Match-up Discussion Black Adam Matchup Discussion

[Lord Chaos]

Can anyone help me out with the MMH and WW match ups. Playing Orochi. I find that you have to be really patient with MMH and look for an opportunity to get in and do big damage. The WW matchup however I am at a complete loss. Any tip or pointers would be awesome.

 

[Chongo]

What's the thought of NW-Adam? My opinion is 6-4 adam, curious as to what other adam players think.

 

[Fred Marvel]

so since there is no organized matchup list im just gonna ask here
who are his best and worst matchups? the ones the majority tend to agree on

 

[shinobispectre]

Wow this is dead... Black Adam vs GL anyone? I think BA wins but I'm biased for Marvel characters. Seriously. BA has solid counter-zoning right? Laggy startup of Black Magic aside full screen Black Adam wins? Or Rockets too annoying to deal with? Start of the match is tricky since both chars have powerful start moves in b2 and b1.

 

[RIF]

Wow this is dead... Black Adam vs GL anyone? I think BA wins but I'm biased for Marvel characters. Seriously. BA has solid counter-zoning right? Laggy startup of Black Magic aside full screen Black Adam wins? Or Rockets too annoying to deal with? Start of the match is tricky since both chars have powerful start moves in b2 and b1.

I am having ALL sorts of problems fighting this character with BA. Air OA's rocket is a problem. Why would GL ever stay grounded? Air Turbine can hit BA out of the air AND stops the dive kick.
Not sure what I am supposed to in the match-up at all.

B13 > B23 ALL day

It seems like GL outfootsies BA pretty badly.

Looking for BA mains to shed some light.

 

[Vocket]

I am having ALL sorts of problems fighting this character with BA. Air OA's rocket is a problem. Why would GL ever stay grounded? Air Turbine can hit BA out of the air AND stops the dive kick.
Not sure what I am supposed to in the match-up at all.

B13 > B23 ALL day

It seems like GL outfootsies BA pretty badly.

Looking for BA mains to shed some light.

You can punish GL at full screen and bit ahead of that if he does air OA. At max range if GL does air OA it will whiff and you can punish it with a black magic. However, the GL player will rarely do OA at max range. A better punish I found but that only works on a read is to a forward jump when you think GL will do air OA and hit at an angle where the non-MB divekick will combo into b23. As you said before the air turbine will beat the dive kick so this will only work on a read, but you can eat 3 turbines to make for the damage dive kick into b23 does. (25% for b23 1 vs 8% turbine smash)

The fight for air control is pretty intense, GL cant really stay in the ground chucking OA's or doing minigun because dive kick easily beats that. The secret to beating turbine is lightning hands. Early lightning hands beats turbine, and can sometimes punish a turbine that was too high. It is always useful to lightning hands after blocking turbine or after it whiffs to check the opposing GL player.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Hey fellow Teths.
Looking from some knowledge in the Batgirl and Harley match ups. A training partner recently started using them.
I'm more comfy in the Harley match, my main issue is guns. Looking for a good strategy around them.
Batgirl- mainly looking for good punishes on her wake up cartwheel and uppercut. Little things to look for in order to blow her up. Possibly ways to avoid the vortex set up as well. I am able to deal with her Smoke Bomb and minimal zoning already.
Just trying to get a little more prepared for next time.

 

[A New Angel Is Advent]

I am having ALL sorts of problems fighting this character with BA. Air OA's rocket is a problem. Why would GL ever stay grounded? Air Turbine can hit BA out of the air AND stops the dive kick.
Not sure what I am supposed to in the match-up at all.

B13 > B23 ALL day

It seems like GL outfootsies BA pretty badly.

Looking for BA mains to shed some light.

Couple other things

You can forward dash air oa to close in. You can also punish it by jumping oa and divekicking GL on his descent but you risk eating an air turbine if your jump counter attempt is baited.

You can punish a blocked lift at too far for b2 range with lightning hands.

Remember after his block strings (usually block low for b1, then high while reacting if a second b1 is thrown out) if he doesn't trait cancel he is negative. Still safe, but you can start your own pressure. It's more about the opponent style at that point, but you have to learn when to disrespect his footsies after blocking the first attempt, and this varies on the player'a tendencies.

Lightning cage hit box can stuff a lot of his vortexy stuff but can also be baited. It's great to throw out on crossup happy GLs to keep them honest.

