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Question - Smoke best characters against smoke

loogie

Noob
Smoke has a lot of flaws that GMSZ can beat.

The Smoke Out and the Skydrop Attack can be freezed spot on with Ice Klone. His Smoke out can also be hit (noticed that when I wanted to do D4xxIK).

If he throws at you the smokeball, then you block low to avoid it, and if he does the skydrop attack, you block high.

If you do the Ice Klone and stay inside the klone, while ducking, you're very safe from both of the above attacks.

Pre-patch, Smoke used to pass through the Ice Klone with Skydrop Attack with armor. Now, it's no longer doable.

I did beat my friend's Smoke from 6-1 to 6-6, meaning 5 consecutive wins.
I played the matchup quite a bit. I still think its in Smoke favor.

1) Midscreen Smoke's b21 negates clone, he controls the neutral way better than GM ever can. and good luck taking him to the corner.
2) Smoke has way better strings, and staggers upclose. Meaning, when he catches you with a combo into a restand he has a lot of options to continue offense. So the midscreen battle is lost. in corner, ALOT of variations in the game now have trouble against GM, it's not only Smoke. But smoke having greater mobility, makes him very difficult to contain, capture, and carry to the corner..
3) ducking inside the clone to avoid a b21 or a skydrop.. well, he can shoot his SAFE smoke bomb, which is safe from anywhere outside of upclose range to get rid of your clone. staying inside clone is not all safe either, the clone is destroyed if a physical contact is made at same time with Sub and the clone. this is like pokes, when you stand inside clone and you get poked on block and clone goes.
4) you cannot on reaction do a clone on a skydrop ... I don't care if you are a jedi or an alien species. that is simply impossible to do.
5)pre patch Smoke didn't have any armor on his ex skydrop move. just to clarify that point from your post. In fact, Smoke never had armor on any ex move.

Smoke controls the neutral much better than Sub, is more mobile than Sub and midscreen damage is much higher with a vortex on top, with better strings, mids and staggers.

The matchup is not GM favor guys.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I played the matchup quite a bit. I still think its in Smoke favor.

1) Midscreen Smoke's b21 negates clone, he controls the neutral way better than GM ever can. and good luck taking him to the corner.
2) Smoke has way better strings, and staggers upclose. Meaning, when he catches you with a combo into a restand he has a lot of options to continue offense. So the midscreen battle is lost. in corner, ALOT of variations in the game now have trouble against GM, it's not only Smoke. But smoke having greater mobility, makes him very difficult to contain, capture, and carry to the corner..
3) ducking inside the clone to avoid a b21 or a skydrop.. well, he can shoot his SAFE smoke bomb, which is safe from anywhere outside of upclose range to get rid of your clone. staying inside clone is not all safe either, the clone is destroyed if a physical contact is made at same time with Sub and the clone. this is like pokes, when you stand inside clone and you get poked on block and clone goes.
4) you cannot on reaction do a clone on a skydrop ... I don't care if you are a jedi or an alien species. that is simply impossible to do.
5)pre patch Smoke didn't have any armor on his ex skydrop move. just to clarify that point from your post. In fact, Smoke never had armor on any ex move.

Smoke controls the neutral much better than Sub, is more mobile than Sub and midscreen damage is much higher with a vortex on top, with better strings, mids and staggers.

The matchup is not GM favor guys.
Very interesting. I'd like to play with you to see those stuff and implement them in my playstyle. If you're EU, hit me on. ;)

1) Is that so? I'll have to avoid being close to the clone.
2) I'm quite aware of his center combos. His best game is the center due of his smoke out ability. I have seen a dude doing smoking out every time in his combo to confuse his opponents.
3) His smokeball animation is a little fast than Sub Zero's, but I can manage to avoid it by blocking, and carry on. Why? Because I always keep watching on my opponents.
4) Are you sure? Shall we test it out?
5) OK. If you say so.

Not in GM's favor? Shall we test it out? ;)
 

loogie

Noob
Very interesting. I'd like to play with you to see those stuff and implement them in my playstyle. If you're EU, hit me on. ;)

1) Is that so? I'll have to avoid being close to the clone.
2) I'm quite aware of his center combos. His best game is the center due of his smoke out ability. I have seen a dude doing smoking out every time in his combo to confuse his opponents.
3) His smokeball animation is a little fast than Sub Zero's, but I can manage to avoid it by blocking, and carry on. Why? Because I always keep watching on my opponents.
4) Are you sure? Shall we test it out?
5) OK. If you say so.

Not in GM's favor? Shall we test it out? ;)
Sure what's your id?
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Mileena raped Triborg as a whole pretty hard. Smoke gets mopped, I can only imagine that cancer as CSZ or Cyrax.
 

Wolverine32

PSN: ADM_Wolverine
Mileena does well, I like ravenous and piercing in the match up personally, but all variations are good against him.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Mileena raped Triborg as a whole pretty hard. Smoke gets mopped, I can only imagine that cancer as CSZ or Cyrax.
can't speak on CSZ, but Cyrax does much better v mileena. His gameplan isn't reliant on pressing as many buttons as Smoke, and once he gets started Mileena has no double armor against his set-ups.

Ethereal would probably be trouble tho
 

xSamuel

Player of All, Master of None.
Smoke has a lot of flaws that GMSZ can beat.

The Smoke Out and the Skydrop Attack can be freezed spot on with Ice Klone. His Smoke out can also be hit (noticed that when I wanted to do D4xxIK).

If he throws at you the smokeball, then you block low to avoid it, and if he does the skydrop attack, you block high.

If you do the Ice Klone and stay inside the klone, while ducking, you're very safe from both of the above attacks.

Pre-patch, Smoke used to pass through the Ice Klone with Skydrop Attack with armor. Now, it's no longer doable.

I did beat my friend's Smoke from 6-1 to 6-6, meaning 5 consecutive wins.
Sky Drop never had armor. The main problem in the MU is that Smoke gets locked down in the corner and has trouble with the Klone in the neutral. Other than that, he can manage.
 

xSamuel

Player of All, Master of None.
Guys could you please tell me which characters are good against Smoke?
If you're having problems with Smoke could you please be more specific as to where you have trouble? Is it his vortex, spacing, etc.
 

Error404

Noob
The GM MU single handedly made me not want main Smoke tbh. And in case there are any sz downplayers coming with the "just don't get cornered" bs I want to preemptively remind you that you get cornered from 1 hit in this game.
 

Zaphie

Ninjutsu, Batman
B21 is a really unsafe way around clone , it whiffs on crouch block against sub. If b21 didn't whiff then the MU would be in smokes favor.
Definetely. It whiffs against Scorpion too. And Scorpion can full combo punish when it whiff. Maybe GMSZ can do that too.

And i think it is pretty fair.
Smoke's B21 is stupid.