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Buffs And Nerfs Wishlist

What are your thoughts?

  • Its Glorius

  • Its good for the most part but could use some changes

  • Its not that good and a lot could use some changes

  • Its Garbage


Results are only viewable after voting.

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Scorpion Buffs

Inferno Buffs
DB1 should be -5 on block (from -21 block advantage)
DB1 Meter Burn should be 11 frame start up, +4 on block and be +17 on hit (from 24 frame start up, -21 on block and +4 on hit)
DB2 should be 16 frame start up, -9 on block and +9 on hit (from 28 frame start up, -19 on block and -8 on hit)
DB2 Meter Burn should be be 16 frame start up, -5 on block, have increased pushback on block and +9 on hit (from 28 frame start up, -19 on block and -1 on hit)

Hellfire Buffs
DB2 and DB2 Meter Burn should be +2 on hit (from -1 hit advantage)
DB2 Meter Burn should have no damage scaling off OTGs

Scorpion Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D4 should have an increased hurtbox
Jump 3 should be normalized or toned down

Ninjutsu Nerf
F2 should be -17 on block (from -11 on block)

Hellfire Nerfs
Flame aura should have reduced active frames and be -15 on block (from -11 on block)
I don't think any of those Inferno buffs are whats really needed to make Inferno a proper complimentary variation for Scorpion.

Those Hellfire buffs just seem like janky compensation buffs but I'll get to that in a minute...

Nerfs to D4 and J3 are too vague without any real elaboration.

Ninjutsu F2 -17 on block... just...why?

The Flame Aura nerfs contradict each other. If you want to give a window to whiff punish it (which some disjointed attacked already can) why would you also make it more punishable on block? If the activation of Flame Aura could be used concurrently after one is active this could make sense but right now it doesn't compute.

Ancestral Buffs
All summoned arrows should be kept without going away
Hasn't this buff been asked for in like 8 consecutive versions of the game? (I don't think I'm exaggerating that number either) I don't mean to throw shade but people should really get it into their heads by now that NRS are never going to follow through with this buff.

Warlock Buffs
DF1 should be +6 on hit and should be a hard knockdown on hit (from -5 on hit)
DF1 Meter Burn should be 8.00% (from 2.00% damage)
DF2 should be -6 on block (from -14 on block)
F3 should be a hard knockdown on hit
The last hit of 2,1,F3 should be a hard knockdown on hit
Already went over these in your previous patch wishlist. These are all largely insignificant. For now I could live with Warlock just being given a reliable armoured move again.
Mystic Nerfs
BF2 Meter Burn shouldnt be able to trade with opponents and lead to a full combo
BF2 Meter Burn should be -20 on block (from -6 on block)
BF2 Meter Burn should have reduced active frames
BF2 Meter Burn shouldn't hit opponents from behind Ermac
So basically make Mystic worse than Day 1 Mystic with no compensation buffs?

 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Reading through just now but one thing I noticed King Jr:
Kenjutsu Buffs
B2 should be 22 frame start up and should be +5 on block (from 27 frame start up and -18 on block)
B2 is -4 on block, it was changed from -18 back in the March MKXL patch :p
 
Do whatever you want with Sonya demo but please bring her 3 nadie in a combo back. She got super dull after they took that away, Sonya forum is a ghost town now.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Fix whiffing issues on Pretty Lady and maybe change some weirdly low hit advantage stuff and you have a dream come true for Leatherface.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
what would you suggest, idk much of dvorah since the most recent changes
BM and SQ don't really NEED anything. They're solid mid characters. I don't like to mess around with stuff I don't think is broken just because I'd like it to be better than it is.

But in the spirit of fun, things you could do to improve them would be to revert the puddle recovery in SQ, so puddle oki becomes a thing again, but it's only +3. Put the old plus frames on ex puddle, give her something to actually spend meter on other than f11~ex bug and breakers.

Maybe improve BM's zoning/counter zoning by knocking some frames off her projectile (while maintaining cancel timing/advantage). In a lot of matchups, BM gets zoned just as hard as Venomous because her projectile is 29f high.

Venomous is hard to balance. Too much and she'll be totally broken, leave her like she is and she is utterly mediocre. She has next to no tools to get in on an opponent except dash, run, and x-ray. She also has, in my opinion, the worst neutral of the three variations, despite some people believe her extra damage on pokes makes it best. She can't combo off of f11 like the others, so any extra damage she'd get from an errant poke is just not going to balance that out.

