SALTY Bradycast - The Alien Outcry & Various Game Balance Thoughts

[Dankster Morgan]

I'm just saying what people say in general. I actually don't care about puddle. If Ovi gets a hurtbox, give everything a hurtbox. If puddle gets changed I want an armored launcher like the rest of the cast.

I understand your frustration with everyone going after your character.

 

[Son ov Timett]

Can't forget the tracking. There have been times where I read the puddle, went to jip only for it to appear in front of her.

Fml.

I believe it tracks if you react too early. Wait a couple frames in her animation then jip.

 

[Rude]

The people I play on a daily basis never let me get away with puddle midscreen, same way I never let a D'Vorah get away with it either in the mirror. Never said it didn't compliment her pressure, I'm saying people upplay it as some godly special move. Actually the only oki puddle you have to block is b21.

As a special move it:

Grants a 50/50 or pressure on block

Launches for a full combo without meter

Can launch an opponent even if she's hit

Has tracking properties

Negates a lot of zoning, even if she's hit she typically has enough time to run in and finish a combo

Creates oki situations in the corner that grand more pressure.


Exactly how many things should one special move be allowed to do before we start saying that "maybe" it's actually very good?

What else does it need to do before we can admit it's not this abysmal, seldom used thing D'Vorah mains make it out to be?

 

[TopTierHarley]

I understand your frustration with everyone going after your character.

It's fine lol, it happens. People target Mika as well.

 

[hayatei]

Eh, Debbie is broke is broke. Top 5. Puddle is too good. Nerf SQ damage, she should only be doing 25% for a bar and cancel.

stop downplaying

 

[TopTierHarley]

As a special move it:

Grants a 50/50 or pressure on block

Launches for a full combo without meter

Can launch an opponent even if she's hit

Has tracking properties

Negates a lot of zoning, even if she's hit she typically has enough time to run in and finish a combo

Creates oki situations in the corner that grand more pressure.


Exactly how many things should one special move be allowed to do before we start saying that "maybe" it's actually very good?

What else does it need to do before we can admit it's not this abysmal, seldom used thing D'Vorah mains make it out to be?

If you block a 47f move then I deserve the pressure

Cause nothing else launches except 212, which has a gap and is minus double digits on block

Tracking is fine, it's a homing projectile

It's an anti zoning tool and won't trade in her favor most of the time cause it's so slow, the launch is a reward

Same as every character in the game

I'm not saying puddle is abysmal, I seldom use it cause I get punished for trying everytime I do. Even in the corner sometimes, unless I do b21.

Doesn't matter anymore anyway. I'm an Overwatch player now.

 

[TopTierHarley]

stop downplaying

I only downplay BM and Venomous. They are broke.

 

[Tony at Home]

Thoughts on the demo suggestion: Grenades going away on hit is interesting, but would probably be going overboard.

Sonya can use grenade cancels as a gapless block string only if she detonates early enough that she is left around -8 or so.

If she wants to be + or at least -2/-3 so she has a counterpoke opportunity vs strings, she needs to detonate late enough to leave a gap.

Sounds like a reasonable enough metagame, but the armor option selects means this metagame doesn't even take place. Opponent just mashes armor appropriately and their character will block without a gap and hit if there is one.

 

[Rude]

If you block a 47f move then I deserve the pressure

Cause nothing else launches except 212, which has a gap and is minus double digits on block

Tracking is fine, it's a homing projectile

It's an anti zoning tool and won't trade in her favor most of the time cause it's so slow, the launch is a reward

Same as every character in the game

I'm not saying puddle is abysmal, I seldom use it cause I get punished for trying everytime I do. Even in the corner sometimes, unless I do b21.

Doesn't matter anymore anyway. I'm an Overwatch player now.

A 47 frame move with barely any recovery. Which means even if you do react to it with say, a poke, you get launched. React and try to jump out? Get uppercut.

It trades favorably with other projectiles very consistently.

I'd be on board with the argument that she has limited launching options if she didn't have a safe 50/50 that leads to full combos on hit. I'm not buying your bill, sir.

What you're not understanding is that what makes the puddle great is it's utility and all of its pros combined, not just one or two aspects of it. Meterless launching, heavy plus frames, counterzoning, pressure extension, fast recovery, and oki properties all in one move.

In. One. Move. If it DIDN'T have a slower start up, it would be busted.

 

[TopTierHarley]

A 47 frame move with barely any recovery. Which means even if you do react to it with say, a poke, you get launched. React and try to jump out? Get uppercut.

It trades favorably with other projectiles very consistently.

I'd be on board with the argument that she has limited launching options if she didn't have a safe 50/50 that leads to full combos on hit. I'm not buying your bill, sir.

What you're not understanding is that what makes the puddle great is it's utility and all of its pros combined, not just one or two aspects of it. Meterless launching, heavy plus frames, counterzoning, pressure extension, fast recovery, and oki properties all in one move.