 

[Jaku2011]

Am I playing it wrong or does Luthor body Adam?

 

[MajinBerserker]

Am I playing it wrong or does Luthor body Adam?

I've played this match a lot with a training partner in my scene. With the Low Lightning hit box change, Adam has to be a LOT more careful in this match. Armor is tough to deal with, so I keep trait up as much as possible. Luckily, Lex is slow, super readable and all of his specials and wake ups are slow and punishable. Corp Charge needs to be respected on wake up but it is ALWAYS full combo punished on block. Adam can react to all of Lex's specials on start up, though, and dash/punish/read accordingly. Especially full screen. Once Adam gets the knock down, it's still his game. Just have to prevent Lex from starting up his game and throwing out all of his toys.

 

[A New Angel Is Advent]

I've played this match a lot with a training partner in my scene. With the Low Lightning hit box change, Adam has to be a LOT more careful in this match. Armor is tough to deal with, so I keep trait up as much as possible. Luckily, Lex is slow, super readable and all of his specials and wake ups are slow and punishable. Corp Charge needs to be respected on wake up but it is ALWAYS full combo punished on block. Adam can react to all of Lex's specials on start up, though, and dash/punish/read accordingly. Especially full screen. Once Adam gets the knock down, it's still his game. Just have to prevent Lex from starting up his game and throwing out all of his toys.

This sums it up perfectly. It's possible lex has a slight advantage in the MU. I didn't start getting wins until I learned every nuance of his trait. You have to be aware of lex trait (even more than your own) and the current trait level at all times to adapt your gameplan

There are times when he can mb with trait and get stacked armor. He has frame traps that Adam can no longer backdash out of. If you throw out lightning you'll get pelvic thrusted in the face.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Pelvic thrusted right into a mine and combo. Ugh.

Lol. It's true.

 

[GGA HAN]

GL-Adam is kind of tough since Adam gets nothing guaranteed for backdashing the 2nd hit of b1,3. You can check him with a lighting hands (palpatine) afterwards that he has to respect, though. Its good to be in the habit of backdashing the 2nd hit, because then he can't cancel into the Oa Rocket, leaving him massively plus frames. If the GL reads your backdash, he can b1 X lift, which is risky for Lantern, though.

Turbines are tough to get around in this MU since the only true punish is an instant MB divekick, which is possible, but hard to do in the heat of battle (blackmagic and palpatine dont punish)

At max range, a blocked lift from GL is usually only punished by a blackmagic combo (which scales now) so you wont be getting as much damage as he would be getting on you had the lift connected. You can also attempt an instant air MB divekick, but like the turbine, is really tough to do in the frames you have.

You basically have to make your read on if he's going to air turbine or air rocketpower, and try to MB divekick him if you read air rocketpower. While you will get clipped by a turbine if thats what he uses, you'll get 39% if you catch him on the way down from throwing air-rockets.

Hope this helps...

 

[rev0lver]

I think Lex beats Adam. I've run this matchup a ton with Rico and Smarrgasm. The only thing Black Adam has to stop me from doing what I want to do is trait, but Lex's trait lasts longer than his. I can just sit there and block until it's gone, then go in. Otherwise the only thing Black Adam has to threaten me is low lightning, which I can easily just jump over and corp charge. Rico agreed that the only thing keeping the MU more even is Adam's damage, but I just think Lex has more opportunities overall to do what he wants while limiting your gameplan.

 

[MajinBerserker]

I think Lex beats Adam. I've run this matchup a ton with Rico and Smarrgasm. The only thing Black Adam has to stop me from doing what I want to do is trait, but Lex's trait lasts longer than his. I can just sit there and block until it's gone, then go in. Otherwise the only thing Black Adam has to threaten me is low lightning, which I can easily just jump over and corp charge. Rico agreed that the only thing keeping the MU more even is Adam's damage, but I just think Lex has more opportunities overall to do what he wants while limiting your gameplan.

I can understand this. BA has to keep on the offense and prevent Lex from starting his- thus turning the match in his favor. I can definitely see the match favoring Lex when he gets to do what he wants. And I do agree with Lex having more opportunity to run his game plan in the match.

 

[MajinBerserker]

@AK Smarrgasm @GGA HAN
All other BA players:

Any advice on the Sinestro and Superman match ups? Best strategy, etc.

