Match-up Discussion Black Adam Matchup Discussion

[Error]

I don't think he loses to aqua, wowo that bad, deathstroke, and killer frost

DS number I got from MIT's MU thread, Brady thinks Aquaman beats BA now although it could be even, same with KF. Wonder Woman does absolutely destroy BA though, her design basically counters his entire game plan, she outfootsies him, can't be zoned with lightning, and doesn't have to respect his wake-ups.

 

[Clark L.]

DS number I got from MIT's MU thread, Brady thinks Aquaman beats BA now although it could be even, same with KF. Wonder Woman does absolutely destroy BA though, her design basically counters his entire game plan, she outfootsies him, can't be zoned with lightning, and doesn't have to respect his wake-ups.

Idk, maybe I'm just trying to up - play him, but still the others I think are pretty even, although wowo instant demigodess thing pisses me off to no end

 

[RelentlessOhio]

DS number I got from MIT's MU thread, Brady thinks Aquaman beats BA now although it could be even, same with KF. Wonder Woman does absolutely destroy BA though, her design basically counters his entire game plan, she outfootsies him, can't be zoned with lightning, and doesn't have to respect his wake-ups.

This is true with about everyone post-patch. BA is garbage now.

 

[Clark L.]

This is true with about everyone post-patch. BA is garbage now.

Noooooo

He still has a lot of...

 

[MidTierHarley]

Wonder woman def 7-3s Adam its hopeless. Aqua is 4-6 for sure it used to be really even but now Aqua just does everything better than Adam. The low lightning nerfs really hurt this character and is the biggest single nerf in the game. His zoning and footsies were really hurt and Adam not having a good anti air really sucks

 

[Espio]

Ares: 6-4
Aquaman: 4-6
Bane: 5-5
Batgirl: 5-5
Black Adam: 10-0
Catwoman: 5-5
Cyborg: 5-5
Deathstroke: 4-6
Doomsday: 5-5 (maybe 4-6)
Flash: 5-5
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 4-6
Harley Quinn: 5-5
Hawkgirl: 5-5
Joker: 6-4
Killer Frost: 4-6
Lex Luthor: 5-5
Lobo: 6-4
Martian Manhunter: 4-6
Nightwing: 6-4
Raven: 4-6
Scorpion: 6-4
Shazam: 5-5
Sinestro: 5-5
Solomon Grundy: 6-4
Superman: 5-5
Wonder Woman: 3-7
Zatanna: 5-5
Zod: 4-6

Agree on Hawkgirl and Martian, but I was curious why you think he loses to Killer Frost now? No idea about the match up, just would like some insight, thanks.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

If you guys had to describe how Black Adam plays, what would you even say now?

His zoning isn't very good so I wouldn't say he's a zoner.

His mobility is average now so I wouldn't say he zips around a lot.

His footsies are only average (15 frames for your only footsie tool is not very good) so I wouldn't call him a footsie character.

Pressure maybe? Since he has a lot of plus on block stuff? But how is he even suposed to really start his pressure?


I can't really figure how he's worth anything anymore. Would love for someone to prove me wrong. Anyway here's my matchup chart based on using him in tournaments (which probably nobody even knows I did)

Spoiler

Ares: 7-3
Aquaman: 4-6
Bane: 4-6
Batgirl: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Catwoman: 4-6
Cyborg: 5-5
Deathstroke: 4-6
Doomsday: 4-6
Flash: 4-6
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 5-5 (i don't honestly know)
Hawkgirl: 6-4
Joker: 6-4
Killer Frost: 6-4
Lex Luthor: 4-6
Lobo: 6-4
Martian Manhunter: 3-7
Nightwing: 5-5
Raven: 4-6
Scorpion: 6-4
Shazam: 5-5
Sinestro: 6-4
Solomon Grundy: 4-6
Superman: 4-6
Wonder Woman: 4-6
Zatanna: 6-4
Zod: 4-6

