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Video/Tutorial - Sub-Zero BradyCast - Tom Brady's final review of MKX Sub-Zero

Skedar70

Noob
What a disappointment. This guy never changes. Tom is an excuse maker. Sub got buffed a lot in the last patch and now that he continues to fail he goes back to his excuse and blames the character.

Sub zero has a lot of good stuff, but now Tom wants Sub zero to also have the good stuff of other characters.

I wouldn't trust what he said that Madzin and Foxy agree with his point of view because Tom tends to make these conclusions by misinterpreting whatever it is that they actually said.

I remember when he said that he went even with Slayer 10-9, the actual fight ended up in like 30-9 but he was even for the first ten fights so he "went even with Slayer".

What a crybaby.
 

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
No wonder Brady stopped posting on TYM with the amount of flak he's getting for having AN OPINION!!!
It doesn't matter if his opinion is right or wrong, just the fact that people who have never helped the scene with anything can come up and say shit,like the asshole above me, and no one of resonance in the community contests it.
This is why instead of more pros posting helpful threads on TYM, we barely have any and TYM is starting to alienate them as well.

GGS
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
What exactly does he lack? He has good advancing mids, 50/50's ( one option being unsafe), almost full screen slide, combo starting projectiles, very good jump ins, safe specials that can be cancelled into, good pokes, great back dash.

Does he need a teleport or a clone in every variation?
- He has one decent forward advancing mid that's death on whiff (any part of whiffed f42 gets punished easily)
- His 50/50s are fine like everyone elses
- Full screen slide is a nice tool, but absolutely necessary
- Combo starting projectile is slow as fuck and gets punished on reaction with ease
- Very good jump in = very good crossover (the range is actually pretty shitty and can be tripguarded quite easily)
- Safe special that can always be punished if the opponent armors. This is actually pretty terrible because that safe special is pretty much the only way he makes his strings 'safe' on block.
- Pokes are fine
- Backdash is good

On its own this seems like a really really good character. Except for the fact that without the clone, he has to play a neutral game. That means you have to beat characters with half screen mids that are just as fast or faster than yours and actually have decent recovery on whiff. You also have a hard time dealing with other characters' jump attacks because s1 only works if spaced perfectly and d2 is too slow to anti air anything on reaction. F42 like I said before is death on whiff, b2 is death on block against quite a few characters, b12 is death on whiff, 123 is death on whiff, and regardless, whatever you block of sub, it's your turn. Sub has no pressure string unless he spends a bar in unbreakable (which he has trouble building).

So he has trouble competing in neutral, he can't actually pressure you up close unless he spends hard earned meter in unbreakable. Have you ever tried playing unbreakable or cryo?

Edit: I'm not saying he's BAD and the other variations do have their uses, but they're really not fleshed out characters who you can use as alternatives to GM and get great results. The fact of the matter is that Sub Zero's moveset is based around compensating for the ice clone.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
What Leatherface is he playing that he mentioned him along side Jax and Kotal as far as Matchups go. It's kind of bad but it's not THAT bad jeez.
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Moderator
There's not a lot of Leatherfaces but most likely REO
I guess but still it's not bad enough to be along side those guys. In the corner the Sub player needs to guess if you're gonna wakeup. Then guess whether you wakeup low or overhead (makes the corner pretty trivial a lot of the time) and B4 answers a lot of klone shenanigans in the neutral. hey you wanna play that MU sometime? You're on PS4 right?
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I guess but still it's not bad enough to be along side those guys. In the corner the Sub player needs to guess if you're gonna wakeup. Then guess whether you wakeup low or overhead (makes the corner pretty trivial a lot of the time) and B4 answers a lot of klone shenanigans in the neutral. hey you wanna play that MU sometime? You're on PS4 right?
Yeah add TreeWilly2000 I haven't played LF a lot it should be fun
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
what he says makes a lot of sense, if sub can't really use the clone, what else does he have to work with? lol
Are you serious? A ridiculous b2/ a 6frame d1/ relatively safe 50/50s/ a safe special to cancel into/ an amazing d4/ one of the best jumping in the game/ a string with stupid corner carry on block and hit 124/ a great counter poking string in b12/ a great aa in standing one. Honesty the only thing he's missing is mid screen damage. Brady is just his usual bitching self.
To say no one takes sub to top 8 using solely that character doesn't mean anything. Literally nobody besides cowboy and toxin uses one character to get to top eight and even then cowboy used two variations which are completely different from each other
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
How does Sub-Zero's matchup chart compare to the characters he is supposedly as good as? He loses like 8-10 matchups, something tells me these other "top 5" and "top 10" characters don't lose that many. I'm not trying to downplay, Sub is really dumb but I'm trying to be realistic.
Name 10 mus where he loses
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Name 10 mus where he loses
Sonya, Kenshi, Takeda, D'Vorah, Ermac, Tremor definitely. Dragon thinks Kitana beats Sub and he runs through any Sub he has played so maybe her. Some Sub players think Naginata Tanya and Jacqui are slight disadvantage. I can definitely agree with Tanya, Jacqui is pretty close to even. HQT, Ferra/Torr, and Kung Jin are debated too. Some say Sub now beats Mileena idk about that so I won't include her. So yeah 6 for sure and like 5 up for debate so dont act Sub ending up with 8-10 losing matchups is some redicuouls idea.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Takeda, Ermac, Sonya, Ferra-Thor, Kenshi,D'vorah,Tremor,Jakie Briggs full auto, Predator hish qu then, Quan Chi Sorcerer, Kitana (Specially mournful).
Disagree w/ Quan Sorcerer. Both Quan Summoner and Sorcerer is about who gets their bullshit started first.
 
