Big props to to the major Kitana players at Evo!

[Earthbound360]

Sq boost just above the floor of a stage can actually hit a NAKED DUCKERS! Ive had her do it to opps that kept staying there to avoid her fans. Idt u can IaSB it tho, has to be at the very end of a forward jumping arc.

Xray also hits naked duckers, catches them by surprise under the same cicrumstances as well. Regular cutter can be ducked under with a guard or not.

Wait wait, so the entire Cutter is duckable?
Then all of a sudden I feel a lot less safe using D1, Cutter. People can just punish after the D1, right? In theory, wouldnt it be safer to use D1, square boost instead? Say goodbye to the pressure though...

 

[16 Bit]

Wait wait, so the entire Cutter is duckable?
Then all of a sudden I feel a lot less safe using D1, Cutter. People can just punish after the D1, right? In theory, wouldnt it be safer to use D1, square boost instead? Say goodbye to the pressure though...

Yes. They can block the d+1, duck the cutter then stand and punish the whiff with full combo.

 

[Earthbound360]

Ooh, that's heartbreaking.

 

[DrDogg]

Yeah, the era of throwing out d+1~cutter without consequence is probably almost over.

I haven't been able to d+1~Cutter spam for months. Every time I watch match vids of Kitana d+1~Cutter spam, I shake my head at the lack of knowledge in the community.

Osu I really liked that f4,1~fake out off of jps. Makes the opp have to block high AND then low, works great for mixing it up off of jps, esp the safe jump ones off of cutters that hit.

The problem with this is that Kitana doesn't want the opponent ducking. IMO, d+1~Cutter is her best tool, but against a ducking opponent it's virtually useless. I do everything I can to keep the opponent stand blocking as much as possible. Not to mention, most of Kitana's lows aren't guessing games at all.

People need to stop sleeping on kitana. Congrats to all.

IMO, Kitana isn't very good. Mid-tier at best. It's just that no one knows how to fight her. Stay crouching, avoid jumping aside from a safe jump setup, and punish d+1. Kitana doesn't have much to defend against these strats.

I'm not sure if you can poke out of f+2~fake out. Nobody has ever tried. They just start blocking it everytime. They're too afraid of f+2,1.

Just about anything into Fake Out can be interrupted if the opponent releases block with precision timing and uses a 6-8 frame attack.

 

[Konqrr]

d1 into Square Boost is even more punishable lol

I want people to not respect my d1~cutter because it opens up more options for me. If they let go of block after a d1, I get to do d1 all day on them to keep them blocking which lets me get d1~cutter when I want it. Even if they block low and only one hit of the cutter is blocked, I am still at advantage and get more d1 spam.

Kitana is top tier for sure because of her air control with fans and ground control with d1, not d1~cutter.

Kitana is the best at getting the First Hit bonus because of d1. This move punishes, PUNISHES, a blocked d3 and many many more moves on block. How important is meter? More important than your lifebar, right?

d1 is a meta-game in itself.

 

[DrDogg]

I want people to not respect my d1~cutter because it opens up more options for me. If they let go of block after a d1, I get to do d1 all day on them to keep them blocking which lets me get d1~cutter when I want it. Even if they block low and only one hit of the cutter is blocked, I am still at advantage and get more d1 spam.

Not sure who you're playing, but Kitana is NOT at advantage if the last hit of Cutter whiffs. Adept opponents can actually interrupt during the last hit of Cutter. Against someone who knows how to fight Kitana, you'll get poked every time you try d+1~Cutter. The only benefit is the fact that d+1 won't be punished as much.

Kitana is top tier for sure because of her air control with fans and ground control with d1, not d1~cutter.

I couldn't disagree more. Air control only goes so far, and d+1 is punishable. I can't see either of those making Kitana top tier when I look at the tools Reptile, Kabal, Raiden and Kung Lao have. Absolutely no comparison...

Kitana is the best at getting the First Hit bonus because of d1. This move punishes, PUNISHES, a blocked d3 and many many more moves on block. How important is meter? More important than your lifebar, right?