 

[Qwark28]

BA used to be a high mobility character that would lame you out and antizone you, forcing you to come in if you couldn't zone him or just had to. Now it's easier to jump lightning, his mobility has been hella nerfed. He can't zone, counterzoning with black magic is hopeless because you still don't have the zoning tools to force them to come in and must gamble with a -1000 move.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

BA used to be a high mobility character that would lame you out and antizone you, forcing you to come in if you couldn't zone him or just had to. Now it's easier to jump lightning, his mobility has been hella nerfed. He can't zone, counterzoning with black magic is hopeless because you still don't have the zoning tools to force them to come in and must gamble with a -1000 move.

I basically feel the same way.

 

[New52Mitch]

If you guys had to describe how Black Adam plays, what would you even say now?

His zoning isn't very good so I wouldn't say he's a zoner.

His mobility is average now so I wouldn't say he zips around a lot.

His footsies are only average (15 frames for your only footsie tool is not very good) so I wouldn't call him a footsie character.

Pressure maybe? Since he has a lot of plus on block stuff? But how is he even suposed to really start his pressure?


I can't really figure how he's worth anything anymore. Would love for someone to prove me wrong. Anyway here's my matchup chart based on using him in tournaments (which probably nobody even knows I did)

Spoiler

Ares: 7-3
Aquaman: 4-6
Bane: 4-6
Batgirl: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Catwoman: 4-6
Cyborg: 5-5
Deathstroke: 4-6
Doomsday: 4-6
Flash: 4-6
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 5-5 (i don't honestly know)
Hawkgirl: 6-4
Joker: 6-4
Killer Frost: 6-4
Lex Luthor: 4-6
Lobo: 6-4
Martian Manhunter: 3-7
Nightwing: 5-5
Raven: 4-6
Scorpion: 6-4
Shazam: 5-5
Sinestro: 6-4
Solomon Grundy: 4-6
Superman: 4-6
Wonder Woman: 4-6
Zatanna: 6-4
Zod: 4-6

You have batgirl being 5-5 can you explain because I feel like it's 6-4 batgirl

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

You have batgirl being 5-5 can you explain because I feel like it's 6-4 batgirl

It could be.

Her footsies game isn't stronger than his, which makes it feel not terrible to me. Their main footsies tools are similar speed and range. Also she can't just throw bolas over and over or she gets dive kicked. Of course he can't throw lightning (god lightning sucks), but she can't punish black magic on block at least.

 

[Error]

I basically feel the same way.

I just feel like he's a bad counter character who basically has to rely on the opponents actions but he's always at a risk. He has to catch the opponent whiffing/blocking low, if not all he can do is mediocre chip damage. He's basically mediocre at everything, keep away, rush down, footsies, counter-zoning, oki, AA.

 

[Error]

Agree on Hawkgirl and Martian, but I was curious why you think he loses to Killer Frost now? No idea about the match up, just would like some insight, thanks.

It used to be Adam's advantage, but everything he had that gave her trouble has been nerfed, and she has good knockdown pressure, Adam is just a step above Aquaman when it comes to getting off the ground but with much weaker defensive options so they're even at full screen, but she wins up close, this is all imo.

 

[Billy Dha Kid]

If you guys had to describe how Black Adam plays, what would you even say now?

His zoning isn't very good so I wouldn't say he's a zoner.

His mobility is average now so I wouldn't say he zips around a lot.

His footsies are only average (15 frames for your only footsie tool is not very good) so I wouldn't call him a footsie character.

Pressure maybe? Since he has a lot of plus on block stuff? But how is he even suposed to really start his pressure?


