Buffs And Nerfs Wishlist

[FOREVER KING JR]

I mostly play Erron and Kotal so here are my thoughts

the universal buffs on erron black would make him very strong. If you revert his f1 back to normal his ji2 should be normalized imo.

Frankly if i was going to balance him universally id make f1 same startup as sonyas overhead , f2 to be ~ 12 frames, and for ex sand grenade to push opponent to range where f3 always connects but has gap ( as it is now)

With kotal i'd honestly keep b1 high, revert BG and projectile frame changes, make air grab upper body invincible and normalize j1 and d4

I agree with the erron stuff, his only good mid was his d1 but nothing else. if he could follow up with something after ex sang grenade 100 percent of the time like you said his f3 that would help a lot but i think kotals b1 shouldve stayed a mid, it wasnt all that bad it was just what b1 lead to like in war god it was his main string which lead to sword 50/50s but other than that i think his b1 was fine. do you like the blood god buffs, ive been wondering what peoples thoughts are on that but nobody commented on them

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

BM and SQ don't really NEED anything. They're solid mid characters. I don't like to mess around with stuff I don't think is broken just because I'd like it to be better than it is.

But in the spirit of fun, things you could do to improve them would be to revert the puddle recovery in SQ, so puddle oki becomes a thing again, but it's only +3. Put the old plus frames on ex puddle, give her something to actually spend meter on other than f11~ex bug and breakers.

Maybe improve BM's zoning/counter zoning by knocking some frames off her projectile (while maintaining cancel timing/advantage). In a lot of matchups, BM gets zoned just as hard as Venomous because her projectile is 29f high.

Venomous is hard to balance. Too much and she'll be totally broken, leave her like she is and she is utterly mediocre. She has next to no tools to get in on an opponent except dash, run, and x-ray. She also has, in my opinion, the worst neutral of the three variations, despite some people believe her extra damage on pokes makes it best. She can't combo off of f11 like the others, so any extra damage she'd get from an errant poke is just not going to balance that out.

The easy thing to do for Venomous would be to improve her comboability by allowing her to MB a launching burst off of spray, just enough for a d1, rc 112~db4. Most likely shouldn't allow more than one spray per combo. It would make her better. Probably too much better. She'd be an anti armor powerhouse again, getting full combos when she breaks it, her counter poke game would be insane, and she'd be able to combo off f11. She'd probably be broken up close, but she'd still get zoned at least.

REO's suggestions for Venomous were very good as well. They'd do wonders and would likely be much less problematic.

reo does have some good suggestions for venomous, idk what i would do with dvorahs puddle though because that move was obnoxious prepatch but brood fathers projectiles could be better than 29 frames and just slightly more combo potential for venomous would be helpful

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

Fix whiffing issues on Pretty Lady and maybe change some weirdly low hit advantage stuff and you have a dream come true for Leatherface.

Yea i agree, i wish they would have done something better with leatherface lol. i think my ideas would help and i dont think any of them are major or rediculous

 

[M.D.]

*Scrolled down to A-list directly without reading anything else
*Saw nothing mentioned about the stupid random added frame on block cancelling
*Ignored the entire post, dislike and went to discredit the whole thing

Useless changes mod please delete thread

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

I don't think any of those Inferno buffs are whats really needed to make Inferno a proper complimentary variation for Scorpion.

Those Hellfire buffs just seem like janky compensation buffs but I'll get to that in a minute...

Nerfs to D4 and J3 are too vague without any real elaboration.

Ninjutsu F2 -17 on block... just...why?

The Flame Aura nerfs contradict each other. If you want to give a window to whiff punish it (which some disjointed attacked already can) why would you also make it more punishable on block? If the activation of Flame Aura could be used concurrently after one is active this could make sense but right now it doesn't compute.



Hasn't this buff been asked for in like 8 consecutive versions of the game? (I don't think I'm exaggerating that number either) I don't mean to throw shade but people should really get it into their heads by now that NRS are never going to follow through with this buff.


Already went over these in your previous patch wishlist. These are all largely insignificant. For now I could live with Warlock just being given a reliable armoured move again.


