Blue Beetle General Discussion Thread

[pfiidud3]

@TurboTaco here you go, idk how much good it'll do =) I'm not super good

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC784QHBqdlumZDno1N7kLwA/videos

wait, does trait really increase the range on df1? I just assumed he did that with trait active looking arms, regardless of stance, the same way
.

 

[TurboTaco]

This is why BB is sooo interesting.

He has the ability to tick different boxes for different players. It makes his play style so open ended.

I can see some matchups where blade stance would really help against opponents with stubby range.
Not to mention the range of his B2 and Df1 in that stance.
He can almost act as that "bully" type of fighter in that stance getting in perfect range for himself while staying out of theirs.

Then you have his projectile.

Fantastic tool imo.
It's fast, good dmg, good chip.
It knocks down on MB, and I think it even jails on some strings, creating true blockstrings (need to research)
It hits over head when MB in the air as well.

With me being a predominately space control"ish"/ zone heavy type of player, it's not really hard to see why I love this tool so much.

Plus, you know it's good when you have over 30 messages on PSN of people telling you that you are a spamming scrub

I need to up my game, I haven't gotten any hatemail yet!

 

[|Phantom|]

@TurboTaco here you go, idk how much good it'll do =) I'm not super good

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC784QHBqdlumZDno1N7kLwA/videos

wait, does trait really increase the range on df1? I just assumed he did that with trait active looking arms, regardless of stance, the same way
.

It doesn't increase the range of the special, but it increases the mind game of the 50/50

Anyone who knows the MU knows that BB's B2 has horrible range. So they are of course going to block low until he is right next to them.

With blades out, B2 reaches as far and df1, creating much more of a "guessing situation" and a truer 50/50 if you will


Edit: think of Summoner Quan in the beginning of MKX, his b3 starter had stubby range, but his B2 (overhead sword) was a godlike button.

In BB's blade stance, both moves are a threat from the same position

 

[pfiidud3]

Makes since. I don't like the gun, cause I'm 50/50ing the opponent to death.

 

[|Phantom|]

Makes since. I don't like the gun, cause I'm 50/50ing the opponent to death.

Soooo, real talk.
How good is his rushdown?

Cuz I have no clue how to play that way. I've started playing with Robin a little bit.. Just in training, because I heard he has a great neutral. But Beetle with blades has just as many great strings, and as good if not better reach...

Just wanna pick your brain

Edit: I'd much rather just play one character, so learning his rushdown elements will help that, surely

 

[Sesal Snow]

Aquaman match up is interesting I dunno how I feel about it. I found myself pretty much never bothering with low stab to start combos unless I landed a jump 3 into down 1 special or trait was totally gone. He can luckily put his safe specials to good effect on Aquaman so it's not too much of an issue.

BB can punish regular trident rush on block with shield bash so that's something helpful to think about.

Post blocked air projectile is an interesting meta. You can backdash the from the deep follow up so if he reads this he can delay to check you, but if he hesitates you can jump back in the air and try to get in striking distance, throw a ground projectile or an air one and then of course there's simply blocking.

They both counter zone each other pretty well and if BB scouts a from the deep, he can punish the whiff with air projectile. Thank goodness for Aquaman's floaty jump as it makes it easier to anti-air him and annoy him with zoning. Jump 1 or down 2 depending on scenario/jump in.

I feel like so many Beetle match ups are contingent on a life lead more so than any other character I've ever played.

I originally thought Aquaman's range and wall he puts up would be super insurmountable but it's pretty tolerable to get in striking distance. Float means he has to guess quite a bit. Jump in, float forward/backward, float air dash, MB projectile, regular air projectile, jump 1 to catch him trying to air to air etc.

This is the match up that I am most comfortable with as my friend who's basically my training partner mains aquaman. I feel that who ever gets a considerable life lead first wins. I feel pushblock in this match up is super important like the supes one and since we are beetle players meter is never a problem.