Also, Doomsday tips- specifically the up-close game?

 

[GGA HAN]

@AK Smarrgasm @GGA HAN
All other BA players:

Any advice on the Sinestro and Superman match ups? Best strategy, etc.

Also, Doomsday tips- specifically the up-close game?

I play several great doomsdays here in Chicago so I've got a lot to say on the matchup, the other ones I'm not as well versed in:

So, at shoulder range if you aren't cornered you can play the standard Adam foootsies game, trying to bait out shoulder with either neutral jumps (which can be clipped by the MB shoulder massive hitbox) or you can pre-emptively use trait, and use it like a "toll" - What I mean by this is if you feel a MB shoulder is coming on, trait up and block...if they shoulder, they are eating the full damage of the trait before the post MB-venom guessing games even start. This sways the risk/reward even more in your favor. After you block MB-venom, your options (if you already didn't know) are backdash (beats d1 x anything), MB b3/f3 beats them doing a slower move to counter your backdash (like doomsdays f2, for example) and d1 x whatever beats other slower options that are slower than 12 frames. Somestimes Doomsdays like to forward dash after they make you block MB-venom, anticipating your backdash, and because DD has a faster recovering forward dash, they can full combo you if they make that read.

I'll add more later about burning up his trait.

 

[GGA HAN]

(con't)

Burning Up Doomsdays trait:

I like to use the 113 string either by itself or cancelled into trait, then try to hit-confirm the last hit of the string into either MB low lightning if they are blocking (which will give you a decent amount of space to go back to the regular footsies game) or if you can confirm the they are trying to mash a d1 x whatever in the middle of the string or they get hit thinking you're done with your offense, hit confirm the last hit of 113 into MB palpatine (lightning hands) which will hit for 5 more hits and potentially burn their entire trait and send them full screen. Beware that if they still have trait hits left after the last hit of the MB lightning hands, they will be at advantage and be able to combo you. So on block: 113 x trait, 113 x MB low lighting, on hit 113 x trait, 113 x MB lighting hands. You can start either of these options with b2 instead of 113 if you have to as well, which will help Adam get in range.

Here is a match where you see several of these concepts from me, VS Jeremiah:

Hope this helps!

 

[MajinBerserker]

@GGA HAN
Great stuff man! Thank you very much.
I'll definitely use this info and work it into my strategy for the DD match-up.

 

[Rude]

First, I apologize if I've already asked this before.

How does Black Adam do vs:

Harley Quinn
Raven
Zod
and Aquaman?

 

[MajinBerserker]

First, I apologize if I've already asked this before.

How does Black Adam do vs:

Harley Quinn
Raven
Zod
and Aquaman?

I can expand on some of these match-ups. I'll start off- they all have an answer for dive kicks, but most of the cast has a jumping attack or zoning tool that does. So that's nothing new.

Zod & Raven: @AK Smarrgasm would have a lot better tips about these match-ups than I, considering he gets to train with Pig and DreamSword. I will say that their strong zoning can definitely cripple Adam. Especially Raven's. I have had a chance to play DreamSword at UFGT and you have to play the match extremely patiently with Adam. His dash nerfs don't allow him to safely dash through a lot of her zoning tools. Raven definitely has the advantage.

Harley: I have a training partner in my scene in STL. Play patient and hope she tries to rush you down. You can't dash through her straight guns, so you'll just have to duck and then play the guessing game when she moves close. Air guns you can see coming and just wait for a whiff or punish opportunity. Always be aware of her MB guns, she can delay them. Also, low lightning and black magic cannot trade with her guns (when shot constantly)- at all, if she starts the offensive with them. Don't try it. Unless the Harley is a scrub.
When she tries to jump at you and come in with the high or low starter, that's where I feel you want to be. Once you see the set-ups a few times, they're easy to block and punish. Stay on her and keep her close, Adam wins. She does have good damage, though, as well.
The match feels pretty even because she can zone Adam out all match if she wants, and she has several options of blowing up dive kicks.