The easy thing to do for Venomous would be to improve her comboability by allowing her to MB a launching burst off of spray, just enough for a d1, rc 112~db4. Most likely shouldn't allow more than one spray per combo. It would make her better. Probably too much better. She'd be an anti armor powerhouse again, getting full combos when she breaks it, her counter poke game would be insane, and she'd be able to combo off f11. She'd probably be broken up close, but she'd still get zoned at least.

REO's suggestions for Venomous were very good as well. They'd do wonders and would likely be much less problematic.
 

P3irce

Noob
I mostly play Erron and Kotal so here are my thoughts

the universal buffs on erron black would make him very strong. If you revert his f1 back to normal his ji2 should be normalized imo.

Frankly if i was going to balance him universally id make f1 same startup as sonyas overhead , f2 to be ~ 12 frames, and for ex sand grenade to push opponent to range where f3 always connects but has gap ( as it is now)

With kotal i'd honestly keep b1 high, revert BG and projectile frame changes, make air grab upper body invincible and normalize j1 and d4
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
my solution to his dumb throw into clone was that it dissipates when he whiffs a throw like for example if you make the correct read that he is going to throw you and you neytral crouch it still doesnt go away which i think is stupid
nah it should just go away on throw period, he's already got his dumb 50/50 you gotta watch out for, he doesnt need to be gettin combo's of an UNBLOCKABLE STARTER in the corner. (face it thats what his throw is in the corner)
 

xMEECH

Dyslexic
I like a lot of these changes. I'm gonna write out a super unnecessarily long comment with everything I like/wonder why you listed it.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
The main nerf Grandmaster Sub should get is to remove the pushback on B2 so it actually behaves like a -13, but the other variations would need to be compensated.
 

xMEECH

Dyslexic
The main nerf Grandmaster Sub should get is to remove the pushback on B2 so it actually behaves like a -13, but the other variations would need to be compensated.
It's -13 even with max pushback. Pushback doesn't change block advantage. If a character had a fullscreen 13 frame special they'd be able to punish it no matter how much pushback it has.

But yeah pushback can make something -13 "safe" by moving you farther than any of your 12 frame normals will reach
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
It's -13 even with max pushback. Pushback doesn't change block advantage. If a character had a fullscreen 13 frame special they'd be able to punish it no matter how much pushback it has.

But yeah pushback can make something -13 "safe" by moving you farther than any of your 12 frame normals will reach
Yeah I know the block advantage doesn't change with pushback. B2 should just be a clean punish because Sub got to keep his fast overhead so it should at least be a consistent punish. Plus he still can be safe(er) behind the klone.
 
I would like to see Sub's B2 get like 40 more recovery on whiff. It's okay for him to have a hard to punish overhead launcher, especially if throw tech immunity frames are added as suggested above. But after whiffing a B2 he can instantly slap another 50/50 on my face, this is way too ridiculous
 

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
Gonna comment on what I know. My Responses in Bold.

FOREVER KINGS LIST

Quan Chi Buffs

Universal Buffs
D1 hit advantage should return to how it was originally

Unneeded, D3 is a good tool

Make air DB2 and air DB2 Meter Burn both overheads (from mids)

Also unneeded. Would add maybe some more fun to blockables that he does not need. Hes got tons already. Imagine low bat ex skull. Stupid.

Sorcerer Buff
All attacks benefitted from DD1 should drain meter rather than only depleting it

Sorcerer is his best variation by far, does not need any buffs especially to dd1. Chip spell is the only one that should be touched and very carefully at that.

Warlock Buffs
DF1 should be +6 on hit and should be a hard knockdown on hit (from -5 on hit)
It currently is a hard knockdown on hit, I could deal with plus frames.

DF1 Meter Burn should be 8.00% (from 2.00% damage)
DF2 should be -6 on block (from -14 on block)
F3 should be a hard knockdown on hit
NO! F3 not being a hard knockdown on hit is what makes this move so good. When you tech roll it you roll towards his foot, so you roll backwards. As a counter zoning tool this helps him keep you away from him and force you to zone more(see Full auto jacqui, one of his best MUs)
The last hit of 2,1,F3 should be a hard knockdown on hit
As of Testing it now in the lab it is.