I agree that d+1 is great for getting the first hit bonus, but against someone good who knows the Kitana match-up, they'll wait for d+1 and punish you. Depending on their character, you could be eating 30-50% for attempting d+1.

 

[Konqrr]

I couldn't disagree more. Air control only goes so far, and d+1 is punishable. I can't see either of those making Kitana top tier when I look at the tools Reptile, Kabal, Raiden and Kung Lao have. Absolutely no comparison...

Of course there are characters who can punish it. Reptile players can get 23% with enhanced dash unless they are cornered, then they get more.

Kabal, what does he get off d1 blocked? nothing. He is the one controlling the air, and it is a bad matchup for Kitana.

Raiden gets 10% with Superman, but he has to time it to the frame to punish it.

Kung Lao has to be very close to punish d1 with spin. Any other range and he has to waste a bar to get an enhanced spin and I can't see a Lao player wanting to burn meter in that matchup.

Cage I think gets an enhanced shadow kick, but like Raiden, he has to be a jedi and burn a meter.

Sub Zero might be able to slide if she is really close, but if he messes up, she takes 50%.

I agree that d+1 is great for getting the first hit bonus, but against someone good who knows the Kitana match-up, they'll wait for d+1 and punish you. Depending on their character, you could be eating 30-50% for attempting d+1.

Against a good Kitana player, they will be doing d1 at range where only Reptile can punish it, and in that matchup, she won't be in his face much.

Who can get 50% or even close to it by punishing d1?

 

[DrDogg]

Who can get 50% or even close to it by punishing d1?

Kung Lao can punish with his x-ray.

 

[Konqrr]

Kung Lao can punish with his x-ray.

Only if he is close. I've baited Lao's Xray with d1 only to have it whiff where I punished with :en fan into 50%.

 

[DrDogg]

Only if he is close. I've baited Lao's Xray with d1 only to have it whiff where I punished with :en fan into 50%.

You asked who can punish with 50%, so I told you. There are ways you can bait out any punishment, especially in MK9. The point was simply that Kitana's d+1 can be punished with 50%.

 

[Konqrr]

Regardless of the fact that d1 is punishable, and punished hard by Lao/Reptile... it is one of the best moves in the game.

d1 is punishable by Lao, Reptile, Raiden, Cage, and maybe Sub/Cyber Sub. You have to be a jedi to punish it on reaction, you actually have to wait and watch for it which slows down your reactions to her other attacks like throws and iAFs.

The fact that you can duck and punish cutter with a full combo is not that big of a deal, it just changes how you approach with her offense.

 

[VIDA]

Yeah exactly its a little like Lao's spin, even tho its punishable its clearly the best move in the game, just gotta know when to have him use it.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Thanks everyone.

The most played characters at EVO were Kitana, Ermac, Cyrax, and Kung Lao. Kitana players in every pool I watched.

d14life

yea and let it be known no ermacs (to my knowledge) made it past top 64

and only one cyrax made it to top 16 and that was Mamba

 

[DrDogg]

Yeah exactly its a little like Lao's spin, even tho its punishable its clearly the best move in the game, just gotta know when to have him use it.

No. It's nothing like Kung Lao's Spin. If Kung Lao hits Spin, he gets 20-40% or more, followed by wake-up options for more pressure. If Kitana hits d+1 she gets what... 1% and frame advantage?

It's definitely not the best move in the game. Even if some characters can't punish, or it's only light punishment, she's still at a big negative. A good opponent will take advantage of the momentum loss. You guys just need to find better competition... actually, the MK community as a whole needs to level up.

 

[brotana]

I love Kitana, she is pretty much the only char I use, but im not under any illusion as to her being top tier. She is IMO right at that fractional line between mid tier and top tier. Equal skilled players, she will dominate pretty much everything on the character select screen that isnt one of the magical 6 or 8 top tier fighters. Otherwise, it seems her tools are just simply not as good. I dont really care though, to be honest. The "flow" of Kitana suits the way I play perfectly and no other MK9 character really fits me, and I used Kitana to great effect in the arcades back in the 90's so I have a connection to the character. Even if she was useless I would still use her, and I pride myself on doing well with her. I am just a lowly online player in a small town though so my experience is limited in that.

