"I'm the 12th best Sub-Zero player in the world."
Its just better when Tom is around. Amirite?
- He has one decent forward advancing mid that's death on whiff (any part of whiffed f42 gets punished easily)What exactly does he lack? He has good advancing mids, 50/50's ( one option being unsafe), almost full screen slide, combo starting projectiles, very good jump ins, safe specials that can be cancelled into, good pokes, great back dash.
Does he need a teleport or a clone in every variation?
I guess but still it's not bad enough to be along side those guys. In the corner the Sub player needs to guess if you're gonna wakeup. Then guess whether you wakeup low or overhead (makes the corner pretty trivial a lot of the time) and B4 answers a lot of klone shenanigans in the neutral. hey you wanna play that MU sometime? You're on PS4 right?There's not a lot of Leatherfaces but most likely REO
Yeah add TreeWilly2000 I haven't played LF a lot it should be funI guess but still it's not bad enough to be along side those guys. In the corner the Sub player needs to guess if you're gonna wakeup. Then guess whether you wakeup low or overhead (makes the corner pretty trivial a lot of the time) and B4 answers a lot of klone shenanigans in the neutral. hey you wanna play that MU sometime? You're on PS4 right?
Are you serious? A ridiculous b2/ a 6frame d1/ relatively safe 50/50s/ a safe special to cancel into/ an amazing d4/ one of the best jumping in the game/ a string with stupid corner carry on block and hit 124/ a great counter poking string in b12/ a great aa in standing one. Honesty the only thing he's missing is mid screen damage. Brady is just his usual bitching self.what he says makes a lot of sense, if sub can't really use the clone, what else does he have to work with? lol
Name 10 mus where he losesHow does Sub-Zero's matchup chart compare to the characters he is supposedly as good as? He loses like 8-10 matchups, something tells me these other "top 5" and "top 10" characters don't lose that many. I'm not trying to downplay, Sub is really dumb but I'm trying to be realistic.
Sonya, Kenshi, Takeda, D'Vorah, Ermac, Tremor definitely. Dragon thinks Kitana beats Sub and he runs through any Sub he has played so maybe her. Some Sub players think Naginata Tanya and Jacqui are slight disadvantage. I can definitely agree with Tanya, Jacqui is pretty close to even. HQT, Ferra/Torr, and Kung Jin are debated too. Some say Sub now beats Mileena idk about that so I won't include her. So yeah 6 for sure and like 5 up for debate so dont act Sub ending up with 8-10 losing matchups is some redicuouls idea.Name 10 mus where he loses
Disagree w/ Quan Sorcerer. Both Quan Summoner and Sorcerer is about who gets their bullshit started first.Takeda, Ermac, Sonya, Ferra-Thor, Kenshi,D'vorah,Tremor,Jakie Briggs full auto, Predator hish qu then, Quan Chi Sorcerer, Kitana (Specially mournful).
Hey I don't play with him. I am speaking from an an opponent's point of view. Many characters do not have everything... and are competitive, but I hear you. Unbreakable especially looks very good on paper with a combo starting parry (that parries all grounded moved) and 1 Bar armored launcher, plus on block cancels... I just don't understand it but it might be because people are so used to GM.... and that makes the issues. Maybe a non GM has to start playing with him. Thanks for your reply- He has one decent forward advancing mid that's death on whiff (any part of whiffed f42 gets punished easily)
- His 50/50s are fine like everyone elses
- Full screen slide is a nice tool, but absolutely necessary
- Combo starting projectile is slow as fuck and gets punished on reaction with ease
- Very good jump in = very good crossover (the range is actually pretty shitty and can be tripguarded quite easily)
- Safe special that can always be punished if the opponent armors. This is actually pretty terrible because that safe special is pretty much the only way he makes his strings 'safe' on block.
- Pokes are fine
- Backdash is good
On its own this seems like a really really good character. Except for the fact that without the clone, he has to play a neutral game. That means you have to beat characters with half screen mids that are just as fast or faster than yours and actually have decent recovery on whiff. You also have a hard time dealing with other characters' jump attacks because s1 only works if spaced perfectly and d2 is too slow to anti air anything on reaction. F42 like I said before is death on whiff, b2 is death on block against quite a few characters, b12 is death on whiff, 123 is death on whiff, and regardless, whatever you block of sub, it's your turn. Sub has no pressure string unless he spends a bar in unbreakable (which he has trouble building).
So he has trouble competing in neutral, he can't actually pressure you up close unless he spends hard earned meter in unbreakable. Have you ever tried playing unbreakable or cryo?
Edit: I'm not saying he's BAD and the other variations do have their uses, but they're really not fleshed out characters who you can use as alternatives to GM and get great results. The fact of the matter is that Sub Zero's moveset is based around compensating for the ice clone.