Quan Chi Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D3 should be -4 on block (from -1 on block)
Nope, only defensive tool
Jump 1 should be normalized or toned down
Unneccessary


Although I like that @ForeverKing is acknowledging quan has flaws and would like to fix them, i think you're going a bit too overboard. Here's the changes I would like to see.

SHUJINKYDINKS QUAN CHANGES

General-

Ex Rune no longer able to delay, stays -1

-This would help with a few glitches. One is the camera becoming disoriented after a delayed rune, and two is using a bar of meter when trying to block a jip midscreen. Neither of which im sure was intended.

- b32~special gap removed. This is both a buff and a nerf. It removes the guessing aspect from the other party as to whether to attempt a backdash, or eat the b324 combo and rather make a read on the follow up attack. Quan could also link into EX skull which would put him +6 but guarantee nothing but a read on what the opponent could do after.

Delay B2 is -4

This move is useless outside of summoner with his hard to blockables, this would guarantee the opponent got a chance to move if blocked correctly instead of being +2. Honestly just a useless move in general.


Summoner Quan Chi

Demon Grab is now 15 frames (up from 22)

Will allow for more tick throw setups


Sorcerer Quan Chi

-dd2 now does .5% damage over time on air or grounded opponent.

-dd2 is now 35 frame startup(down from 31)

This will allow for a more viable use for this spell as it will reward you for quans true strength which is 50/50s and the mix. Damage over time will scale in a similar way Master of Storms Raidens does in combos allowing for slight damage boost in combos, but more in chip giving a few different ways to play the character.

Warlock Quan Chi

-DF2 MB is consistent hit advantage whether landed in air or on ground and regardless of combo

Currently this move has less hit advantage when done in certain combos than others, disallowing a combo from the restand unless just framed.

-DF2 MB is 10 frame startup(down from 21)

This would make all 3 hits of armour work as intended, while providing nothing but unsafe 50/50s unless more meter is used.

-DF1 Now is -11

-DF1 MB is -22

-DF1 MB now has one hit of armour.

-DF1 now has a MB option

Only the MB'd option has an option to launch to be consistent with other charcters in the game.


@michaelangelo
@Israfel
@The_Tile
@PND_Ketchup
@Rude
@Conflict_90
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I can't take seriously any suggestions about Quan unless there is a section acklowledging how stupid sorcerer corner game is, and a way to normalize it.
 
Wouldn't making lackeys roll a HDK neuter all his combos?
I dont mean a hard knockdown to where it will change his combos, im saying like he can still do his combos but you know how sometimes you dont want to end combos in command grab or if you want to put your opponent to the otherside and use ball roll they shouldnt be able to tech roll. it was make sense too because when you get hit by ball roll or meter burn ball roll the opponent lands facedown and usually those are hard knockdowns but not in ball rolls case. it wouldnt change his combos at all it would just keep the opponent close to lackey at all times cause the bad thing about lackey is hes not always next to his opponent. if you command grab them then depending on what character youre facing lackey has to get back in on his opponent and say you were playing a zoner like shinnok, you wouldnt want to have to get back in on him everytime you did a command grab. same with ball roll, you can just tech roll and lackey has to get back in which i dont like. pretty much youre throwing your opponent away from you which isnt something lackey wants to do, he loses his projectiles so theres no point in being far from the opponent so he always wants to be next to his opponent as much as possible. I went kind of in depth on your comment lol my bad
 
Gonna comment on what I know. My Responses in Bold.

FOREVER KINGS LIST

Quan Chi Buffs

Universal Buffs
D1 hit advantage should return to how it was originally

Unneeded, D3 is a good tool

Make air DB2 and air DB2 Meter Burn both overheads (from mids)

Also unneeded. Would add maybe some more fun to blockables that he does not need. Hes got tons already. Imagine low bat ex skull. Stupid.

Sorcerer Buff
All attacks benefitted from DD1 should drain meter rather than only depleting it

Sorcerer is his best variation by far, does not need any buffs especially to dd1. Chip spell is the only one that should be touched and very carefully at that.

Warlock Buffs
DF1 should be +6 on hit and should be a hard knockdown on hit (from -5 on hit)
It currently is a hard knockdown on hit, I could deal with plus frames.

