[Captain Oxygen]

Idk if anyone has corrected you already but I think you meant standing 2 when you were explaining grundy. Standing 3 with him is like saying come kill me

Fixed it, wasn't sure what exact normal it was.

 

[Captain Oxygen]

I've been thinking a lot about some of the matchups and I think a lot of them could be different. I'd like to spark up some more matchup conversation.

Bane is a really weird one, looking back at what I said in the Injustice podcast a lot of it still holds up. Lobo's damage, midrange, hook charge, footsies, everything still works on Bane. I don't think It's really a death match-up, it's probably just a match I need to grind out more.

Wonder Woman is a character I have trouble fighting against, but I haven't fought a WoWo in a long while. I've always had trouble with her footsies, but it does seem like she gets destroyed on wakeup.

Sinestro could be a winning match up for Lobo, I'll run it more but it feels like it's easier for Lobo.

Running it in my head, Doomsday does have to deal with a lot of Lobo's stuff as well as Lobo having to deal with doomy's stuff, like Saucy Jack said.

I still feel that Lobo has an advantage over Aquaman but a lot of people tell me otherwise, can @EMPEROR_THEO give your thoughts on the MU?

 

[Kyu]

I think the Bane mu number is correct. Hard 6-4 or 7-3. Yes Lobo's chains work but his pressure gets negated by venom specials. Bane has good answers to Lobo's tools, and Bane can run from Lobo fairly well on debuff. Hard 6-4 or 7-3.

 

[DreadKnight1]

I agree with the lex number

 

[RNLDRGN]

Since it's the cool thing this week, I'mma make a MU chart. But I'm gonna have a little fun with it.
I'm ranking every character based on what my reaction would be if I had to face him in tournament, and anaylze the MU from what I think.

I'm less experienced in some Match Ups than others, but this is what I have them as. I'm very open to opinions and discussion as opposed to " Nah son 5-5"

• "Dat EZ Life"

-Scorpion
Scorpion simply has to guess right more than Lobo a Lot. Playing patiently Lobo gets over 2x as much damage as Scorpion does when he guesses right. If Lobo guesses right on the vortex once thats a 50+% punish into Oki. Scorpion has to take more risks to get less damage.

Also MB Pumpshot does more damage than a Scorpion combo.

-Green Arrow
Green Arrow's rushdown can be effective, but without momentum Green Arrow is sort of helpless against Lobo's superior damage, space control, and mobility. Lobo can blow up Green Arrow on knockdown and Trait helps mitigate any sort of "Green Arrow Zoning".

Also MB Pumpshot does more damage than a Green Arrow combo.

• "Pretty Good Match Up"

-Aquaman
Lobo can play patiently against Aquaman. When Lobo has trait Aquaman can't do FTD, and when Lobo blocks a Trident Rush it gives you a guessing game between Grab/Hooks. Lobo with a lifelead can be tough for Aqua as Lobo can effectively keep Aquaman in Lobo's dominant Mid Range with Stand 3, Hook Charge, Low Hook, and Trait. Lobo can play patiently until he scores a knockdown in the midrange from an Antiair Stand 3, Hook Charge, or Low Hook. And once you score a knockdown its basically GG for Aquaman.

Lobo just has better control in this matchup, and Aquaman has a tougher time against a Lobo with a life lead than Lobo does against an Aquaman with a life lead.

-Ares
Ares can establish an offense and a sort of zoning game against Lobo, but Lobo does more damage, has better antiair, and without meter Ares is sort of helpless. Lobo has a better neutral and offense but has to respect Ares's projectiles and MB Teleport.

-Joker
Joker can have a tough time getting in on Lobo, and once he's knocked down it can be tough for Joker. A few of Lobo's strings can be parried but Lobo's mid range game is still just as strong. Jokers zoning is more or less irrelevant unless he has a life lead. If Lobo has trait he can whiff punish a gun shot, to which I'd gladly just get hit by the 8% Bang so I have trait.

Aside from setups and Joker's Corner/BGB game Lobo has better offense.
-Raven
When Lobo has trait Raven can't soul crush and has to stick to her high projectile. When Raven is traited up, her standard Pillar -> Pillar or Pillar -> Trait Grab frame trap doesn't actually work against Lobo's GDLK forward dash. Lobo's really strong in the mid range and destroys Raven on wakeup, Just play patiently and don't let Raven get away with any shenanigans and your good.

-Nightwing
Lobo has been Offense than NW, but can get zoned out. Lobo's mid range is reaaally good against Nightwing because of his limited mobility. When Lobo has trait it weakens one of Nightwings strongest Mid range tools, his Wingdings and punishable unless MB'd by trait gunshots. Lobo beats NW on knockdown pretty well. Lobo does better with a lifelead/momentum than Nightwing does with a lifelead/momentum.

