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Question - Kung Jin Bojutsu vs. Shaolin: which is the better variation for high level play (and why?)

Trustypatches

PSN: Boweeen, Twitch: rBoweeen
Its important to note that in Bojutsu, pre-patch bo swat was safe on block if I remember correctly
Is that really the case? If so then my memory of early mkx is foggy lol. It doesn't jail from anything other than s4 but I guess that still does change what I said about Boj at release.
 

Hor_PeT

Kombatant
Let me break it down for you.

Safety
Shaolin - end any combo with up kick, drop and its safe
Bojutsu - you have to hit confirm your specials because none of them are safe

Damage
Shaolin - does mid-20s meterless, low tp mid-30s with one meter
Bojutsu - low 30s meterless, high 30s to low 40s metered

Zoning
Shaolin - has universal straight and up arrow along with a low projectile in low chakram and a mid projectile in straight chakram that you can control in mid air
Bojutsu - has universal straight and up arrows along with a pretty pointless fireball that only covers the air


The ONLY aspect that Bojutsu is better at than Shaolin is damage and that doesn't even matter. You have safe strings that do around 6% chip in Shaolin.

Absolutely Shaolin 100% of the time.

I keep learning and playing Shaolin and did not regret it.
But I experience the whiffing up kick against certain characters (after b12, or even a closer f24) as it was posted in other thread. I was punished many times and "that safety" is quite annoying. I cant call it safety as I am always punished by a player who knows it and play it.
Do you have any work-around against it? I dont want to skip playing half of the cast due to that. But against good players it is just sux (even if they dont know how to punish it I am at disadvantage when I whiff it - whiffing also an inputted shaolin drop is worse).

What do you think?
 
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TackyHaddock

Salty Mashers Krew
I think something that is often forgotten is how much better b12 is in shaolin than b14. It makes his low so reliable as a neutral tool. No whiffing on block or hit is seriously good.
Agreed. I get so much mileage out of backdash into b12 against a forward advancing or forward jumping opponent, such an amazing whiff punisher.

I also find that crossover j1 into b12 is an incredibly strong option. It can be armored after the j1 I believe, but it nonetheless has an very high success rate
 

Trustypatches

PSN: Boweeen, Twitch: rBoweeen
Agreed. I get so much mileage out of backdash into b12 against a forward advancing or forward jumping opponent, such an amazing whiff punisher.

I also find that crossover j1 into b12 is an incredibly strong option. It can be armored after the j1 I believe, but it nonetheless has an very high success rate
Actually b1 after a j1 fully jails, regardless of what height the j1 is done! As long as you get the b1 out as soon as the jump1 connects. It's a really solid option, for safe guaranteed chip as well as it being a low.
 

Parasurama

Dragon
I don't see hitconfirming every move as a minus for the character. The fact that you can visually see something has been blocked and not commit to the unsafe special is a + in my view. It just means you can't autopilot. He still has a 9 frame double hitting ex flykick which isn't that rewarding on hit but still better than nothing. Ex db3 is still 14 frames so even though it can be broken I wouldn't say it is that bad as they have to go out of their way to try and crush it. Not like Predators standard armor which will be broken without even trying. I also don't think all his stuff sucks on whiff. At the end of the day, variationless Jin has 11 with 4 frames of whiff recovery, a disjointed hurtbox and great range. That string is imo arguably one of the best neutral game strings there is. I don't play Boj anymore but I still see it as good.

But yes straight arrow is utterly trash lmao.

I also forgot to mention that the options after a blocked f24 are actually really good: Stop at f24 to be -8, with a very hard punish in MOST MU's, go into f243 and jail a safe ex cartwheel OH which goes into HKD or go for an unsafe low (ex low which launches in the corner for 32% (or more?)) and both of these come out on the same frame and are 16 frames so it's a true 50/50. For MU's where the ex straight arrow is NOT low profiled, you can still go for these and end at +7. Nothing is guaranteed at +7 but it's a hell of a lot better than being punishable.