DF1 Meter Burn should be 8.00% (from 2.00% damage)
DF2 should be -6 on block (from -14 on block)
F3 should be a hard knockdown on hit
NO! F3 not being a hard knockdown on hit is what makes this move so good. When you tech roll it you roll towards his foot, so you roll backwards. As a counter zoning tool this helps him keep you away from him and force you to zone more(see Full auto jacqui, one of his best MUs)
The last hit of 2,1,F3 should be a hard knockdown on hit
As of Testing it now in the lab it is.

Quan Chi Nerfs

Universal Nerfs
D3 should be -4 on block (from -1 on block)
Nope, only defensive tool
Jump 1 should be normalized or toned down
Unneccessary


Although I like that @ForeverKing is acknowledging quan has flaws and would like to fix them, i think you're going a bit too overboard. Here's the changes I would like to see.

SHUJINKYDINKS QUAN CHANGES

General-

Ex Rune no longer able to delay, stays -1

-This would help with a few glitches. One is the camera becoming disoriented after a delayed rune, and two is using a bar of meter when trying to block a jip midscreen. Neither of which im sure was intended.

- b32~special gap removed. This is both a buff and a nerf. It removes the guessing aspect from the other party as to whether to attempt a backdash, or eat the b324 combo and rather make a read on the follow up attack. Quan could also link into EX skull which would put him +6 but guarantee nothing but a read on what the opponent could do after.

Delay B2 is -4

This move is useless outside of summoner with his hard to blockables, this would guarantee the opponent got a chance to move if blocked correctly instead of being +2. Honestly just a useless move in general.


Summoner Quan Chi

Demon Grab is now 15 frames (up from 22)

Will allow for more tick throw setups


Sorcerer Quan Chi

-dd2 now does .5% damage over time on air or grounded opponent.

-dd2 is now 35 frame startup(down from 31)

This will allow for a more viable use for this spell as it will reward you for quans true strength which is 50/50s and the mix. Damage over time will scale in a similar way Master of Storms Raidens does in combos allowing for slight damage boost in combos, but more in chip giving a few different ways to play the character.

Warlock Quan Chi

-DF2 MB is consistent hit advantage whether landed in air or on ground and regardless of combo

Currently this move has less hit advantage when done in certain combos than others, disallowing a combo from the restand unless just framed.

-DF2 MB is 10 frame startup(down from 21)

This would make all 3 hits of armour work as intended, while providing nothing but unsafe 50/50s unless more meter is used.

-DF1 Now is -11

-DF1 MB is -22

-DF1 MB now has one hit of armour.

-DF1 now has a MB option

Only the MB'd option has an option to launch to be consistent with other charcters in the game.


@michaelangelo
@Israfel
@The_Tile
@PND_Ketchup
@Rude
@Conflict_90
I see what you mean for the air skulls staying mid lol, i didnt even think to wonder what summoner would do with that. I think sorcerers dd1 could use something and also his dd2 since dd3 is the only used one 99 percent of the time. my mistake on the warlock hard knockdowns df1 and 2,1,f3, i couldve swarn they werent hard knockdowns before. you have some good ideas for quan chi like puggles grab is faster, that would be cool to see. i think his d3 should be nerfed though cause it can easily be mashed most of the time, my brother abuses me with it. as soon as i get opened up by a d3 its time to guess hahaha. even on block he mashes it and sometimes my poke gets beat so i think it should get toned just a bit and it also anti airs and has a small hurtbox so i would just make it more minus thats all. your warlock suggestions are pretty good, i like yours better honestly. i also like how you buffed some of his things but compensated by no delays in ruin anymore which is nice. cool stuff
 
I would like to see Sub's B2 get like 40 more recovery on whiff. It's okay for him to have a hard to punish overhead launcher, especially if throw tech immunity frames are added as suggested above. But after whiffing a B2 he can instantly slap another 50/50 on my face, this is way too ridiculous
HAHAHA his b2 is insane, it actually anti airs pretty well too. If he got his throw immunity nerf id keep him the same, plus his b2 is really only a problem in grandmaster behind a clone so i dont mind b2 so much
 
Not necessarily, Kung laos B321 is a hard knockdown but he can combo off it just fine.
YES! he has the right idea, thats exactly how i would make lackeys ball roll and meter burn ball roll. Thats a real good way to put it cause i just gave him like a paragraph about it lol