Match-up Discussion Batman Match-Up Discussion

[Soul Bound X]

I've met many people who say the same thing about Bane, then they realize the huge problem in the room of "what do I do now?"
Its better to know and be safe, than assume and be broken in half for 71%. I'm just saying if you need anything though lemme know. Any information is good information, after all.

yeah man thanks for helping people out. i was only saying that i think batman wins this one

 

[Doombawkz]

yeah man thanks for helping people out. i was only saying that i think batman wins this one

Sadly so You can zone us all day with batarangs and we can't do much about it. However on wake-up we have some options that are really hard to avoid, namely the command grab, the b.23, the f.2d, the d.1 double punch cancel... If we ever get that knockdown, you guys definitely need to know what options you have, otherwise you'll be stuck in knockdown for 21 seconds, give or take... And it only takes more or less 3 or 4 good reads from Bane to pull you from full to red, and all in all he can do it without having to leave level 1 venom.

The MU can be as in-your-favor from a distance as you want it to be, but once it comes down to oki and defence up close, that's what you need to have this kind of information for. Batman wins if he can keep Bane out. Once Bane gets in, its a whole different story.

 

[Soul Bound X]

Sadly so You can zone us all day with batarangs and we can't do much about it. However on wake-up we have some options that are really hard to avoid, namely the command grab, the b.23, the f.2d, the d.1 double punch cancel... If we ever get that knockdown, you guys definitely need to know what options you have, otherwise you'll be stuck in knockdown for 21 seconds, give or take... And it only takes more or less 3 or 4 good reads from Bane to pull you from full to red, and all in all he can do it without having to leave level 1 venom.

The MU can be as in-your-favor from a distance as you want it to be, but once it comes down to oki and defence up close, that's what you need to have this kind of information for. Batman wins if he can keep Bane out. Once Bane gets in, its a whole different story.

i wouldnt say a WHOLE different story. batman is a rush down beast up close too. this mu isn't terrrible for bane though. bane is a monster and can definately win.

 

[Doombawkz]

i wouldnt say a WHOLE different story. batman is a rush down beast up close too. this mu isn't terrrible for bane though. bane is a monster and can definately win.

Rush-down, yes. Defensive, not as much. What are your options on wake-up? Honestly you either get dipped by a pseudo-dash backbreaker, tucked by a b.23, or stuffed by a double punch, so its good to know what covers those bases. You might not know it, but yes...

Waking up vs a good Bane is a whole different experience than any other character since he has some of the best options AND the ability to scoop and dunk people with armored attacks for amounts in excess of 55% for 1 bar at level 2 venom, and 45% for 1 bar at level 1. Heck, the wrong wake-up in the corner makes for a 2-bar 81% combo with wake-up reset at level 3. You can never be too careful, since even small mistakes are hard to even out.

 

[Soul Bound X]

Rush-down, yes. Defensive, not as much. What are your options on wake-up? Honestly you either get dipped by a pseudo-dash backbreaker, tucked by a b.23, or stuffed by a double punch, so its good to know what covers those bases. You might not know it, but yes...

Waking up vs a good Bane is a whole different experience than any other character since he has some of the best options AND the ability to scoop and dunk people with armored attacks for amounts in excess of 55% for 1 bar at level 2 venom, and 45% for 1 bar at level 1. Heck, the wrong wake-up in the corner makes for a 2-bar 81% combo with wake-up reset at level 3. You can never be too careful, since even small mistakes are hard to even out.

i have slide . but i don't have to wake up at all.

 

[dust.]

Rush-down, yes. Defensive, not as much. What are your options on wake-up? Honestly you either get dipped by a pseudo-dash backbreaker, tucked by a b.23, or stuffed by a double punch, so its good to know what covers those bases. You might not know it, but yes...

Waking up vs a good Bane is a whole different experience than any other character since he has some of the best options AND the ability to scoop and dunk people with armored attacks for amounts in excess of 55% for 1 bar at level 2 venom, and 45% for 1 bar at level 1. Heck, the wrong wake-up in the corner makes for a 2-bar 81% combo with wake-up reset at level 3. You can never be too careful, since even small mistakes are hard to even out.

Wow thanks for all of the info. Are you on PSN? Would love to go up against a good Bane!

 

[Doombawkz]

i have slide . but i don't have to wake up at all.

Command grab, double punch, venom upper... Anything I have that gets armor beats your slide and gives me another wake-up chance. At level 3 I can do his f.2 parry and set up that free 71% off of your wake-up. And command grab says you have to do something, or else its another free wake-up on top of 18/23% for fun.

 

[SCPartisan]

Hey all, been playing against a Harley player a lot recently and wondering what type of options I have against her gunshots (been using trait to help get in/keep up with batarangs) and some of her strings on block (db3, f22/f23 + some of the cancels into bf3 slide).

I'm still pretty new to the game so a lot of things aren't clicking yet, but I've been trying to stay patient and come up with some strats I can at least understand/execute for now. Any ideas, suggestions or assistance would be greatly appreciated!

PS: Only skimmed through this thread so I apologize if there was something related already covered that I missed.

 

[Reptile Orion]

I've been struggling gaining a frame and hit advantage up close. It always seems like my opponents attacks connect first and then I'm stuck in a zoning chess match. I've been searching for Batman's attacks that give him a significant advantage. It seems a number of my opponents are simply using regular attacks to connnect. The situation has left me scratching my head.

I did some research (TYM Wiki) to see which of Batman's attacks have a hit advantage. Out of Batman's normal moves the flying kick, wheel kick, uppercut, and low hammerfist have a significant hit advantage. I hope I'm interpreting this data correctly.