Basically you can make them guess a true mixup after they have already blocked right once on the initial OH lol. If you go for ex OH then they can't even punish after blocking right twice.
I agree with everything here. I think that for some matches Bojutsu is better usually for characters where you don't get zoned and characters with gaps. It is nice playing with it and having meter all the time. But overall Shaolin is probably better but it is closer than most people say.
 

TackyHaddock

Salty Mashers Krew
Actually b1 after a j1 fully jails, regardless of what height the j1 is done! As long as you get the b1 out as soon as the jump1 connects. It's a really solid option, for safe guaranteed chip as well as it being a low.
Ok, I might have been just recalling the times that I got armored after ji2, not ji1
 

stamatis

Όσα δε φτάνει η αλεπού. ........
I don't see hitconfirming every move as a minus for the character. The fact that you can visually see something has been blocked and not commit to the unsafe special is a + in my view. It just means you can't autopilot. He still has a 9 frame double hitting ex flykick which isn't that rewarding on hit but still better than nothing. Ex db3 is still 14 frames so even though it can be broken I wouldn't say it is that bad as they have to go out of their way to try and crush it. Not like Predators standard armor which will be broken without even trying. I also don't think all his stuff sucks on whiff. At the end of the day, variationless Jin has 11 with 4 frames of whiff recovery, a disjointed hurtbox and great range. That string is imo arguably one of the best neutral game strings there is. I don't play Boj anymore but I still see it as good.

But yes straight arrow is utterly trash lmao.

I also forgot to mention that the options after a blocked f24 are actually really good: Stop at f24 to be -8, with a very hard punish in MOST MU's, go into f243 and jail a safe ex cartwheel OH which goes into HKD or go for an unsafe low (ex low which launches in the corner for 32% (or more?)) and both of these come out on the same frame and are 16 frames so it's a true 50/50. For MU's where the ex straight arrow is NOT low profiled, you can still go for these and end at +7. Nothing is guaranteed at +7 but it's a hell of a lot better than being punishable.

Basically you can make them guess a true mixup after they have already blocked right once on the initial OH lol. If you go for ex OH then they can't even punish after blocking right twice.
The ex arrow jails only after 111 :(.
 

Trustypatches

PSN: Boweeen, Twitch: rBoweeen
The ex arrow jails only after 111 :(.
Oh, well surely the fact that the arrows hit twice will break pretty much every armor right? D4xx ex straight arrows doesn't jail but it will stuff a Tempest reversal ex spin because of the double hit.

I also remember no-one being able to backdash and avoid both ex arrows between D4xx ex straight arrows when I tested it.
 
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SwegZero

GO NINJA GO NINJA GO
I know this was answered, but Shaolin is life. Safe or hard to punish 50/50s, can play many mind games and to top it all, an awesome brutality. It's very satisfying to get it online.
 

D7X

EMPEROR | D7X
I know this was answered, but Shaolin is life. Safe or hard to punish 50/50s, can play many mind games and to top it all, an awesome brutality. It's very satisfying to get it online.
I love him. He was my favorite beginner character. I still play him a bit, but main A-List, SD, Fisticuffs now.
 

omooba

fear the moobs
personally think it's match up specific.
bongjutsu against ermac, tarkatan etc
shaolin against kotal and pretty much everone you don't need armor or dmg on
 

omooba

fear the moobs
interesting question.....
Well listen,i play bojutsu since the reasonable nerfs he received.
This variation is not good.Why?
you must hit confirm every move you do.
half of the cast can break his armoured launcher.
once you perform his overhead string you are - all the way.
he has the worst projectile in the game.
his ex arrows can be crouched block,so no safety at all.
his strings on whiff suck.
i feel really comfortable with this variation and i accept his weaknesses,but this is just me.
I think shaolin will make your life easier.
having to hitconfirm isn't a bad thing if you have the reactions for it
his armor is waaaay better than you're making it sound
 

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
In a game where being safe after everything you do is essential to be top tier Bojutsu doesn't quite cut it.

Armor launcher is nice but punishable on block. Shaolin has relatively safe 50/50s and decent zoning with decent defense and ok pokes. Only thing he is really missing is the armor launcher and more damage but he can do without.