Born On a Monday -- Solomon Grundy General Discussion/QA/Combo Thread

[nAuseA87]

Actually no I do understand better than you and probably anybody here. The match is 5-5 based on high level grundy and high level deathstroke play. The statement that it takes a skilled grundy for you to see the balance in the match applies because often at even lower skill levels you'll find the match up numbers play out pretty accurately. If you have an average grundy vs an average DS you run into a lopsided looking match. As illustrated by posts in this thread not all grundy's have a concept of how the fight is supposed to work. I am a very good grundy and I typically split against high skill deathstrokes. Grundy needs to land a defense trait which isn't terrible difficult to do. Deathstroke can't do guns when grundy is in walking corpse range or risk getting opened up and grundy has a strong wake up game and can punish deathstroke if he blocks sword flip or baits sword spin. Both sides have to make reads to win but grundy does significantly more damage and takes away deathstrokes options if he makes one read.

Pig recently made a similiar comment to me regarding a zod matchup. He said it was 5-5 but the zod had to be very good before the 5-5 became apparent. You have two pro's/former pro's using the exact same terminology and analogy maybe its you who doesn't understand. It's rather condescending to explain to me how match up charts work when I was placing top 8 at major tournaments and writing strategy guides before you had a concept of how high level fighting games worked.

I don't automatically agree with people, just because they're "pro" and placed top 8 at major tournaments. I respectfully agree to disagree.

 

[M.D.]

This tier stuff is highly volatile you know...

It's like saying Yoshi is 10-0 to at least half the cast in soul calibur because of his just-frame heals after unblockables and from stances, and considering the player does it perfectly each time and guard impacts everything you do, you can't win. This falls into the category of "because people have started doing things that people said you couldn't do consistently."

Or to bring it on a more local area, the Cyborg matchup charts before his iaNB nerf contained stuff like 8-2 or 9-1 in them although for that to happen the Cyborg player had to do iaNB perfectly.

You two fighting over the 5-5 4-6 stuff seems weird since that number has so many conditions in it it hardly seems relevant.

I think the tier numbers should be obtained from comparing the tools of the characters excluding the difficulty of using them or of making reads to use them.

The fact that DS can use his tools easier than Grundy shouldn't affect the matchup numbers, because in this case they will change for every different players that play them.


Now that I've spent my 2c, I'd like to admit on topic that I'd enjoy for Grundy a change of input for his WC cancel. At least make it dd or memorize the side during the active frames of the move so I can do db after the opponent crosses me up and still get the cancel.

 

[fr stack]

1truking has it right about the ds match and i dont even chip trait, i use health trait then WCC through every gunshot, i can block the second i cancel so i WCC eat about 4% from bullets then build nearly a bar for my 60% reset , alls i have to do is make 1 good read when im in WCC range and your done son

 

[ando1184]

What do you guys think about allowing his trait throw in the air as an air to air option. I'm not saying give him the entire trait, just the initial first part of it. The part where he's holding them by the legs and slams them down for about 11% or so. I think this might help him by allowing him to prevent characters from jumping even more and giving him a viable air to air option. Let it have an armored MB version also, I think this should be an easy addition since his super already has the grab animation in the air and it would be the same animation as trait. Maybe make it a hard knockdown, but that might be pushing it. Thoughts???

 

[Mikemetroid]

What do you guys think about allowing his trait throw in the air as an air to air option. I'm not saying give him the entire trait, just the initial first part of it. The part where he's holding them by the legs and slams them down for about 11% or so. I think this might help him by allowing him to prevent characters from jumping even more and giving him a viable air to air option. Let it have an armored MB version also, I think this should be an easy addition since his super already has the grab animation in the air and it would be the same animation as trait. Maybe make it a hard knockdown, but that might be pushing it. Thoughts???

While I think this is possible (because of his super) I don't think it would be as reliable as D2/AA grab.

 

[ando1184]

While I think this is possible (because of his super) I don't think it would be as reliable as D2/AA grab.

I was just thinking in terms of giving him something without making him busted in a way. I also was thinking of this as a tool for Grundy jumping at the opponent since a lot of times characters can just jump away from him. This would help the cat n mouse game he sometimes has to play in certain matchups.

 

[Mikemetroid]

I was just thinking in terms of giving him something without making him busted in a way. I also was thinking of this as a tool for Grundy jumping at the opponent since a lot of times characters can just jump away from him. This would help the cat n mouse game he sometimes has to play in certain matchups.

He is a huge zombie, a floaty jump is acceptable. This is why his dashing game is phenomenal.

 

[ando1184]

He is a huge zombie, a floaty jump is acceptable. This is why his dashing game is phenomenal.

Well, I just think this gives him an option to jump because his jump now seems like a game of duck hunt. The opponent sees a Grundy jump, they shoot lol. Also, this just gives him 1 more tool to use. Think about it, I jump as Grundy and right before I land I do MB trait throw to bait a response from opponent. It whiffs but gives him a hit of armor and if the opponent attacks I recover standing and either 11 etc, MB Trait, MB Swamp hands, MB cleaver, or d2 and go into a combo. Its just more tech he would have, it's never a bad thing to have more options.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

What if you could MB each part of the trait grab (all 3 points) to do more damage and make it unclashable

hah funny.

 

[Mikemetroid]

What if you could MB each part of the trait grab (all 3 points) to do more damage and make it unclashable

hah funny.

Hawkgirl would still be a bad MU

 

[ando1184]

Hawkgirl would still be a bad MU

I think my suggestions will help in that MU

 

[Mikemetroid]

I think my suggestions will help in that MU

You're suggestion just makes him OP

 

[ando1184]

You're suggestion just makes him OP

Please explain how?

