"Believe in magic yet?" - Zatanna Match-Up Discussion thread

[oP Twist]

If nw gets the momentum going full screen with gp's there isnt really anything zatanna can do except teleport in. If zatanna keeps throwing rings nw staff cant do anything about it unless if the zatanna does puppetmaster, than the momentum flips to nw. Zatanna does beat nw in the air unless if nw does jb2 in staff and zatanna cant reach him.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Ok so apparently Ares and Z is in Z's favor with her trait but Ares always finds a way to reverse my inputs by teleporting, also I don't really know the best trait setups for this matchup. Do you any you?

 

[xXstealthflameXx]

Ok so apparently Ares and Z is in Z's favor with her trait but Ares always finds a way to reverse my inputs by teleporting, also I don't really know the best trait setups for this matchup. Do you any you?

Any combo ito b3 - dash - d2~trait. Then just wait a second and if he teleports on wakeup you can cage, and if he doesnt do cautious zoning.

 

[Phosferrax]

Ok so apparently Ares and Z is in Z's favor with her trait but Ares always finds a way to reverse my inputs by teleporting, also I don't really know the best trait setups for this matchup. Do you any you?

Any combo ended in trance gives a free trait activation and shot.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Any combo ended in trance gives a free trait activation and shot.

Ok so the stuff I've been using. He still finds a way to MB teleport and I can't react.

 

[Phosferrax]

Ok so the stuff I've been using. He still finds a way to MB teleport and I can't react.

I don't think you can actually react to mb tele anyway as he recovers before he reappears anyway, it's more of a read I think. You could also try f21~trait so he can't wake-up with tele.

 

[xXstealthflameXx]

Ok so the stuff I've been using. He still finds a way to MB teleport and I can't react.

Basically just cage cage cage then.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Outside of D2 does Zee have another normal that's a good anti air? I'm having a pain dealing with DS j3 and Arrows j3.

 

[Phosferrax]

Outside of D2 does Zee have another normal that's a good anti air? I'm having a pain dealing with DS j3 and Arrows j3.

You don't anti-air those moves unless you're Aquaman or Wonder Woman, but try an early j1 to beat out those moves on a read.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Outside of D2 does Zee have another normal that's a good anti air? I'm having a pain dealing with DS j3 and Arrows j3.

As soon as you see DS leave the ground input d2. I was anti-airing jonitti's DS pretty consistently as Zatanna.

 

[Laos_boy]

@deg222
Any advice on martian and wowo

 

[Phosferrax]

@deg222
Any advice on martian and wowo

Pick another character for Martian

 

[Shaazzyam]

@deg222
Any advice on martian and wowo

It's not worth it, breh. You have to pick another character.

 

[deg222]

@deg222
Any advice on martian and wowo

MMH: Honestly, this MU is so bad against a MMH who has half a brain. Basically if you don't have meter, you really can't do much. Any non-mb projectile you try to toss can always be countered by an air teleport. If you do have meter, you have to sit at midscreen and control him with MB projectiles followed by normal ones. To get meter, you need to just find the right times to teleport and find the right time to pull out trait. I feel like trait is the key to get any kind of control in this MU. You outzone him with trait shots and if you play it smart, you can bait teleports. Normal teleports you simply block, then punish. Overhead teleports you lightning cage on reaction.

WoWo: If they don't parry, she's pretty free. But if they do parry and know how to instant demi godess, you need to just watch how often you throw rings. The other thing to watch is their jumping patterns. For example, if she jumps forward (from fullscreen) at the same time you throw a ring, she can air dash to avoid the ring. However, if you wait for her to jump and delay your ring, you can catch her out of the air. This example is very common after a clash. Then you just have to watch for when you get cornered. If you feel a b2 is coming, you can mbf3 to armor through it, but she can always bait that. It just gets rough and you have to read your opponent and find a way out.

 

[Laos_boy]

.

MMH: Honestly, this MU is so bad against a MMH who has half a brain. Basically if you don't have meter, you really can't do much. Any non-mb projectile you try to toss can always be countered by an air teleport. If you do have meter, you have to sit at midscreen and control him with MB projectiles followed by normal ones. To get meter, you need to just find the right times to teleport and find the right time to pull out trait. I feel like trait is the key to get any kind of control in this MU. You outzone him with trait shots and if you play it smart, you can bait teleports. Normal teleports you simply block, then punish. Overhead teleports you lightning cage on reaction.