So basically make Mystic worse than Day 1 Mystic with no compensation buffs?

inferno needs some better zoning, hellfire could be a little toned down just a bit. ninjutsus f2 should be more punishable because it isnt very consistently punished for being -11 especially in some distances. Dink has some good ideas on warlock so forget about mine and mystic with those nerfs would still be really good, i just dont think he should have an armored move that he can just abuse thats safe and does many effects all at once. he would still have 50/50s and his pressure and stuff

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

*Scrolled down to A-list directly without reading anything else
*Saw nothing mentioned about the stupid random added frame on block cancelling
*Ignored the entire post, dislike and went to discredit the whole thing

Useless changes mod please delete thread

i never heard of the added frame on block canceling you mentioned, whats that about?

 

[Skedar70]

I think MKX doesn't need these many changes. If you look at the Raptors tier list which is somewhat accurate you can tell that its pretty balanced. Some of the character should not be touched at all and any patch should only address weak variations like warrior, master of storms or drunken master and characters too strong like Mileena. Mileena not being able to be AA while she can AA anybody is an unbalanced situation. A patch with too many changes might leave the game in a worse state.

 

[xMEECH]

Instead of having no changes for cybernetic, if anything, change the hit reaction of B2 so that they're not pushed as far away, as the second hit B23 will whiff is B2 was done at a certain range. Just make the hit reaction like a d1 or d3 where they aren't pushed back on hit.

 

[P3irce]

Blood God Buffs
DB2 should return to it's normal active frames
Blood God should have a command grab that is 14 frame start up, the same whiff recovery as Sun God's command grab, does 7% and is +12 on hit. Blood has no good combo enders except for DB3 Meter Burn so being able to end combos in something better would help Blood God and it being a command grab would help better open up opponents. This command grab has no meter burn version so Blood God still has 0 wake up attacks.
Blood God should have 3 sets of different meter burn totems with different effects. They can be DB1 and DB3 combined for offense and health regeneration but goes away if Kotal Kahn is hit which is like a gamble for a bar. Another set should be DB2 and DB3 combined for defensive and comeback purposes but don't go away on hit. The last set should be DB1 and DB2 but it should only last 5 seconds for a mixture of offense and defense and don't go away on hit

I agree with the erron stuff, his only good mid was his d1 but nothing else. if he could follow up with something after ex sang grenade 100 percent of the time like you said his f3 that would help a lot but i think kotals b1 shouldve stayed a mid, it wasnt all that bad it was just what b1 lead to like in war god it was his main string which lead to sword 50/50s but other than that i think his b1 was fine. do you like the blood god buffs, ive been wondering what peoples thoughts are on that but nobody commented on them

Well its hard to say. If blood god got a command throw i feel it would mesh the non war god variations too much. I like how unique Kotal is overall from variation to variation. Maybe instead making it like jasons thoat choke that is a combo ender but doesn't tic throw.

I kinda dig the idea of the mb totems, its a very interesting concept to say the least but would also be hard to tell how well it would do, especially if you wanted to add frames from his d1 / d4. I def agree with no wakeups for blood god if he did get defense totem back though

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

Blood God Buffs
DB2 should return to it's normal active frames
Blood God should have a command grab that is 14 frame start up, the same whiff recovery as Sun God's command grab, does 7% and is +12 on hit. Blood has no good combo enders except for DB3 Meter Burn so being able to end combos in something better would help Blood God and it being a command grab would help better open up opponents. This command grab has no meter burn version so Blood God still has 0 wake up attacks.
Blood God should have 3 sets of different meter burn totems with different effects. They can be DB1 and DB3 combined for offense and health regeneration but goes away if Kotal Kahn is hit which is like a gamble for a bar. Another set should be DB2 and DB3 combined for defensive and comeback purposes but don't go away on hit. The last set should be DB1 and DB2 but it should only last 5 seconds for a mixture of offense and defense and don't go away on hit



Well its hard to say. If blood god got a command throw i feel it would mesh the non war god variations too much. I like how unique Kotal is overall from variation to variation. Maybe instead making it like jasons thoat choke that is a combo ender but doesn't tic throw.

I kinda dig the idea of the mb totems, its a very interesting concept to say the least but would also be hard to tell how well it would do, especially if you wanted to add frames from his d1 / d4. I def agree with no wakeups for blood god if he did get defense totem back though

i reduced frames on his pokes because if he got his b1 back to a mid then why does he need 6 frame pokes when he already has a forward advancing safe 9 frame mid you know? his pokes shouldve been toned a long time ago in my opinion before his b1 became a high

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

Instead of having no changes for cybernetic, if anything, change the hit reaction of B2 so that they're not pushed as far away, as the second hit B23 will whiff is B2 was done at a certain range. Just make the hit reaction like a d1 or d3 where they aren't pushed back on hit.

i know what youre talking about, i agree with that. happens to me too but it slipped my mind

 

[CrazyFingers]

Yea i agree, i wish they would have done something better with leatherface lol. i think my ideas would help and i dont think any of them are major or rediculous

Yea I like em. But he legit has some terrible hit advantage on some stuff. It's dumb.