I feel that beetle has the advantage on the zoning because of the flight cancels which you can use for meter build or to fake out shots.Once you have the life lead aquaman has to come in and this is when you can punish his jump ins or chuck out f2's, bf3's to check him. If he does manage to get in you can just pushblock him away and start your neutral again.
However this goes for aquaman to if he gets a decent enough life lead quickly you can't zone him you have to apply a bit more pressure and aqua douche also has some of the best tools to stop that pressure.
I feel this is an even match.

One more thing I would like to mention is the use of b2 ffmb (The bounce cancel) I feel beetles should use this a lot more. It gives you a double hitting overhead that a lot of people get hit by because they expect the low or the cross-up overhead and it leads to great damage and corner carry. Not only that its plus. It costs two meter but as I have said before I'm pretty sure beetle grows meter out of his ass or something because I just have permanent 2-3 bars due to the zoning and the price is worth the damage in my opinion. The amount of games I close out by going into blade stance use flight cancels until I see an opportunity to get a b2 ffmb f3 making it unclashable and with the extra long range from the blades its fantastic off of a j1.

 

[Sesal Snow]

Soooo, real talk.
How good is his rushdown?

Cuz I have no clue how to play that way. I've started playing with Robin a little bit.. Just in training, because I heard he has a great neutral. But Beetle with blades has just as many great strings, and as good if not better reach...

Just wanna pick your brain

Edit: I'd much rather just play one character, so learning his rushdown elements will help that, surely

I don't feel as if blades should be used as offence tool in most match up's. I feel that his blades are best used when you have the life lead and you need that extra reach to punish jump in's, Dash up's etc so more of a defensive tool.
Obviously there are situation's when you can go for the 211+3 string and get the great oki because of the blades and other setups etc.
I feel beetle's doe's not have a strong rushdown. I think if you want to apply more rushdown pressure then you have to play extremely patient and pick you time's wisely. If you see that the opponent is respecting your flight cancels waiting for a projectile then you can get in using the air dash. Once in you can obviously apply his 50/50 pressure. (b2 df1, b23 and as I mention in my last post b2 ff3) Not only this but his d3 is a god send amazing! range only -6 and can lead into nice oki.
f2 into bf3 is great way to check people as it is safe.
111 is +1 so I like to d1 check people after this or if they know they have a 6 frame d1 or they are just mashing you can do a 111 on bock into a neutral jump to start applying flight cancel pressure or back dash into a jump in.
So I don't think his rushdown is strong but he has some kind of options which I think are very situational. You can't really stay on their tail like a lot of other characters.

 

[pfiidud3]

So, my combos are lacking, I should learn some max dmg shtuff. But as it stands, I do seemingly fine with rush down. Its hard for the opponent to hit me, as I don't let them stand up until I got through a couple low dmg combos.

f2 ender then jump 3 with trait is a 50/50 cross up (that you can follow up with b2 df1, if you dont cross up the first hit, they have to block 3 directions to punish.... or catch a gap before b2)
But I mostly cross up with jump 3 and then df1. (if I am so ambiguous that I confused both players directional inputs, an accidental db1 will connect after the 3. If the jump 3 lands the df1 will connect but, is admittedly less damage potential than you could have hit confirmed into, and less damage than just landing the low)

In the corner, after knock down, jump over air cancel, or 13 reverse fly cancel, lets me try and loop back into the same corner pressure. I love doing this 13 reverse fly cancel, ending up in the corner, and d2 puts me back on the outside with a cross up. and then a b2 df1 again.......

 

[|Phantom|]

This is the match up that I am most comfortable with as my friend who's basically my training partner mains aquaman. I feel that who ever gets a considerable life lead first wins. I feel pushblock in this match up is super important like the supes one and since we are beetle players meter is never a problem.

I feel that beetle has the advantage on the zoning because of the flight cancels which you can use for meter build or to fake out shots.Once you have the life lead aquaman has to come in and this is when you can punish his jump ins or chuck out f2's, bf3's to check him. If he does manage to get in you can just pushblock him away and start your neutral again.
However this goes for aquaman to if he gets a decent enough life lead quickly you can't zone him you have to apply a bit more pressure and aqua douche also has some of the best tools to stop that pressure.
I feel this is an even match.

