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Black Manta General Discussion "I brought a hook to hang you from."

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
It's called conditioning. I played a guy called SU Megafox. Apparently at the top of the leaderboard. I got a few mixes in on him. However I didn't execute well. You gotta be ok point and mixing it up.
The float cancels and rockets work fine for me.
And the float, in my opinion, is actually good and has uses.
Y'all tripping.

I want you to be right.. and I'm not saying you aren't. Its just not.. i dunno, I fucking hate using the word 'cause the concept of it is sorta stupid, but, "real".. So I think it is absolutely about conditioning and expectation. It's a tool you dont lean on, you just sorta sway in its direction on occasion, lol.

Like, SG's teleport isnt "real" either, in that its totally reactable and unsafe as shit and blah blah, but I was just watching TitaniumTigerz and SilverRye's streams the other day - both of whom are absolutely excellent players, and on both streams they fought a couple SG's.. and got tagged by the teleport.

I mean, watch Sonic play Captain Cold, Ive seen him go into a string and cancel into rubbing that damn gun right in someone's face for a split second because they just dont expect it, they walk back a half step or so before they realize WTF just happened, lol.

just my .02. I know float/rocket pressure isnt the same as the above listed examples, but I think we sometimes forget our opponents arent computers that read our inputs and always react the correct way. They may expect something else, or just get caught. I feel like Manta has several things that are designed that way. I mean, I see people challenge + frames all the time and its surprising how often it works because they have a read or are making sure you arent fucking around.

Of course, we dont want to build a character gameplan around shit that's not real, but these are still viable tools that have their uses. Shrug.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Im confused. His movelist is showing that he has zero plus frames on anything. How are we getting plus 10 stuff Im seeing? And what is this tech thing

Rockets are very plus.. Movelist says -whatever, but if you test ingame, they are def plus. It's either the frame data just being wrong, or something about how its calculated not translating real well. They are sadly a high, but I absolutely feel like they have uses.
 

Reauxbot

You think you bad? You aint bad.
Rockets are very plus.. Movelist says -whatever, but if you test ingame, they are def plus. It's either the frame data just being wrong, or something about how its calculated not translating real well. They are sadly a high, but I absolutely feel like they have uses.
I'm glad they're a high. In reality if they were a mid it'd be hella broken. Manta would have the highest offense in the game if rockets were mid lol. Considering you can fire one off on someone's wakeup and be safe.
 

Reauxbot

You think you bad? You aint bad.
I want you to be right.. and I'm not saying you aren't. Its just not.. i dunno, I fucking hate using the word 'cause the concept of it is sorta stupid, but, "real".. So I think it is absolutely about conditioning and expectation. It's a tool you dont lean on, you just sorta sway in its direction on occasion, lol.

Like, SG's teleport isnt "real" either, in that its totally reactable and unsafe as shit and blah blah, but I was just watching TitaniumTigerz and SilverRye's streams the other day - both of whom are absolutely excellent players, and on both streams they fought a couple SG's.. and got tagged by the teleport.

I mean, watch Sonic play Captain Cold, Ive seen him go into a string and cancel into rubbing that damn gun right in someone's face for a split second because they just dont expect it, they walk back a half step or so before they realize WTF just happened, lol.

just my .02. I know float/rocket pressure isnt the same as the above listed examples, but I think we sometimes forget our opponents arent computers that read our inputs and always react the correct way. They may expect something else, or just get caught. I feel like Manta has several things that are designed that way. I mean, I see people challenge + frames all the time and its surprising how often it works because they have a read or are making sure you arent fucking around.

Of course, we dont want to build a character gameplan around shit that's not real, but these are still viable tools that have their uses. Shrug.
Manta certainly has options that are limited only to the players imagination. We all thought float would be stupid, well I didn't, and then bam all sorts of strategies surrounding it.
And another thing about Mantas jet pack. You gotta think about the balancing around it and all. The trait is set to a way to be fair. As in its "odd" movements. If the jetpack fired up instantly and full speed then that would obviously warrant a complaint. Or if you could instantly attack out of it then you'd have mad plus frametraps.
I can kinda understand why his jetpack would be awkward to fit into a fighting game.
Not a lot of 1v1 fighters have a jetpack character. That I've played at least.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
Manta certainly has options that are limited only to the players imagination. We all thought float would be stupid, well I didn't, and then bam all sorts of strategies surrounding it.
And another thing about Mantas jet pack. You gotta think about the balancing around it and all. The trait is set to a way to be fair. As in its "odd" movements. If the jetpack fired up instantly and full speed then that would obviously warrant a complaint. Or if you could instantly attack out of it then you'd have mad plus frametraps.
I can kinda understand why his jetpack would be awkward to fit into a fighting game.
Not a lot of 1v1 fighters have a jetpack character. That I've played at least.