In. One. Move. If it DIDN'T have a slower start up, it would be busted.

It only full combos on hit cause of 212. The recovery still isn't 0 though. It's a meta that only exist cause of early stages of the game. It's only good for the corner. Also you shouldn't react with a poke. Armor or use a forward advancing normal or special. ie Jax F2, or Sub slide.

 

[Alright RyRy]

Alien is broken. There is no way Johnny's ex kick goes through any character regardless of hurtbox.

That actually happens alot.

 

[Alright RyRy]

People still complain about Goro players doing PW into EX PW. I and a few other players have made videos on how to get around that and be completely safe. People don't watch just complain.

I agree with pretty much everything Brady said in that video, a few things I disagree with but whatever, the point is that some of these moves in this are braindead, when the character already has other FANTASTIC tools and they don't need them to be good.

People complained about Shinnoks F41d2xHS pressure, but yet A-List - Dragons Fire can do the same thing but better and its okay? Oh yeah, and they are meterless with more options than just chip damage.

The characters that piss me off the most are Johnny, Alien and Takeda.

Johnny - (Mainly A-List)

• Free pressure everytime he touches you, its a guessing game from there.
• Better zoning options than half of the cast.
• D4 low profiles mids.
• Special Cancel-able Whiffed Normal is the dumbest thing in this game.

Takeda- (Mainly Ronin)

• Meter-less frame-traps (Granted has to have the blade, no legit wake ups without blade)
• 50/50s,OH, LOW string with no gap (should be like Sonyas' B14)
• Projectile that absorbs projectiles
• Tornado Kick having NO WHIFF RECOVERY AND SAFE ON BLOCK (Rest in Piece Reptile)

Alien- (All)

• Everything brady said is perfect.

Meanwhile, the character I love playing the most (Goro) has a few problems that most of the cast doesn't.

• All viable mids can get low profiled by alot of the cast with low pokes or certain specials.
• Advancing mids that is a true punish (due to Range of B1 or Start up on F3) (PW is best option)
• May be the worst Projectile in the game, slow startup and hits high.
• After a CG combo ender midscreen Goro has NO OKI (Against certain characters) CG should be a hard knockdown.

JUST TO BE CLEAR I AM NOT COMPLAINING OR DOWNPLAYING GORO or SAYING GORO NEEDS BUFFS.

Goro has very good options when he gets in, I am very aware of this. All I am stating is that Goro does NOT play MKX the characters that play MKX the best IMO right now are

• Ermac
• Mileena
• Alien
• Kano
• Shinnok
• Takeda

 

[Baconlord]

there is a special place in hell for people like you

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

People still complain about Goro players doing PW into EX PW. I and a few other players have made videos on how to get around that and be completely safe. People don't watch just complain.

I agree with pretty much everything Brady said in that video, a few things I disagree with but whatever, the point is that some of these moves in this are braindead, when the character already has other FANTASTIC tools and they don't need them to be good.

People complained about Shinnoks F41d2xHS pressure, but yet A-List - Dragons Fire can do the same thing but better and its okay? Oh yeah, and they are meterless with more options than just chip damage.

The characters that piss me off the most are Johnny, Alien and Takeda.

Johnny - (Mainly A-List)

• Free pressure everytime he touches you, its a guessing game from there.
• Better zoning options than half of the cast.
• D4 low profiles mids.
• Special Cancel-able Whiffed Normal is the dumbest thing in this game.

Takeda- (Mainly Ronin)

• Meter-less frame-traps (Granted has to have the blade, no legit wake ups without blade)
• 50/50s,OH, LOW string with no gap (should be like Sonyas' B14)
• Projectile that absorbs projectiles
• Tornado Kick having NO WHIFF RECOVERY AND SAFE ON BLOCK (Rest in Piece Reptile)

Alien- (All)

• Everything brady said is perfect.

Meanwhile, the character I love playing the most (Goro) has a few problems that most of the cast doesn't.

• All viable mids can get low profiled by alot of the cast with low pokes or certain specials.
• Advancing mids that is a true punish (due to Range of B1 or Start up on F3) (PW is best option)
• May be the worst Projectile in the game, slow startup and hits high.
• After a CG combo ender midscreen Goro has NO OKI (Against certain characters) CG should be a hard knockdown.

JUST TO BE CLEAR I AM NOT COMPLAINING OR DOWNPLAYING GORO or SAYING GORO NEEDS BUFFS.