One more thing I would like to mention is the use of b2 ffmb (The bounce cancel) I feel beetles should use this a lot more. It gives you a double hitting overhead that a lot of people get hit by because they expect the low or the cross-up overhead and it leads to great damage and corner carry. Not only that its plus. It costs two meter but as I have said before I'm pretty sure beetle grows meter out of his ass or something because I just have permanent 2-3 bars due to the zoning and the price is worth the damage in my opinion. The amount of games I close out by going into blade stance use flight cancels until I see an opportunity to get a b2 ffmb f3 making it unclashable and with the extra long range from the blades its fantastic off of a j1.

I love the idea of the B2 bounce cancel

 

[TurboTaco]

I don't feel as if blades should be used as offence tool in most match up's. I feel that his blades are best used when you have the life lead and you need that extra reach to punish jump in's, Dash up's etc so more of a defensive tool.
Obviously there are situation's when you can go for the 211+3 string and get the great oki because of the blades and other setups etc.
I feel beetle's doe's not have a strong rushdown. I think if you want to apply more rushdown pressure then you have to play extremely patient and pick you time's wisely. If you see that the opponent is respecting your flight cancels waiting for a projectile then you can get in using the air dash. Once in you can obviously apply his 50/50 pressure. (b2 df1, b23 and as I mention in my last post b2 ff3) Not only this but his d3 is a god send amazing! range only -6 and can lead into nice oki.
f2 into bf3 is great way to check people as it is safe.
111 is +1 so I like to d1 check people after this or if they know they have a 6 frame d1 or they are just mashing you can do a 111 on bock into a neutral jump to start applying flight cancel pressure or back dash into a jump in.
So I don't think his rushdown is strong but he has some kind of options which I think are very situational. You can't really stay on their tail like a lot of other characters.

Isn't there a gap in 111 after the first 2 hits on block?

 

[Sesal Snow]

So, my combos are lacking, I should learn some max dmg shtuff. But as it stands, I do seemingly fine with rush down. Its hard for the opponent to hit me, as I don't let them stand up until I got through a couple low dmg combos.

f2 ender then jump 3 with trait is a 50/50 cross up (that you can follow up with b2 df1, if you dont cross up the first hit, they have to block 3 directions to punish.... or catch a gap before b2)
But I mostly cross up with jump 3 and then df1. (if I am so ambiguous that I confused both players directional inputs, an accidental db1 will connect after the 3. If the jump 3 lands the df1 will connect but, is admittedly less damage potential than you could have hit confirmed into, and less damage than just landing the low)

In the corner, after knock down, jump over air cancel, or 13 reverse fly cancel, lets me try and loop back into the same corner pressure. I love doing this 13 reverse fly cancel, ending up in the corner, and d2 puts me back on the outside with a cross up. and then a b2 df1 again.......

I would suggest to try and go for max damage. Midscreen I tend to confirm my df1 into the 3 bf2 f23 bf3 off of the db1 I go for b3 j3 3 bf3. However if you wan't to be tricky and go for setups you can obviously go for the f2 mix up as you stated or end in 13 db2 ff db2 and jump back over them.
If you confirm into the db1 you can dash forward and do the b1 restand leaving you in perfect range for a 50/50 or grab.
In the corner you can get amazing damage back into restand.
13 db2 2 13 db2 2 13 bf2mb f23 f3 b1
13 db2 2 13 bf2mb 3 bf2 d2 bf2 13 ff db2 j j2 db2 j2. This will end in a air dash into a cross up and the first j2 will hit behind and the one you cancel into will hit infront.
Just stuff like this that you can add to your game to get that extra damage but still get your sneaky 50/50's and rushdown.
P.S
Sorry for not going into to much detail or setting my posts out a lot more tidy I just don't have the patients and my hands are basically crippled .