Yeah, agreed. I think the power of the jet pack isn't in any one thing it can do, but rather the numerous things it allows. You can change your trajectory, move around, cancel and drop right down, and while you're up there you can use multiple moves.. a lot of us thought going on that Manta would BE his jet pack, but that's not exactly it.

Very interesting character and I feel like he's going to take creative players to succeed.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Manta certainly has options that are limited only to the players imagination. We all thought float would be stupid, well I didn't, and then bam all sorts of strategies surrounding it.
And another thing about Mantas jet pack. You gotta think about the balancing around it and all. The trait is set to a way to be fair. As in its "odd" movements. If the jetpack fired up instantly and full speed then that would obviously warrant a complaint. Or if you could instantly attack out of it then you'd have mad plus frametraps.
I can kinda understand why his jetpack would be awkward to fit into a fighting game.
Not a lot of 1v1 fighters have a jetpack character. That I've played at least.
NRS comes up with some of the most unique designs for play styles when it comes to fighting games.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
If you could give me 3 legitimate uses for his trait I'll sht up besides the meterslless damage..
Off the top of my head, oki setups, air mobility(Would get you over Deadshot's rifle, etc. Any sort of air float is useful.), good damage combos that leave the opponent standing.

And besides just giving you damage off b11U3 you get different ender options.
 

Reauxbot

You think you bad? You aint bad.
I see a lot of Mantas not converting on f21 confirms.
I'm sure it's since we're all new to him and we're used to using the full string whether it hits or not.
f21 mbUppercut b11u3 AH.
I'm sure that combo is listed. But I've hit people with that quite a bit last night in neutral confirms.
 

UGL Preon

The Casual God
Premium Supporter
Uses for trait.

Corner pressure. ✓
Optimal damage for some combos with trait 3xxharpoon ✓
Avoid some Zoning ✓
Good with anti air combos such as D2ing a jump in ✓
Even on block if you've conditioned them with f213. F21 float 2xxmissilexxcancel into throw or f2 or D1 or b2 or 2d3. ✓
Wake up Reversal ✓

To name a few.
 

Reauxbot

You think you bad? You aint bad.
and i feel batman is fine where he's at despite how good his trait can be.
A lot of people on here even go to say he's broken/op.
TYM is always one to go for Top 8s or whatnot but Batman is just as scarce as the other characters.
So far I only know of Madzin. And FK.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
It's called conditioning. I played a guy called SU Megafox. Apparently at the top of the leaderboard. I got a few mixes in on him. However I didn't execute well. You gotta be ok point and mixing it up.
The float cancels and rockets work fine for me.
And the float, in my opinion, is actually good and has uses.
Y'all tripping.
I think it's usefulness depends on the match up... Upon my testing, some characters have easy and/or really good answers to it. I probably would hardly ever use the float in pressure on a Supergirl that knows the match up, but against someone like Arrow, I definitely would..
 

SaucyD0ge

Worst european batman
Batman isn't a strict rushdown character, he has stupid zoning.
When Batman can batarang for free at a distance, any match-up can become in his favor just because you have to play into his hand.(example:Cheetah, Brainiac and Robin mus).But his batarangs are out done by any fast advancing projectile, of which we have a lot of in this game.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
lots of rushdown characters have really ambiguous jump ins, harleys, canarays, etc. its not unique to batman. i say he's fine.
I would say to do a traditional nerf to his J2, but he kan grapple reset into his jump in... It's also harder to anti-air than pretty much any other ambiguous jump in.
 

thlityoursloat

kick kick
When Batman can batarang for free at a distance, any match-up can become in his favor just because you have to play into his hand.(example:Cheetah, Brainiac and Robin mus).But his batarangs are out done by any fast advancing projectile, of which we have a lot of in this game.
It's a good thing he can press 4 to automatically stop all zoning then, huh.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
I would say to do a traditional nerf to his J2, but he kan grapple reset into his jump in... It's also harder to anti-air than pretty much any other ambiguous jump in.
nah, i say his ji2 is fine, maybe reduce the hit stun on his bats so he doesnt get a punish out side of being point blank, but other than that nah he's good, i don't even think he needs that kind of nerf tbh.
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
nah, i say his ji2 is fine, maybe reduce the hit stun on his bats so he doesnt get a punish out side of being point blank, but other than that nah he's good, i don't even think he needs that kind of nerf tbh.
Whatever I guess... I use him as one of my three so I don't kare. Just arguing for the sake of fairness.