WoWo: If they don't parry, she's pretty free. But if they do parry and know how to instant demi godess, you need to just watch how often you throw rings. The other thing to watch is their jumping patterns. For example, if she jumps forward (from fullscreen) at the same time you throw a ring, she can air dash to avoid the ring. However, if you wait for her to jump and delay your ring, you can catch her out of the air. This example is very common after a clash. Then you just have to watch for when you get cornered. If you feel a b2 is coming, you can mbf3 to armor through it, but she can always bait that. It just gets rough and you have to read your opponent and find a way out.

Yeah martian is miserable I don't think I'll run that again. I don't how you took REO to the limits. I think I'd rather fight Aquaman.
Wowo seem doable tho. PLs iaDG were pretty good and he had reactions to parry. Guess I needed to be more patient and try to make better reads and wait for a misplaced Demi godess

 

[Phosferrax]

.

Yeah martian is miserable I don't think I'll run that again. I don't how you took REO to the limits. I think I'd rather fight Aquaman.
Wowo seem doable tho. PLs iaDG were pretty good and he had reactions to parry. Guess I needed to be more patient and try to make better reads and wait for a misplaced Demi godess

If you read a demi-godess you can hold f3 to lower your hitbox so it whiffs and you can punish it. Or you can just uses cards.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Question on wiff is Superman's ground lasers unpunishable if I anticipate them and teleport behind him?

 

[bishbash]

Question on wiff is Superman's ground lasers unpunishable if I anticipate them and teleport behind him?

You can catch him out of startup with puppet master. I'd only tele punish his air lasers, I've even been beat out of my follow up after MB tele

 

[Phosferrax]

Alright geezers, having seen this big mu chart, it got me thinking about 2 mu's in particular that don't seem that discussed.

The 2 mu's are Green Arrow and Shazam, both of which I think could be 6-4 for Zat, but are listed as 5-5. Thoughts?

 

[kevkopdx]

Alright geezers, having seen this big mu chart, it got me thinking about 2 mu's in particular that don't seem that discussed.

The 2 mu's are Green Arrow and Shazam, both of which I think could be 6-4 for Zat, but are listed as 5-5. Thoughts?

i think both of these mus are difficult for Z... i think shazam is 6-4 only if you are spaced properly, one hard knockdown into trait and shazam is f-ed in my opinion... but midscreen i have a lot of problems with shazam--

green arrow i feel is 5-5 just because he can keep you in check with projectiles and is hard to punish up close... the only thing keeping it even is arrow's low damage as far as my experience goes-- its one of my least favorite mus, feels so tedious...

 

[Phosferrax]

i think both of these mus are difficult for Z... i think shazam is 6-4 only if you are spaced properly, one hard knockdown into trait and shazam is f-ed in my opinion... but midscreen i have a lot of problems with shazam--

green arrow i feel is 5-5 just because he can keep you in check with projectiles and is hard to punish up close... the only thing keeping it even is arrow's low damage as far as my experience goes-- its one of my least favorite mus, feels so tedious...

it's been a while since i've played a decent Shazam, but trait really fucks him. I can't really remember how the footsies game plays out though. Teleport away and zoning basically.

GA i'm not sure about, as i don't think i've ever played a good arrow on xbox live. Anyone?

 

[Espio]

I feel like Hawkgirl beats Zatanna 6-4. Hawkgirl's pressure is really strong against her and due to Zatanna's relatively weak footsies it amplifies Hawkgirl's up close game as Hawkgirl can pester her to death with mace charge, down 1, wing evade 3 etc.

Hawkgirl's trait and flight footsies allow her to zone, counterzone, and get in on Zatanna while simultaneously evading rings, puppet master and fire kiss. Not only does Hawkgirl beat Zatanna up close, but Hawkgirl's mobility allows her to get in easily and she has strong answers to deal with her zoning game. Mace charge can blow up behind and away teleports too.

Teleport and jump normals are an option, but can be blow up with divekick, trait normals or even mace charge if spaced well so that's always a guess/gamble.