 

[|Phantom|]

Isn't there a gap in 111 after the first 2 hits on block?

Yup

 

[Sesal Snow]

Isn't there a gap in 111 after the first 2 hits on block?

Yes you are right I forgot to say that it does in fact have a gap however I feel it is still extremely important to his neutral and a lot of time's you will be mixing it up with other strings like 13 flight cancels. Its just options he has.

 

[|Phantom|]

I would suggest to try and go for max damage. Midscreen I tend to confirm my df1 into the 3 bf2 f23 bf3 off of the db1 I go for b3 j3 3 bf3. However if you wan't to be tricky and go for setups you can obviously go for the f2 mix up as you stated or end in 13 db2 ff db2 and jump back over them.
If you confirm into the db1 you can dash forward and do the b1 restand leaving you in perfect range for a 50/50 or grab.
In the corner you can get amazing damage back into restand.
13 db2 2 13 db2 2 13 bf2mb f23 f3 b1
13 db2 2 13 bf2mb 3 bf2 d2 bf2 13 ff db2 j j2 db2 j2. This will end in a air dash into a cross up and the first j2 will hit behind and the one you cancel into will hit infront.
Just stuff like this that you can add to your game to get that extra damage but still get your sneaky 50/50's and rushdown.
P.S
Sorry for not going into to much detail or setting my posts out a lot more tidy I just don't have the patients and my hands are basically crippled .

I lost patience with the f2,3 bf3 ender.

I just use f2 bf3.

It hits way more reliably.
Also, Can we just take a moment to recognize how great shield is for a combo ender for BB? Good damage, sends them away so he can go back into his zoning.

It's kinda like a perfect move for my general game plan with him

 

[pfiidud3]

I would suggest to try and go for max damage. Midscreen I tend to confirm my df1 into the 3 bf2 f23 bf3 off of the db1 I go for b3 j3 3 bf3. However if you wan't to be tricky and go for setups you can obviously go for the f2 mix up as you stated or end in 13 db2 ff db2 and jump back over them.
If you confirm into the db1 you can dash forward and do the b1 restand leaving you in perfect range for a 50/50 or grab.
In the corner you can get amazing damage back into restand.
13 db2 2 13 db2 2 13 bf2mb f23 f3 b1
13 db2 2 13 bf2mb 3 bf2 d2 bf2 13 ff db2 j j2 db2 j2. This will end in a air dash into a cross up and the first j2 will hit behind and the one you cancel into will hit infront.
Just stuff like this that you can add to your game to get that extra damage but still get your sneaky 50/50's and rushdown.
P.S
Sorry for not going into to much detail or setting my posts out a lot more tidy I just don't have the patients and my hands are basically crippled .

Thank you, I honestly just can't land that df1 3 bf2 f2 combo.... so I chose to just use the most nerfiest damage attacks ever. d2 and f2

 

[Sesal Snow]

Thank you, I honestly just can't land that df1 3 bf2 f2 combo.... so I chose to just use the most nerfiest damage attacks ever. d2 and f2

Just try get the timing of the standing 3 I find as soon as I seem them bounce from the ground you can 3 them then. Note on some small hit box's you should end in f2 bf3 instead of the full f23

 

[|Phantom|]

Thank you, I honestly just can't land that df1 3 bf2 f2 combo.... so I chose to just use the most nerfiest damage attacks ever. d2 and f2

You could also do what Espio does...

Opener xxx df1mb xxx 111 xxx shield

 

[TurboTaco]

Thank you, I honestly just can't land that df1 3 bf2 f2 combo.... so I chose to just use the most nerfiest damage attacks ever. d2 and f2

Honestly dude I have the worst execution ever and I'm getting better at landing that combo, it just takes time! I find its much easier on big bodies too.

 

[|Phantom|]

Honestly dude I have the worst execution ever and I'm getting better at landing that combo, it just takes time! I find its much easier on big bodies too.

Not to sound arrogant.

That combo is really not very hard to execute. It's the timing that gets most people.