 

[Mannee]

Guys im having a really hard time canceling 112 into swamp hands, i get it like 60% of the time or less, any tips for what would that be? Just spent like 40 min on the lab and nothing

(wierd thing is yesrday i was getting basically 100% idk what happened)

 

[fr stack]

Guys im having a really hard time canceling 112 into swamp hands, i get it like 60% of the time or less, any tips for what would that be? Just spent like 40 min on the lab and nothing

(wierd thing is yesrday i was getting basically 100% idk what happened)

turn your release check off , in the controller options ?? are u on alternate controls ?

 

[Mannee]

turn your release check off , in the controller options ?? are u on alternate controls ?

lol im such a retard, release check was on, thx man, i could've gonna days wothout noticing it.

 

[fr stack]

lol im such a retard, release check was on, thx man, i could've gonna days wothout noticing it.

no problem bud

 

[Qwark28]

@

To expand on what was just posted. health chain reduces all damage taken by 20%. So as mentioned if you land it before taking any damage you've essentially gained 20% health on each life bar.

Power chain is the goto chain of the bad grundys you run into online. It add's 15% damage IIRC and who cares. Almost any touch with meter leads to 50-59%. meterless you can often do close to 40%. You need 4/5 touches to kill with grundy and power chain doesn't change that. You'll still need 4/5 touches to kill.

Defense chain reduces all chip damage to 10%. Thats not 10% less its 10% of the original total. So if you would've taken 1% in chip you now take .1%. It's still useful in matches where you potentially eat a lot of chip getting in even without the life lead. You can use it against deathstroke for example and move in at a more patient pace and eventually corner him. I remember hearing that it reduces all light attacks to no chip so batmans trait does no chip with it on. Haven't tested that out though.

BSo the health chain does the most damage at 31% raw and it reduces damage you take by 20%. Its the go to trait in almost all matches.

Hidan

 

[Hidan]

@
Hidan

1% chip becomes 0.10, everything is being reduced by 90%, it's the best chain to do, but you must be careful of time ups as every guard chain consumes 5 game secs (in a beautiful sadistic fashion). Also you have to make sure you know how to block your opponent, if you get hit by random superman crossups, play health chain

 

[Mannee]

im doing terrible with grundy in matches, my record is like 10w-50l, if an experiencied player would play some matches with me and me me pointers that would be much appreciated
PSN soupmanne

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

We literally have 3 people who swear by the 3 different chains

Love it.

 

[juicepouch]

I think Grundy is probably one of the most well done* characters in the game, so I'm not expecting much at all in terms of buffs or nerfs.

However, if I could ask for one thing, it'd be that the poem that Grundy does on the damage chain be completely randomized so that he shouts it no matter what Chain you choose to follow


*well done in the sense that he has his strengths and weaknesses and only really is a part of a horrible matchup when it's one of the top (who are likely getting normalized) against him.

 

[MetalPete]

How about his walking corpse and bf2 grab connect after a successful 1,1,2? I would like a little variation in my starters besides swamp hands. Speaking of swamp hands; they should appear a little faster. Maybe even reduce how long it takes Grundy to lift his foot and stomp on the ground. I also like the idea of giving him a few more hits of armor when using mb swamp hands.

The above, a better back-dash, and the power chain combines are all I could ever ask for.

 

[fluxxshredder]

Gotta really disagree with stacking of traits at level 1 especially. If you can only have one level two or two level one it becomes pointless. The bonus you get at level one is pretty poor. Again the only fights that it really helps in are superman, deathstroke, sinestro and maybe a minor help with green lantern hawkgirl and black adam. It would be interesting to stack two level 2's but most of the time its not worth the damage loss.

Also never understood the talk about positioning. The health chain pushes farther but you also recover faster than the others so you're left relatively even. You get a dash in before they get up putting you in a similiar position as the other traits.

U say these things....but smart players can react with wake ups....catching u dashing in. While it's much safer for a grundy player to be on top of them on wake up. U can bait the wake up and punish.....or.....go for the clever or b13 into combo....wcc or wc mb (if u know the opponents wake up properties then u know what will beat what....and what u will loose to hit for hit) I also like mixing up how i end combo's and do something simple like b13, air grab. Get back on top of them and make them guess again. As far as the buff's.....and the x1 stacking.....what if it was u could have 1 of each totally 3 x1 buffs. Either way though it helps in his bad match ups and not making his good match ups ridiculous....which i think should be the focus point of any buffs. As much as we would like to have the x2's stacked it would be super powerful....think about this, the power buff works for everything but the next trait. If u could stack traits....wouldn't it work for the trait then. Then we would be doing 60% + on average after any landed power trait. Now add that to the reset with the mb grave rot......and we're talking a bit much don't ya think? I think that would just make him op......cause 20% health then .1 chip? that's too much if u ask me....kinda takes the thought out of him.

 

[fr stack]

How about his walking corpse and bf2 grab connect after a successful 1,1,2? I would like a little variation in my starters besides swamp hands. Speaking of swamp hands; they should appear a little faster. Maybe even reduce how long it takes Grundy to lift his foot and stomp on the ground. I also like the idea of giving him a few more hits of armor when using mb swamp hands.

The above, a better back-dash, and the power chain combines are all I could ever ask for.

11 WC hits on block or hit , it can be jumped but u have to be expecting it and everyone expects 112 MBwhatever so they can b3 or jump
also 112 WCC d2 4 ...... 112 WCC d13 <these dont combo but in the middle of a fight are hard to react to
112 WCC MBf3