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Question - Smoke best characters against smoke

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Definetely. It whiffs against Scorpion too. And Scorpion can full combo punish when it whiff. Maybe GMSZ can do that too.

And i think it is pretty fair.
Smoke's B21 is stupid.
There is a gap in b21 , they should have to interrupt it on purpose not get it for free cuz their not stand blocking
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
There is a gap in b21 , they should have to interrupt it on purpose not get it for free cuz their not stand blocking
I took the trouble to lab this B21. I know what you mean. There's a gap between the B2 and 1. And it's fairly noticeable, if you see Smoke getting away from the klone. If Smoke touches the Klone with B2, he gets frozen, so he needs to stay away from it. This is where you can protect yourself from the back attack.

Now I know why he has problems with being in the corner. He cannot smoke out (Fade away), because he might get frozen, so either he'll do the skydrop attack or just wallrun.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
I took the trouble to lab this B21. I know what you mean. There's a gap between the B2 and 1. And it's fairly noticeable, if you see Smoke getting away from the klone. If Smoke touches the Klone with B2, he gets frozen, so he needs to stay away from it. This is where you can protect yourself from the back attack.

Now I know why he has problems with being in the corner. He cannot smoke out (Fade away), because he might get frozen, so either he'll do the skydrop attack or just wallrun.
the skydrop isnt armored and will get stuffed, and on the off occassion that it doesnt get stuffed it just drops him into clone before the hitbox connects with sub
 

Toogee

Kotal Kone BARGOD/sungod main
Oh duh he never even crosses my mind as a legitimate threat so I forget BG is even a thing for Sub because nobody wants to try that. Kotal in general gets raped by Sub now.
Sungod vs Gm is in SG's favor imo. Pizza TRAVELS through ice klone for no bar. Full screen = sunray + sunstone + I build bar + you cant chip me. Idk how reliable it is but I armored command grab through klone one time when it spawned. I've yet to lose in the MU
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Sungod vs Gm is in SG's favor imo. Pizza TRAVELS through ice klone for no bar. Full screen = sunray + sunstone + I build bar + you cant chip me. Idk how reliable it is but I armored command grab through klone one time when it spawned. I've yet to lose in the MU
There's the kounter for this Pizza. I kan serve you back a frozen pizza. ;)

This Pizza is so slow to make.
 

Toogee

Kotal Kone BARGOD/sungod main
Not sure if this is a troll, but Sun God gets annihilated by Grandmaster. 7-3 imo
What does GM have over sungod? Theres no reason to approach klone. Your reply is trolling if anything. Im contributing based off of experience and labing, how'd you figure 7-3?
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
Sun God has no way through the ice clone other than EX Sunstone. Considering that they nerfed the block advantage, made Kotal's B1 a high, Sub has an amazing backdash AND gave Sub Zero a 7 frame d1, it's virtually impossible to lock Grandmaster down.

Grandmaster beat Sun God pre-patch, when Kotal was stronger as a whole. It's much worse now.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Sub dicks all three of Kotals variations pretty bad. Sun God might be the best of the 3 vs him now though. Yeah disk goes through klones but he can slide. The reasons it's 7-3 is because Kotal is helpless if:

1. Sub gets a life lead and runs away using klones and just re klone when he loses one or slide under a disc.

Or more importantly
2. The corner... yeah ggs
 

Toogee

Kotal Kone BARGOD/sungod main
There's the kounter for this Pizza. I kan serve you back a frozen pizza. ;)

This Pizza is so slow to make.
If your commiting to ice ball, thats slow as well and does no chip. That scenario could go either way. I can afford to waste bar on ex pizza to safely react to iceball or klone. From there is a sunray. Wheres your chip/offense while I heal? I can/will force you to make the next move while I collect full health if i play optimally. I've got armor grab, air grab, and xray to squash your advancements. Id accept 5-5 even but its not GM's MU. Next time I play a decent GM I'll upload it to kotal general discussion to visually show what im talking about. If anyone would like to challenge me steam/psn is on my profile. Im done for this is the wrong thread to debate pizza
 

Toogee

Kotal Kone BARGOD/sungod main
Sun God has no way through the ice clone other than EX Sunstone. Considering that they nerfed the block advantage, made Kotal's B1 a high, Sub has an amazing backdash AND gave Sub Zero a 7 frame d1, it's virtually impossible to lock Grandmaster down.

Grandmaster beat Sun God pre-patch, when Kotal was stronger as a whole. It's much worse now.
Thats where you get 7-3. Play the match up. You shouldnt be trying to kill GM. Get a decent chunk of health from him (1 ex sunstone) then keep full screen and heal. Use timer if you must... Just saying
 

xSamuel

Player of All, Master of None.
Oh kotals vari's wargod is the only one that stands a chance against sub
I play GM casually and ran into a Blood God who played the MU very well. He could turtle against GM and his normals outclassed Sub when I tried to run in. Might be different now but I think it's a MU worth looking into
 

xSamuel

Player of All, Master of None.
you guys sure a well timed ex phase won't get em out?
It's not about the timing, it's about the spacing. Go into the lab and try to phase through the Klone. You have to be very close to it otherwise you get caught in your recovery. To get that precise with spacing is really not worth the risk of spending a bar to get punished and reset the situation
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
so the trick is to time it right when sub attacks then eh?
Not really because ex phase doesn't go far enough and you will end up in the clone anyway , best thing to do with smoke is d1 subs b3/throw , njp the 12 ice burst and phase away to make the b2 whiff and try to get a d1
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Not really because ex phase doesn't go far enough and you will end up in the clone anyway , best thing to do with smoke is d1 subs b3/throw , njp the 12 ice burst and phase away to make the b2 whiff and try to get a d1
they should make smokes f3 go thru projectiles/ice klone :p