The 3xx gun is instant. Then you pause before f2 shield

 

[pfiidud3]

Well, I'll give it a shot, I appreciate yall giving me hope. df1 3 bf2 f2...

Ur saying the 3 is as fast as possible?

 

[Sesal Snow]

Well, I'll give it a shot, I appreciate yall giving me hope. df1 3 bf2 f2...

Ur saying the 3 is as fast as possible?

Just gotta hit the 3 when they are nice and high. I struggled at first but its basically my bnb now never drop it.

 

[JustinXavier21]

Well, I'll give it a shot, I appreciate yall giving me hope. df1 3 bf2 f2...

Ur saying the 3 is as fast as possible?

It's about hitting the 3 while the opponent is REALLY high. You can actually tell quite early if you missed it and switch to a raw shield sometimes to finish. I really think it's pretty easy once you get used to it - no reason to lose out on the free damage there as it's definitely just a standard combo.

Also, liking a lot of what @Sesal Snow is saying - though with the TF2 D2 stuff, I feel it can genuinely be used more on offence now. It's definitely there for counterpoking and shutting stuff down when you have meter/life advantage. I'm usually switching back to Cannon stance after a Mandible though as I like the change of pace it forces on the opponent.

 

[Sesal Snow]

It's about hitting the 3 while the opponent is REALLY high. You can actually tell quite early if you missed it and switch to a raw shield sometimes to finish. I really think it's pretty easy once you get used to it - no reason to lose out on the free damage there as it's definitely just a standard combo.

Also, liking a lot of what @Sesal Snow is saying - though with the TF2 D2 stuff, I feel it can genuinely be used more on offence now. It's definitely there for counterpoking and shutting stuff down when you have meter/life advantage. I'm usually switching back to Cannon stance after a Mandible though as I like the change of pace it forces on the opponent.

Yeah that's it. switching to cannon after mandible is the smart thing to do you can control the range you want them at. You just gotta judge the situation when to switch between the stances. Also take into account what the match up is like no need to go blade against someone like Swamp Thing since you can just zone him completely unless you go for a setup you confirm from a hit even then you will go back to zoning 90% of the time.

 

[|Phantom|]

So, I played ranked for about an hour last night (*rolls eyes*). I recorded everything. I got about 20 games in. 15/20 matches were either AquaMan or Black Adam. I'm getting better with the AquaMan MU. I just try to play as patiently as possible, stay in the air to punish from the deep, AND STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THAT EFFING TRIDENT.

Black Adam is different to me though. I try to move up and back as often as I can to avoid Lighting and dive kick. But holy shit. If I make ONE mistake. There goes 400-600 dmg... it feels pretty lopsided, seeing as how BB doesn't exactly have the strongest dmg himself. I'm not saying this MU feels unwinable, because I don't really think BB has anything worse than a 4-6 (I truly think he is that well rounded ) I just wanna know what you guys are doing against this character to level the playing field so to speak

 

[pfiidud3]

So, I played ranked for about an hour last night (*rolls eyes*). I recorded everything. I got about 20 games in. 15/20 matches were either AquaMan or Black Adam. I'm getting better with the AquaMan MU. I just try to play as patiently as possible, stay in the air to punish from the deep, AND STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THAT EFFING TRIDENT.

Black Adam is different to me though. I try to move up and back as often as I can to avoid Lighting and dive kick. But holy shit. If I make ONE mistake. There goes 400-600 dmg... it feels pretty lopsided, seeing as how BB doesn't exactly have the strongest dmg himself. I'm not saying this MU feels unwinnable, because I don't really think BB has anything worse than a 4-6 (I truly think he is that well rounded ) I just wanna know what you guys are doing against this character to level the playing field so to speak

I don't let him stand back up. You gotsta play rush down, and air cancel, jump back, airial 2, and land on his pre-emptive dive kicks.

Your right, you have to make more good reads then him due to damage disparity. But if you play bb more rush down, and less ranged, I think you have the advantage. The problem is that BB can't convert from range attacks like BA can, so don't play that game.