Her trait can be annoying, but just like Zatanna's other forms of zoning, most options can be avoided with our own trait. Even absorb can be checked with MB mace toss. Trait in the corner is obnoxious though.

I dunno just my perspective, doesn't feel even to me and definitely not in Zatanna's favor, reminds me of Doomsday in a sense that they both outfootsie her and bully her up close and have strong options to get in quickly and ruin her fun.

 

[Phosferrax]

@EMPEROR_SunFire @Pan1cMode @deg222 @Anyone else

I find I'm struggling with the Flash MU, it's become a bit of an Achilles heel of mine. I'm not sure I'm playing it as efficiently as I could do. The real struggle for me is when flash gets into dash distance as I find I can't do much; teleporting back I feel is a bit of a bill because you just end up cornering yourself, jumping isn't too reliable and flashes b2 is nonsense. I just feel like the risk/reward favours Flash in the end up. I can zone him for a decade but he opens me up once (which isn't hard) and he's made up all that damage in one combo. Whereas, Zatanna really has a hard time opening patient players up in the neutral game.

This is my current thoughts and am completely open to whatever advice people have to offer.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

@EMPEROR_SunFire @Pan1cMode @deg222 @Anyone else

I find I'm struggling with the Flash MU, it's become a bit of an Achilles heel of mine. I'm not sure I'm playing it as efficiently as I could do. The real struggle for me is when flash gets into dash distance as I find I can't do much; teleporting back I feel is a bit of a bill because you just end up cornering yourself, jumping isn't too reliable and flashes b2 is nonsense. I just feel like the risk/reward favours Flash in the end up. I can zone him for a decade but he opens me up once (which isn't hard) and he's made up all that damage in one combo. Whereas, Zatanna really has a hard time opening patient players up in the neutral game.

This is my current thoughts and am completely open to whatever advice people have to offer.

I struggle against him a lot as well, In my opinion Flash beats Zatanna, and I found it out after playing a lot with great Flash players, getting in for Flash is not even hard, he can check any of our moves with lightning charge and he destroys Zatanna in the neutral, fireball is a bill wince he can punish it on reaction but most Flash players don't do it... I can't even believe this was seen as 6-4 Zatanna once lol. IMO 4-6, maybe I'm wrong but I feel she struggles a bita gainst him, it's not an uphill battle or anything but she has problem against characters that can be on her face and LBSH... Flash is the best at doing that.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I feel like Hawkgirl beats Zatanna 6-4. Hawkgirl's pressure is really strong against her and due to Zatanna's relatively weak footsies it amplifies Hawkgirl's up close game as Hawkgirl can pester her to death with mace charge, down 1, wing evade 3 etc.

Hawkgirl's trait and flight footsies allow her to zone, counterzone, and get in on Zatanna while simultaneously evading rings, puppet master and fire kiss. Not only does Hawkgirl beat Zatanna up close, but Hawkgirl's mobility allows her to get in easily and she has strong answers to deal with her zoning game. Mace charge can blow up behind and away teleports too.

Teleport and jump normals are an option, but can be blow up with divekick, trait normals or even mace charge if spaced well so that's always a guess/gamble.

Her trait can be annoying, but just like Zatanna's other forms of zoning, most options can be avoided with our own trait. Even absorb can be checked with MB mace toss. Trait in the corner is obnoxious though.

I dunno just my perspective, doesn't feel even to me and definitely not in Zatanna's favor, reminds me of Doomsday in a sense that they both outfootsie her and bully her up close and have strong options to get in quickly and ruin her fun.

Standing 3 is faster than flash's b2 and reaches just as far. 3~cards or 3~tele or 3~mb kicks. React to dashes with standing 3. Don't be afraid of the neutral.

If you're feeling pressured, jump back levi helps bait stuff out which you can whiff punish with divekick/j1/j2. Jumping in on flash is risky because his d2 is good, but Flash shouldn't be able to jump in on you either (your d2 should win and failing that ji1 air to air).

Try and slip into trait when you can since your +projectiles create some neat frame traps. Also, bait out the lightning charge and punish by either ducking the MB or by lightning cage. Flash will try and bait out lightning cage, but you can trick him by just using projectiles or 2~low spark or 2~tele or 1/2~df3.

I feel this is 5-5.