Goro has very good options when he gets in, I am very aware of this. All I am stating is that Goro does NOT play MKX the characters that play MKX the best IMO right now are

• Ermac
• Mileena
• Alien
• Kano
• Shinnok
• Takeda

I m not gonna lie and say that Takeda isn't better than goro but most of your complaints about him don't seem fair.
-The only frame meterless frame traps that ronin has is when he calls back the blade everything else is a gimmick
-Ronin to my knowledge doesn't have 50/50s his main mixups consist of d3 and b21 b3 is reactable
-Takeda b21 is nothing like sonya b14 it doesn't need a gap because it doesn't lead to a 50/50, sonya s string do in almost all her variation
-The spin kick is fine IMO when I whiff it I lose my turn or get punished it having more recovery would change nothing for me or pretty much any Takeda.

 

[EdenianWarrior]

The puddle is a huge footsie assist. It needs more recovery on whiff and absolutely needs to go away when D'vorah gets hit

Honeybee is gonna have a bitch fit if that happens lmaoooo. But it definitely needs to go away on hit.

 

[Tom Brady]

Dvorah players definitely use puddle as a footsie assist. If the Dvorah player ever finds themselves getting out spaced/out footsied they actually zone with puddle. If you react to the puddle from the range you need to be at to out footsie Dvorah, she recovers before you get to her. You have to read it aka guess and run at her in advance. Its like "hey, stop these footsies and run at me so i can f11 you otherwise ill zone with +22 puddles on block that also win every trade on hit".

 

[Alright RyRy]

I m not gonna lie and say that Takeda isn't better than goro but most of your complaints about him don't seem fair.
-The only frame meterless frame traps that ronin has is when he calls back the blade everything else is a gimmick
-Ronin to my knowledge doesn't have 50/50s his main mixups consist of d3 and b21 b3 is reactable
-Takeda b21 is nothing like sonya b14 it doesn't need a gap because it doesn't lead to a 50/50, sonya s string do in almost all her variation
-The spin kick is fine IMO when I whiff it I lose my turn or get punished it having more recovery would change nothing for me or pretty much any Takeda.

What is the startup on the B3 and the B2.

Also I guess Takedas B21 doesnt lead to another 50/50 is correct, while it does lead to around 40% with a bar correct? While Covert Ops gets around 30, and if you block the next 50/50 is super punishable.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Lol Cancer Ops doesn't have to commit to the next 50/50, she can cancel out of MS and make B14 safe.

 

[aieches]

What is the startup on the B3 and the B2.

Also I guess Takedas B21 doesnt lead to another 50/50 is correct, while it does lead to around 40% with a bar correct? While Covert Ops gets around 30, and if you block the next 50/50 is super punishable.

b3 is like 21 frames...b2 is 15 now. Lasher and SR have a better 50/50 game than ronin tbh

also - just curious ? why should regular tornado kick be unsafe? outside of SR its his only way to close a large gap. and doesnt launch . yes it causes a hard knock down so thats good, but all (even ex) tornado kick range from 25-37 frames start up ex launches on hit, but is -16 on block . also it doesnt track .

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I'm pretty sure someone has jerked off to this by now...

 

[Alright RyRy]

b3 is like 21 frames...b2 is 15 now. Lasher and SR have a better 50/50 game than ronin tbh

also - just curious ? why should regular tornado kick be unsafe? outside of SR its his only way to close a large gap. and doesnt launch . yes it causes a hard knock down so thats good, but all (even ex) tornado kick range from 25-37 frames start up ex launches on hit but is -16 on block . also it doesnt track .

I am perfectly fine with it being safe on block, I have no problem with that. its the whiffing part that I do not understand.

Lol Cancer Ops doesn't have to commit to the next 50/50, she can cancel out of MS and make B14 safe.

Yes, I understand that, but the gap still exists. Now at a certain range there is no gap.

 

[aieches]

I am perfectly fine with it being safe on block, I have no problem with that. its the whiffing part that I do not understand.



Yes, I understand that, but the gap still exists. Now at a certain range there is no gap.

ahhh my bad - i miss read..
but i do get punished -- but also, tornado kick can be a good evasive tool also... like sometimes ill use it to land where i know ( or hope) ill recover in time.

 

[B. Shazzy]

It's fine lol, it happens. People target Mika as well.

lol you don't even play mika you poser, otherwise you woud know exactly why she's targeted.


get out of here already

 

[Wigy]

I've played good people who whiff punish ball with nip. Really adds a meta to it, not sure if enough people try this.

its hella slow startup so making it unsafe is silly, if you're guna nerf it make it not a HKD

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

I am perfectly fine with it being safe on block, I have no problem with that. its the whiffing part that I do not understand.



Yes, I understand that, but the gap still exists. Now at a certain range there is no gap.

B212+4 doesn't need a gap because it s different from b14 it doesn't lead to any mixup(covert ops sonya get 50/50 from it,special forces sonya get 50/50 from it Idk about demolition but I will guess that it does) on block b21 blade drop is unsafe I see no reason to add a gap to ronin
Again the ball on whiff is no big deal for me as long as you don't touch the ex one