I do love to watch these people at tournaments tear shit up with her though. When I see a kitana smash a KL or a Raiden it tickles my tack.

 

[VIDA]

No. It's nothing like Kung Lao's Spin. If Kung Lao hits Spin, he gets 20-40% or more, followed by wake-up options for more pressure. If Kitana hits d+1 she gets what... 1% and frame advantage?

It's definitely not the best move in the game. Even if some characters can't punish, or it's only light punishment, she's still at a big negative. A good opponent will take advantage of the momentum loss. You guys just need to find better competition... actually, the MK community as a whole needs to level up.

Sorry I worded it wrong. I just meant it's similar in that it's not always safe, and just has to be used a little cautiously at times now ( d1 that is).

My point just was that Laos spin is the best move in the game despite being punishable by every char. it just has to be used at the right time. While d1 is obviously no spin, I'm just applying similar logic to why it's still a viable move.

I still think it's a great anti-pressure move, and d1~cutter still has it's applications, just that it's not as easy to just have her throw out anymore.

 

[DrDogg]

But Spin alone basically makes Kung Lao top tier. d+1 does not make Kitana top tier. Similar application, but extremely different results.

 

[Konqrr]

Denial!

My d1 would reach from here in Utah all the way to Arizona to hit you out of the lunch you are eating now.

 

[Earthbound360]

I honestly think you are greatly underrating the D1. Like seriously, what is the ratio of hits/block to 50% punishes you've recieved? I can't say I remember a lot if any. There's a difference between "possible" and "practical." Sure you can do it, but how easy is that gonna be to get consistently? It's kinda like (pardon my obscure fighting game reference) how you -can- jab Saki's bullets in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, but it's extremely difficult and not worth the danger. It was overall too impractical and no one had the balls to do it.

 

[DrDogg]

I honestly think you are greatly underrating the D1. Like seriously, what is the ratio of hits/block to 50% punishes you've recieved? I can't say I remember a lot if any. There's a difference between "possible" and "practical." Sure you can do it, but how easy is that gonna be to get consistently? It's kinda like (pardon my obscure fighting game reference) how you -can- jab Saki's bullets in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, but it's extremely difficult and not worth the danger. It was overall too impractical and no one had the balls to do it.

Find better competition?

I consistently d+1 Kung Lao's low hat on block and it's only -7 or so. Tom Brady was consistently hitting Spin after low hat on block in the Kung Lao mirror he played against LK-520 at Evo.

Not everyone I play against punishes d+1, just like a lot of people I play against don't know that Kitana is at severe disadvantage if you duck. But the tier list is based on the highest level of play. So assuming people won't be able to punish d+1, which in turn makes Kitana top tier, is just crazy talk.

 

[Pretty Boy]

I honestly think tier lists are somewhat silly in themselves. It's actually the skill of the gamer that makes characters "top tier" imo. However, with that said, Kitana is certainly top tier. 1.) She has a teleport that not only effectively get her out of trouble but it does damage if it hits the opponent. 2.) You can use this teleport low for offense. 3.) She is the queen of the air...one landed air fan and she can do 25-30% damage easily. 4.) 50% combo meterless 5.) Several mix ups 6.) She has steel fans and she's the princess of outworld for Kahn's sake!!!

 

[DrDogg]

I honestly think tier lists are somewhat silly in themselves. It's actually the skill of the gamer that makes characters "top tier" imo. However, with that said, Kitana is certainly top tier. 1.) She has a teleport that not only effectively get her out of trouble but it does damage if it hits the opponent. 2.) You can use this teleport low for offense. 3.) She is the queen of the air...one landed air fan and she can do 25-30% damage easily. 4.) 50% combo meterless 5.) Several mix ups 6.) She has steel fans and she's the princess of outworld for Kahn's sake!!!