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Rolling_Toaster

Praise be to Lord Brady
imo sub loses to kenshi possessed balanced, sonya demo, takeda shirai ryu lasher, tanya dragon naginata, brc bartitsu, ermac mystic, ferra ruthless vicious, dvorah brood mother and tremor crystalline and maybe aftershock.

i agree with tom tho. sub is a very good pocket character.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
lol at anyone defending tom brady.. Do you realize he just said he's worse than mk9 sub zero??? WORSE THAN MK9 SUBZERO?!!

Mk9 sub zero was without a doubt considered bottom ten if not bottom 5. I honestly can't believe this got front paged.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Royal Contributor
honestly the only character i see him losing to 100% is demolition and takeda lasher. Everyone else is iffy
 

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
some of these posts are starting to melt my brain... can someone lock this crap before we get all the butthurt people out there come in and invent more frame data for sub, 6 frame d1??? Next we'll have the scrubs tell us that sub has kabal like pressure.
 

Parasurama

Dragon
- He has one decent forward advancing mid that's death on whiff (any part of whiffed f42 gets punished easily)
- His 50/50s are fine like everyone elses
- Full screen slide is a nice tool, but absolutely necessary
- Combo starting projectile is slow as fuck and gets punished on reaction with ease
- Very good jump in = very good crossover (the range is actually pretty shitty and can be tripguarded quite easily)
- Safe special that can always be punished if the opponent armors. This is actually pretty terrible because that safe special is pretty much the only way he makes his strings 'safe' on block.
- Pokes are fine
- Backdash is good

On its own this seems like a really really good character. Except for the fact that without the clone, he has to play a neutral game. That means you have to beat characters with half screen mids that are just as fast or faster than yours and actually have decent recovery on whiff. You also have a hard time dealing with other characters' jump attacks because s1 only works if spaced perfectly and d2 is too slow to anti air anything on reaction. F42 like I said before is death on whiff, b2 is death on block against quite a few characters, b12 is death on whiff, 123 is death on whiff, and regardless, whatever you block of sub, it's your turn. Sub has no pressure string unless he spends a bar in unbreakable (which he has trouble building).

So he has trouble competing in neutral, he can't actually pressure you up close unless he spends hard earned meter in unbreakable. Have you ever tried playing unbreakable or cryo?

Edit: I'm not saying he's BAD and the other variations do have their uses, but they're really not fleshed out characters who you can use as alternatives to GM and get great results. The fact of the matter is that Sub Zero's moveset is based around compensating for the ice clone.
Hey I don't play with him. I am speaking from an an opponent's point of view. Many characters do not have everything... and are competitive, but I hear you. Unbreakable especially looks very good on paper with a combo starting parry (that parries all grounded moved) and 1 Bar armored launcher, plus on block cancels... I just don't understand it but it might be because people are so used to GM.... and that makes the issues. Maybe a non GM has to start playing with him. Thanks for your reply