I can't really figure how he's worth anything anymore. Would love for someone to prove me wrong. Anyway here's my matchup chart based on using him in tournaments (which probably nobody even knows I did)

Spoiler

Ares: 7-3
Aquaman: 4-6
Bane: 4-6
Batgirl: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Catwoman: 4-6
Cyborg: 5-5
Deathstroke: 4-6
Doomsday: 4-6
Flash: 4-6
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 5-5 (i don't honestly know)
Hawkgirl: 6-4
Joker: 6-4
Killer Frost: 6-4
Lex Luthor: 4-6
Lobo: 6-4
Martian Manhunter: 3-7
Nightwing: 5-5
Raven: 4-6
Scorpion: 6-4
Shazam: 5-5
Sinestro: 6-4
Solomon Grundy: 4-6
Superman: 4-6
Wonder Woman: 4-6
Zatanna: 6-4
Zod: 4-6

Can you explain how exactly black adam loses to grundy

 

[Yoaks]

Realizing how bad Black Adam is now compared to the higher tier of characters makes me emo.

 

[Clark L.]

 

[Peckapowa]

If you guys had to describe how Black Adam plays, what would you even say now?

His zoning isn't very good so I wouldn't say he's a zoner.

His mobility is average now so I wouldn't say he zips around a lot.

His footsies are only average (15 frames for your only footsie tool is not very good) so I wouldn't call him a footsie character.

Pressure maybe? Since he has a lot of plus on block stuff? But how is he even suposed to really start his pressure?


I can't really figure how he's worth anything anymore. Would love for someone to prove me wrong. Anyway here's my matchup chart based on using him in tournaments (which probably nobody even knows I did)

Spoiler

Ares: 7-3
Aquaman: 4-6
Bane: 4-6
Batgirl: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Catwoman: 4-6
Cyborg: 5-5
Deathstroke: 4-6
Doomsday: 4-6
Flash: 4-6
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 5-5
Harley Quinn: 5-5 (i don't honestly know)
Hawkgirl: 6-4
Joker: 6-4
Killer Frost: 6-4
Lex Luthor: 4-6
Lobo: 6-4
Martian Manhunter: 3-7
Nightwing: 5-5
Raven: 4-6
Scorpion: 6-4
Shazam: 5-5
Sinestro: 6-4
Solomon Grundy: 4-6
Superman: 4-6
Wonder Woman: 4-6
Zatanna: 6-4
Zod: 4-6

claiming martian to be 3-7 and zod to be 4-6 seems backwards, calling zod a 4-6 is upplaying in my opinion because black adam doesn't have options to deal with jump back 1 and instant airs... and if you have no instant airs zod can just build meter for trait.

i don't see how any1 can call zod a 4-6 when they look at the tools on the highest level, doesn't seem realistic, zod has an extreme advantage, you can't even anti-air a jump back fireball or get around it, let alone instant air fastball beats anything he has, and he can just jump up and shoot mb balls to start slowball you.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

claiming martian to be 3-7 and zod to be 4-6 seems backwards, calling zod a 4-6 is upplaying in my opinion because black adam doesn't have options to deal with jump back 1 and instant airs... and if you have no instant airs zod can just build meter for trait.

i don't see how any1 can call zod a 4-6 when they look at the tools on the highest level, doesn't seem realistic, zod has an extreme advantage, you can't even anti-air a jump back fireball or get around it, let alone instant air fastball beats anything he has, and he can just jump up and shoot mb balls to start slowball you.

The way I see it is Zod at least has to get his shit started, and if he just does raw IAZB bladam can catch him out of it with black magic on the way down, so he has to at least find an opportunity to do it, while Martian doesn't.

Also Black Adam can be less scared to throw out Lightning or Black Magic from full screen vs Zod, since Zod can't really punish them but Martian destroys his shit for even trying. Also if Bladam ever gets in footsies range, it's way easier to fight Zod than Martian. Same thing with knockdown, I would much rather knock down Zod.

All I know is the MMH matchup is harder than the Zod matchup, but calling the MMH matchup an 8-2 felt like a bit much to me...