-Harley
Harleys Zoning game can be annoying, but it's not much more than annoying. Once you get in Lobo does really well against Harley's limited offense. Harley's Air gun is punishable with Trait Pumpshot weakening her Mid Range game, which is where Lobo's really strong. Her wakeup can be tough at get around but offensively Harley has trouble.

-Hawkgirl
Hawkgirl's pressure can be annoying to sit through, but with patience you can get through it. Lobo does well against Hawkgirl on knockdown because of Hook Charge and Pumpshot. Forcing her to eat your pressure. Neither character wants to be in the corner versus the other character. Lobo can also forward dash under her air maces and get a J1 punish.

-Green Lantern
Green Lanterns zoning game is good, but once Lobo has trait it sort of evens out. Lobo can trait up for free after a whiffed Oa's rocket, whiffed rocket power, whiffed Machine Gun. or a whiffed air rocket. Once Lobo had trait he can punish a whiffed Oa's rocket, rocket power, and he can dash under his air rockets and get an antiair punish on GL's falling frames; unless he trait though.
Offensively GL's offense is limited, B13 is backdashable for a full combo punish, raw B1 is -12 punishable by Lobo's b1 or standing 3. B1 -> Minigun is interruptable. Once you master your punishes it can be tough for GL to rushdown Lobo. What helps GL in this matchup is his trait lift vortex. But he can't take risks or else he gets bopped.

-Catwoman
Catwoman and Lobo are both rushdown characters but Lobo has better Damage/Mixups. Trait is more or less free in this matchup, Catdash is full combo punishable. He has to respect her J2, but it doesn't lead to any mixups unless blocked upclose, to which Lobo can antiair easily. Lobo's midrange game is also strong against Catwoman... Also Low Whip is suuuuper negative.

-Shazam
Not an awful matchup for Shazam, but he has to guess right more and be really patient. In the neutral Lobo is much more dominant and has to take less risks. Shazam has to be patient and take risks, 22 mixups are full combo punishable. Lobo's trait is really useful in beating Shazams wakeup as you can catch both sides of the teleport after some combo enders.

Shazams vortex and mixup game are good enough versus Lobo's knockdown, and his wakeup can be tough to get around.

• "Even, gotta play better"

-Batman
Batman's zoning and pressure game can be a lot to withstand for Lobo, but once you get a knockdown it's not hard to just melt away Batman's entire lifebar in 2 combos. When Lobo has trait it helps fight against Batmans zoning, but with Batmans pressure and with meter he can easily establish momentum. It's a very momentum based match up.
-Cyborg
Cyborg has a strong zoning game against Lobo, but thanks to his forward dash and Trait it's not nearly as tough as it could be. Cyborgs wakeup game is really bad versus Lobo, and Cyborg basically has no offense. Cyborg has to keep up in neutral/zoning game really well against Lobo.

-Batgirl
Lobo does well against Batgirl in the neutral game, forcing her to take risks. To which are full combo punishble. Lobo's combos also do as much damage as 2 vortex guesses do from Batgirl. Batgirls Cartwheel options are all full combo punishable, and her J2/Teleport mixup can be MB B3'd to cover both options and punished.

-Black Adam
Black Adam's zoning game is actually good against Lobo, but in the midrange Lobo is dominant and Adam's wakeup is poor. With a life lead and momentum it feels tough for Black Adam to really force a comeback. But his offense with frame traps and with a life lead Black Adam is just as threatening.

-Sinestro
Lobo's offense against Sinestro is super strong, sinestros wakeup is really bad versus Lobo. With Trait Sinestro's cant do Fear Blasts without the fear of being punished by Pumpshots. Lobo generally has more control in this Matchup but once Sinestro has trait or gets you in the vortex it's can easily sway in Sinestro's favor.
-Killer Frost
Lobo's damage and space control are better than Frosts, but she has a vortex and can establish a grounded offense against Lobo. Post Slide isn't really in either characters favor, one option Lobo always has is to MB B3 after a blocked slide to force KF to respect his advantage, Lobo's B3 is +12. Once wrong guess from either side can be deadly.

-Flash
Flash has really good footsies in this match, but Lobo can keep up well enough and has better mixups. Flash's normals and dash are really hard to react to and has heavy momentum, to where Lobo has trouble keeping momentum against the Flash. I think it's in Flash's favor, but not heavily. It just comes down to who guesses right more.