Aquaman: I've got offline training partners. @GGA HAN also probably has really good advice on this one since he plays Jeremiah.
To me, if Aqua plays lame and waits to punish everything- which he's good at because of his footsies and trident range, he wins. If Aqua tries to rush you down and get frisky, Adam can whiff punish and blow him up- then Adam wins. Try to keep your offense to b23 combo starters and MB dive kicks (as whiff punishers) in order to negate his trait and just go ham on him. Aqua has good damage, also, but Adam can make it up. This is one of those matches that feels 100% even, one of the most even in the game to me. Both characters can punish the other and have ways of blowing the other up. Also, low lightning and From the Deep trades are no longer advantageous to Adam, so I wouldn't waste your time. Slowly come in and wait for a dive kick opportunity to get close. Be wary of Aqua's godlike j2, as well. Anti-air dive kick is a little tricky in this match-up because of Aqua's j2.

I hope some of this helps. If you have different opinions- share them, I'd like to hear. I play only offline so my advice is tested and worked out.
And in all honesty, Adam goes even with most of the cast now. A few winning match-ups, few losing (zoners!). No huge advantages like pre-Oct. patch. I would say that Zod and Raven are some of his toughest match-ups. Even though I don't have high level training partners that use those characters- on paper and in theory, the match-ups seem very awful. Hahaha!

 

[Error]

Ares: 6-4
Aquaman: 4-6
Bane: 5-5
Batgirl: 5-5
Black Adam: 10-0
Catwoman: 5-5
Cyborg: 5-5
Deathstroke: 4-6
Doomsday: 5-5 (maybe 4-6)
Flash: 5-5
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 4-6
Harley Quinn: 5-5
Hawkgirl: 5-5
Joker: 6-4
Killer Frost: 4-6
Lex Luthor: 5-5
Lobo: 6-4
Martian Manhunter: 4-6
Nightwing: 6-4
Raven: 4-6
Scorpion: 6-4
Shazam: 5-5
Sinestro: 5-5
Solomon Grundy: 6-4
Superman: 5-5
Wonder Woman: 3-7
Zatanna: 5-5
Zod: 4-6

7 Winning
12 Even
9 Disadvantage with only one being particularly hard.



Since there's no listed MU chart this is just a rough estimate, anyone want to add any suggestions?

 

[GGA HAN]

Ares: 6-4
Aquaman: 4-6
Bane: 5-5
Batgirl: 5-5
Black Adam: 4-6
Catwoman: 4-6
Cyborg: 5-5
Deathstroke: 4-6
Doomsday: 5-5 (maybe 4-6)
Flash: 5-5
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 4-6
Harley Quinn: 5-5
Hawkgirl: 5-5
Joker: 6-4
Killer Frost: 4-6
Lex Luthor: 5-5
Lobo: 6-4
Martian Manhunter: 4-6
Nightwing: 6-4
Raven: 4-6
Scorpion: 6-4
Shazam: 5-5
Sinestro: 5-5
Solomon Grundy: 6-4
Superman: 5-5
Wonder Woman: 3-7
Zatanna: 5-5
Zod: 4-6

7 Winning
11 Even
10 Disadvantage with only one being particularly hard.



Since there's no listed MU chart this is just a rough estimate, anyone want to add any suggestions?

The Black Adam mirror is disadvantage?

edit: one of the matchups I actually know really well is Catwoman, its even in my opinion.

 

[Error]

The Black Adam mirror is disadvantage?

edit: one of the matchups I actually know really well is Catwoman, its even in my opinion.

It's actually 10-0 because Black Adam always wins. I wasn't sure on Catwoman.

 

[Clark L.]

Ares: 6-4
Aquaman: 4-6
Bane: 5-5
Batgirl: 5-5
Black Adam: 4-6
Catwoman: 4-6
Cyborg: 5-5
Deathstroke: 4-6
Doomsday: 5-5 (maybe 4-6)
Flash: 5-5
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 4-6
Harley Quinn: 5-5
Hawkgirl: 5-5
Joker: 6-4
Killer Frost: 4-6
Lex Luthor: 5-5
Lobo: 6-4
Martian Manhunter: 4-6
Nightwing: 6-4
Raven: 4-6
Scorpion: 6-4
Shazam: 5-5
Sinestro: 5-5
Solomon Grundy: 6-4
Superman: 5-5
Wonder Woman: 3-7
Zatanna: 5-5
Zod: 4-6

Since there's no listed MU chart this is just a rough estimate, anyone want to add any suggestions?

I don't think he loses to aqua, wowo that bad, deathstroke, and killer frost