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Can you explain how exactly black adam loses to grundy

He can't Zone Grundy obviously, so he has to play him in footsies range where he has to deal with Grundy's armor. If he does Walking Corpse you can B2 late to be throw immune, but if he does WCC > D2 it will catch you out of it and you will eat 50%.

Also Bladam is super free on wakeup to Grundy, he has to respect his wakeup mixups so hard.

And if Grundy gets a life lead + chip trait, what the fuck is Black Adam supposed to do to open him up? Haha.


I feel like Bladam used to win this matchup when he could literally just run away the whole game, but he can't anymore so I hate it.

 

[Peckapowa]

The way I see it is Zod at least has to get his shit started, and if he just does raw IAZB bladam can catch him out of it with black magic on the way down, so he has to at least find an opportunity to do it, while Martian doesn't.

Also Black Adam can be less scared to throw out Lightning or Black Magic from full screen vs Zod, since Zod can't really punish them but Martian destroys his shit for even trying. Also if Bladam ever gets in footsies range, it's way easier to fight Zod than Martian. Same thing with knockdown, I would much rather knock down Zod.

All I know is the MMH matchup is harder than the Zod matchup, but calling the MMH matchup an 8-2 felt like a bit much to me...

zod can jump back, and shoot fast balls, / high instant fast ball, and it will punish any dash or black magic

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

zod can jump back, and shoot fast balls, / high instant fast ball, and it will punish any dash or black magic

Punish any dash after what? I'm sure if it's just raw he can dash forward while you jump back and least gain some distance.

 

[Peckapowa]

The way I see it is Zod at least has to get his shit started, and if he just does raw IAZB bladam can catch him out of it with black magic on the way down, so he has to at least find an opportunity to do it, while Martian doesn't.

Also Black Adam can be less scared to throw out Lightning or Black Magic from full screen vs Zod, since Zod can't really punish them but Martian destroys his shit for even trying. Also if Bladam ever gets in footsies range, it's way easier to fight Zod than Martian. Same thing with knockdown, I would much rather knock down Zod.

All I know is the MMH matchup is harder than the Zod matchup, but calling the MMH matchup an 8-2 felt like a bit much to me...

i just feel like black adam does better vs martian, he can actually get past the zoning and martian has to be careful because he can be counter-zoned occasiaonlly by black magic and instant dive kick, and black adam can compete when martian loses trait, plus he has b2 after oh tp on block and can punish backdash with insta dive kick.

if zod gets setup, black adam has 0 options but too wait for zod to get trait and start up again, and it doesn't take much for zod to initaite his zoning.

 

[Peckapowa]

Punish any dash after what? I'm sure if it's just raw he can dash forward while you jump back and least gain some distance.

yes you if you react to the jump backwards my bad, good luck reacting to a proper instant though. Thing is if you dash forward i can get an instant slow ball out

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

i just feel like black adam does better vs martian, he can actually get past the zoning and martian has to be careful because he can be counter-zoned occasiaonlly by black magic and instant dive kick, and black adam can compete when martian loses trait, plus he has b2 after oh tp on block and can punish backdash with insta dive kick.

if zod gets setup, black adam has 0 options but too wait for zod to get trait and start up again, and it doesn't take much for zod to initaite his zoning.

Red Orb / MB Pillar stop him from dive kicking. If he whiffs a Black Magic (or on block if the MMH is good at the IATP punish) Bladam eats a lot of damage against Martian.

Getting around Zod's zoning takes a lot of patience, but you don't need to make any crazy risks, but getting around MMH's zoning does require you to make very dangerous reads.

Also like I said, once you get in you're STILL at a big disadvantage vs Martian, but not vs Zod. Same with knockdown.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

yes you if you react to the jump backwards my bad, good luck reacting to a proper instant though. Thing is if you dash forward i can get an instant slow ball out

I think that even if you reacted to the jump late, you would be able to dash and block a fast air zod ball in time since the startup isn't THAT fast.