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

I think MKX doesn't need these many changes. If you look at the Raptors tier list which is somewhat accurate you can tell that its pretty balanced. Some of the character should not be touched at all and any patch should only address weak variations like warrior, master of storms or drunken master and characters too strong like Mileena. Mileena not being able to be AA while she can AA anybody is an unbalanced situation. A patch with too many changes might leave the game in a worse state.

i think this is true, i just gave some characters minor changes but yes it is quite a list. the only characters i think that actually NEED what i listed were cyrax, leatherface, kitana, drunken master, and some other characters that are too good or not good enough

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

Yea I like em. But he legit has some terrible hit advantage on some stuff. It's dumb.

i liked how butcher was like +24 on hit after 2,2 haha. i use f1 now which is like +17 on hit i think but theres not much else thats that good of hit advantage

 

[CrazyFingers]

i liked how butcher was like +24 on hit after 2,2 haha. i use f1 now which is like +17 on hit i think but theres not much else thats that good of hit advantage

There's like F1 and then in Killer/Pretty Lady S2 is +20 on hit. Other than that his frame data isn't great.

 

[FOREVER KING JR]

There's like F1 and then in Killer/Pretty Lady S2 is +20 on hit. Other than that his frame data isn't great.

seeing havik and noob makes me miss mk deception a lot more hahaha

 

[CrazyFingers]

seeing havik and noob makes me miss mk deception a lot more hahaha

DUDE. I miss them so much man. Hope MK11 doesn't fuck up and not include them AGAIN.

 

[Pan1cMode]

No Jacqui changes? Here's what I propose.

Universal changes:
- db1 7 frame startup (from 11)
- bf2 -11 on block (from -9)
- 4u4 -1 on block (from +2)
- Increased upward hitbox on d3 (similar to ermac's d3)
- air dd4 block advantage decreased by 4 frames
- bf1 and ex bf1 whiff recovery cut in half
- bf1 1 hit of armour (from 2)
- ex bf4 given 2 hits of armour

Full auto changes:
- df2 chip damage halfed
- df2 4 extra whiff recovery frames
- db3 -5 on block (from -1)
- further damage scaling on db2 and ex db2

Shotgun changes:
- ex df2 +2 on block with no pushback (from -1)

High tech:
- db2 startup made 45 frames (from 60)
- when gauntlets are active, all punching normals receive increased range
- when Jacqui absorbs a projectile with db1, she gains a gauntlet charge
- Jacqui can use db2 when gauntlets are fully charged to "reset" the cool down timer on her gauntlets
- Jacqui can choose to expend a gauntlet charge to fire a single projectile with properties similar to Sonya's MB ring toss. Input for this is df1
- level 1 df2 block advantage reduced by 2 frames



My reasoning for the changes is as follows:

Changing db1 to 7 frames brings it in line with other projectile reflects such as Kenshi's and Kotal's. Given that hers doesn't actually reflect the projectile (unless meter burned) doesn't work against non-projectiles (like Kenshi's and kotal's do) and has significantly more recovery, I think this is a pretty fair change.

bf2 change nerfs the strength of her 50/50s. It's also a pretty big nerf to high tech who mainly uses this to get in.

4u4 nerf. An 11 frame normal that launches doesn't need to be plus on block.

d3 buff. Gives her a dependable anti-air. It looks very similar to ermac's too so the change would be pretty seemelss. Also gives her a reason to use d3 (which she currently does not have).

dd4 nerf. As an aerial move, the block advantage is dependent on the height from which this move hits the ground as well as the frame which it connects (e.g. More plus frames on meaty). It can be made upwards of +7 on block with correct timing. This nerf would allow her to maintain the strength of this move, but prevent it from jailing into s1 on meaty.

bf1 change. The improvements to whiff recovery are an effort to compensate high tech for the loss of safe bf2 which she depends on to get in. The move is still death on block (at -27) and a high. It would behave more like a slower, worse hitbox, slide move (eg. Sub's or reptiles) being safer on whiff but significantly punishable on block. In return for decreasing whiff recovery, it loses its second hit of armour.

ex bf4 change buff. This is the prototype of a move that should have double armour. Very unsafe on block, easily baited and a straightforward hitbox that can be jumped over. This change would give Jacqui players an incentive to actually use this move.