If a game is balanced well enough, anyone can win, even with a low tier character. However, that doesn't invalidate the tier list. It's extremely rare to see people win with low tier characters, especially in games that aren't all that balanced. When Stryker wins a tournament with decent competition, let me know.

That said, Kitana is not top tier:

1. The "teleport" is unsafe in many situations and even the EX isn't invincible during start-up.

2. Which leads to nothing on hit, and Kitana takes damage if you use the EX version to go through an attack.

3. I'll agree with this, but smart players don't jump against Kitana. Just like you don't jump against Kabal, Kung Lao or many other characters. This negates her air dominance.

4. Agreed 100%. She's arguably the best combo character in the game, but with breakers and ridiculously safe attacks, combo damage alone isn't enough to make a character top tier.

5. She has no mix-ups. Not a single one. Everything she has that is overhead/low, at least one of the two attacks can be blocked on reaction.

6. Irrelevant.

 

[Earthbound360]

Find better competition?

I consistently d+1 Kung Lao's low hat on block and it's only -7 or so. Tom Brady was consistently hitting Spin after low hat on block in the Kung Lao mirror he played against LK-520 at Evo.

Not everyone I play against punishes d+1, just like a lot of people I play against don't know that Kitana is at severe disadvantage if you duck. But the tier list is based on the highest level of play. So assuming people won't be able to punish d+1, which in turn makes Kitana top tier, is just crazy talk.

This is in reference to your 50% punish line. Punishing low hat on block with D1 is easy, anyone can do it. Now compare that to 50% on a D1 from Kitana? You can just mash out the D1 on reaction block to the low hat, but to get 50% off of Kitty's D1, you have to react terribly quickly with a good combo move.

Kitty is top tier because she has good tools to heavily limit options that many other characters have. This in turn provides her with good matchups, and that's what makes her top tier. Not just D1 alone, not just 50% combos, but a combination of her moves that provides her a method of limiting the abilities of others, be it fast normals, air fans to control the air, or long range to keep characters with spacing issues at bay.

 

[brotana]

I honestly think tier lists are somewhat silly in themselves. It's actually the skill of the gamer that makes characters "top tier" imo. However, with that said, Kitana is certainly top tier. 1.) She has a teleport that not only effectively get her out of trouble but it does damage if it hits the opponent. 2.) You can use this teleport low for offense. 3.) She is the queen of the air...one landed air fan and she can do 25-30% damage easily. 4.) 50% combo meterless 5.) Several mix ups 6.) She has steel fans and she's the princess of outworld for Kahn's sake!!!

i dont know how anyone can say kitana has "several mixups". she has almost no mix ups. a couple things off f4 hit high then low, but its slow as hell. you want to completely negate the 4 button on your kitana opponents controller? everytime you see her leg start a roundhouse, do an uppercut. you have about plenty of time between when that high kick turns into a sweep or an overhead. one of kitanas biggest weaknesses is that her entire lineup is high. she is desperate for something that hits other than high. i fear that when folks begin to learn that you can lock kitana down completely by simply ducking she will lose the psyche edge of the whirring fans.

 

[jaybt9]

I love Kitana, she is pretty much the only char I use, but im not under any illusion as to her being top tier. She is IMO right at that fractional line between mid tier and top tier. Equal skilled players, she will dominate pretty much everything on the character select screen that isnt one of the magical 6 or 8 top tier fighters. Otherwise, it seems her tools are just simply not as good. I dont really care though, to be honest. The "flow" of Kitana suits the way I play perfectly and no other MK9 character really fits me, and I used Kitana to great effect in the arcades back in the 90's so I have a connection to the character. Even if she was useless I would still use her, and I pride myself on doing well with her. I am just a lowly online player in a small town though so my experience is limited in that.

I do love to watch these people at tournaments tear shit up with her though. When I see a kitana smash a KL or a Raiden it tickles my tack.

^This. I'm the exact same situation. Those who can master Kitana, I give them major kudos.