-Deathstroke
A patient Deathstroke who plays the neutral well can be a tough thing to establish any momentum on with his projectiles and wakeups. But once you get momentum things can get bad for Deathstroke. Deathstrokes overall damage and rushdown isn't very overwhelming, but his control in the match is superior.

-Superman
Superman's zoning is tough but can be beaten out, Trait can punish the startup of any grouded eye laser, and his air lasers are unsafe unless MB'd. Superman has a lot of control offensively and in the neutral, but Lobo can keep up well enough. When Superman gets knocked down things get good for Lobo. If Lobo gets in the corner it's reallly hard to get out.

• "Oooh, that's tough"

-Lex Luthor
Lex's armor and setups are really tough to wade through, sort of like a more methodical Bane. But without trait Lobo has a superior neutral game, but once Lex is fullscreen he can do whatever he wants. Lobo needs to stay in range where you can Hook Charge/ Trait Pumpshot the startup on his toys/trait. A lifelead for Lobo is good until Lex actually gets armor out, to which you can lose all your life easily. Still, if Lobo knocks down Lex and is patient in the neutral it's winnable.

-Grundy
Lobo's Oki game is worthless against Grundy, while Grundy can easily establish offense against Lobo with his armor. Still, Grundys mobility can be good for Lobo, but he has so much more control in the match it's really tough. Grundys AA grab and Stand 2 are really strong footsie tools against Lobo, and if Lobo has to get in on Grundy with a lifelead it's reallll harsh.

-Zod
Zod's zoning is real tough for Lobo to get around, as well as his trait. But if you rush Zod down enough and punish his mistakes thing can sway in Lobo's favor. Still, Lobo has to be on point, stuffing his wakeup and punishing trait activation with Pumpshot.

-Doomsday
Once Doomsday gets momentum it's tough for most characters to get out of dodge, and Lobo is no different. His armor and rushdown are really strong versus Lobo, who has little answers against Doomsday. If you knock down Doomsday and guess right on the silly Up Venom/Venom wakeup game things can get better.

-MMH
Lobo needs to very patient against MMH, but Lobo's knockdown game is still strong against MMH. After Hook Charge, MMH's wakeups can be whiff punished. And with momentum Lobo can be tough for MMH. But Lobo has to get through MMH's zoning and rushdown with fuzzying B1/B2, and if he tries to go for instant air J1 you have to punish it. I feel that MMH's control is just really good against Lobo but Lobo can keep up well enough.

-Wonder Woman
Wonder Woman has much greater control versus Lobo, her mixups are good and her footsies help keep control and momentum. When Lobo gets a knockdown things can get bad for WoWo, but in neutral Wonder Woman is much better. Lobo's trait is helpful, but it doesn't get him very far against Wonder Woman.

-Zatanna
Zatanna has strong zoning and neutral, but once Lobo gets in his mid range game things are really good for Lobo. But what she lacks in actual rushdown, she has a strong vortex game. Lobo has to be patient and pick his spots right. I feel it's a bad matchup, but not a real death match up for Lobo.

• "Death Matchup GG"

-Bane
Bane's armor and traps are death for Lobo. Lobo has so much trouble escaping or "rushing down" Bane. Lobo's backdash is terrible. Lobo's Oki game is nigh worthless against Bane. Bane's debuff is practically nonexistent. Lobo just has to guess right 50x to beat Bane.
And the actual numbers
Aquaman 6-4
Ares 6-4
Bane 3-7
Batgirl 5-5
Batman 5-5
Black Adam 5-5
Catwoman 6-4
Cyborg 5-5
Doomsday 4-6
Deathstroke 5-5
Flash 5-5
Green Arrow 6-4
Green Lantern 6-4
Grundy 4-6
Harley Quinn 6-4
Hawkgirl 5-5
Joker 6-4
Killer Frost 5-5
Lex Luthor 4-6
MMH 5-5
Nightwing 6-4
Raven 6-4
Scorpion 7-3
Shazam 6-4
Sinestro 5-5
Superman 5-5
Wonder Woman 4-6
Zatanna 4-6
Zod 4-6
11 Winning
11 Even
7 Losing

Feel free to argue any of these, I have less experience against some characters than others. And also against some of the matchups I feel good about, some other Lobo mains may play them differently.

I remember you telling me that Shazam is Lobo's worst MU at WB when we played. Glad to see you've seen the light.

 

[Captain Oxygen]

I remember you telling me that Shazam is Lobo's worst MU at WB when we played. Glad to see you've seen the light.

Yea dude, at Winter Brawl I remember thinking Lobo was garbage and I could never win with him... at the time I'm pretty sure that was the general census on Lobo as well

 

[SaltFace NS]

I disagree with your Harley number good sir. It is 5-5 not a 4-6 in Lobo's favor.