Full auto changes nerf the reward Jacqui gets for playing correctly (less damage and less chip) but allows her to mostly maintain her play style. db3 change means it's the opponent's turn if they correctly block a low rocket mixup. Extra whiff recovery on df2 makes it easier to punish Jacqui for being mindless with her guns.


Shotgun buff gives more utility to ex df2 as a means to maintain frame trap pressure at the cost of a bar. Given the nerfs to bf2 which prevent shotgun from getting any safe mixup, this small buff helps compensate this change.


High tech changes are built around maintaining its unique play style with all its weaknesses but allowing the high tech player a method to overcome this. These changes encourage the high tech player to get gauntlet buffs up and to maintain them to play high tech at its best. The addition of a projectile allows high tech to fire back against some opponents who are relentlessly zoning her, but at the cost of a charge of her gauntlets which she needs in order to be able to play footsies and maintain pressure (also it's cannon since she has a high tech projectile in story mode). Base high tech would still have all her range issues, all her issues with getting in, and randomly buffing gauntlets in the neutral would be a big risk, but once buffed high tech would actually be able to play footsies and would be considered a threat.

 

[P3irce]

i reduced frames on his pokes because if he got his b1 back to a mid then why does he need 6 frame pokes when he already has a forward advancing safe 9 frame mid you know? his pokes shouldve been toned a long time ago in my opinion before his b1 became a high

eh fair enough i agree d4 should be normalized, tbh i dont mind b1 not being mid. B1 being mid made kotal potato level, anyone and everyone could pick him up in a day and be decent imo. I think b1 being high with d4 being normalized with better frames on projectiles like i mentioned would be a solid balance.

I like kotal a lot because hes got mix in wg, cmd grab in sg, and bg was unique.

just had a thought what if blood god had the old patches projectile data while dmg totem was up. Would make him a polarizing pressure character who still has to spend bar to be effective and would have gaps but once he hits with ex pizza he becomes like old school guaranteed pressure

 

[Second Saint]

reo does have some good suggestions for venomous, idk what i would do with dvorahs puddle though because that move was obnoxious prepatch but brood fathers projectiles could be better than 29 frames and just slightly more combo potential for venomous would be helpful

You're right, it definitely was rough dealing with it pre patch. My suggestion of giving the ex it's old frames back wasn't thought out. A compromise might be to make the ex SQ puddle +12 lke the current regular one. She wouldn't be able to bait armor and still pressure like before. She'd only get one or the other.

I know I would definitely like a faster projectile in BM. I absolutely love the way she zones in the few matches you get to do it in. Granted, she probably shouldn't be able to combo off it meterlessly by running after it like she currently can, lol.

Reo's ideas would definitely do the job, without being broken. That throw buff is more significant than it might seem. Made a post with the math behind it in REO's buff thread, but it came out to like 30% throws from certain setups. Her strike/throws would be insane. With something like that, she wouldn't really need the extra comboability. When your throws are doing 17.5% minimum, with nowhere to go but way up, people better have their tech game on point.

 

[GAV]

Buff Kotal Kahn into Injustice 2 and nerf Sub Zero right out of it.

 

[Shaka]

Buff Shinnok!

 

[M.D.]

i never heard of the added frame on block canceling you mentioned, whats that about?

Well, the patch note is:

• Johnny Cage (A-List) - added 5 frames before a dash cancel is active if a move is charged during the opponents block stun

It translates in:

Hi, i am a grocery store designer that just got this opportunity for an interview today while selling onions in the building and i have this great balance ideea based on my eons of fighting game experience, so we should just add extra blockstun for both players when the victim is blocking, so you , the player, will never know for sure how to press the cancel because you have to read the opponent's mind if he's gonna release block or not.

HIRE THIS MAN

 

[Dogeofthesea]

I don't really understand NRS's laziness. Is it really that hard to adjust all strings' cancel advantage? They can nerf F3, 114, 12.... cancel block advantage so any SKRC off those strings is significantly less plus

 

[The_Tile]

Drunk "The_Tile" says...

-Quan Chi
-Buff Everything

-Everyone else
-Nerf Everything

Then MKX will be a fair and balanced game #BuffQuan