Am I looking at this the right way? I'm also wondering other players strategies when dealing with zoners. I've got my combos down, special moves, and playstyle. I tend to alternate between a rushdown and a punishment mentality. I like to keep an opponent on their toes. But these concerns are weighing down my game.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts. We've got a great group of players on these forums. Thanks!

 

[dust.]

I've been struggling gaining a frame and hit advantage up close. It always seems like my opponents attacks connect first and then I'm stuck in a zoning chess match. I've been searching for Batman's attacks that give him a significant advantage. It seems a number of my opponents are simply using regular attacks to connnect. The situation has left me scratching my head.

I did some research (TYM Wiki) to see which of Batman's attacks have a hit advantage. Out of Batman's normal moves the flying kick, wheel kick, uppercut, and low hammerfist have a significant hit advantage. I hope I'm interpreting this data correctly.

Am I looking at this the right way? I'm also wondering other players strategies when dealing with zoners. I've got my combos down, special moves, and playstyle. I tend to alternate between a rushdown and a punishment mentality. I like to keep an opponent on their toes. But these concerns are weighing down my game.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts. We've got a great group of players on these forums. Thanks!

When looking at frame data, I think startup and advantage on block are the most important numbers. You have to know what moves startup the fastest so you can punish your opponents when they use unsafe attacks. There are other factors like range that come into play but that is the basic mindset you should have. When it comes to Batman, his fastest attack is st.1.

Now I'm not saying only use 1 to punish, but attacks like his flying kick (b3) and his wheel kick (f3) have a ton of startup so they are not optimal for punishing. His uppercut (d2) does come out really fast but it's range is horrible and won't lead to optimal combo damage. The low hammerfist (d3) is just a sweep and can lead to good wakeup because of it's hard knockdown, but why use that to punish when you can get a full combo with other options? Basically what I'm saying is if you want to get guaranteed combo punishes, use strings like 123, 113, or b113 since they come out fast and can lead to some good damage.

Everything that I've just said in that paragraph refers to punish situations. In the neutral game, utilizing his trait is essential. His trait can make everything safe and can give you significant advantage on many block strings. It can also be used to get in and create really ambiguous cross-up situations if you release them and jump over your opponent with j2. You can also get a lot of free throws since people are so scared once Batman has his bats out they will just block until you release them. There is much more you can do in the neutral with Batman but these are just some options.

You don't want to really zone too much with Batman, his batarangs do little damage and are pretty slow. That being said, his MB batarangs have a huge advantage on block and can let you get in much easier. Also, Batman has his trait which makes getting in way easier than most other characters so you should spam it as much as possible. With Batman, you definitely want to rushdown your opponent but know when to back off a play a bit patient.

Lots of stuff I wrote here and who knows if this stuff is even all correct lol. This is just the way I see Batman's character design and I hope it helps!

 

[Reptile Orion]

When looking at frame data, I think startup and advantage on block are the most important numbers. You have to know what moves startup the fastest so you can punish your opponents when they use unsafe attacks. There are other factors like range that come into play but that is the basic mindset you should have. When it comes to Batman, his fastest attack is st.1.

Now I'm not saying only use 1 to punish, but attacks like his flying kick (b3) and his wheel kick (f3) have a ton of startup so they are not optimal for punishing. His uppercut (d2) does come out really fast but it's range is horrible and won't lead to optimal combo damage. The low hammerfist (d3) is just a sweep and can lead to good wakeup because of it's hard knockdown, but why use that to punish when you can get a full combo with other options? Basically what I'm saying is if you want to get guaranteed combo punishes, use strings like 123, 113, or b113 since they come out fast and can lead to some good damage.

Everything that I've just said in this paragraph refers to punish situations. In the neutral game, utilizing his trait is essential. His trait can make everything safe and can give you significant advantage on many block strings. It can also be used to get in and create really ambiguous cross-up situations if you release them and jump over your opponent with j2. You can also get a lot of free throws since people are so scared once Batman has his bats out they will just block until you release them. There is much more you can do in the neutral with Batman but these are just some options.

You don't want to really zone too much with Batman, his batarangs do little damage and are pretty slow. That being said, his MB batarangs have a huge advantage on block and can let you get in much easier. Also, Batman has his trait which makes getting in way easier than most other characters so you should spam it as much as possible. With Batman, you definitely want to rushdown your opponent but know when to back off a play a bit patient.

Lots of stuff I wrote here and who knows if this stuff is even all correct lol. This is just the way I see Batman's character design and I hope it helps!

A ton of great info. Thanks for the thoughtful post. I think when I play later today I'll shift my playstyle to more of a rushdown approach and limit my batarang usage. At times I've had trouble connecting combos (1,2,3 etc.).

 

[Adam Todd]

Um... Level 3 venom Bane would be immune to your rangs, he is immune to most everything actually. Its the only thing we have to protect us
You must've fought some pretty bad Banes in your time, we are a... dying breed

Anyways if you guys have any questions or need any elseworld commentary on the Bane/Batman MU, feel free to tag me and I'll answer any questions and whatnot you might have.

Which of his moves beat out the rangs? I thought the venom level 3 only gives him 2 hits of super armor and the rangs hit 3 times. I saw a video about it on a Bane tutorial. I actually have been playing to Bane as well lol but never fought a Batman as him.

 

[Adam Todd]

I wanna hear how you guys have been fairing against Superman. Personally I'm not sure if the matchup is in our favor or Supes, but I've been having trouble dealing with his mixups. His F.23 and 223 strings are safe on block and push him away enough that our standing 1 is out of range. He can also end his strings with his low grab, but this scales his damage so I'd rather eat that then his overhead. Does Batman's J.2 leave him at any advantage on block either? I was getting beat out if I tried a string after landing.

 

[dust.]

I wanna hear how you guys have been fairing against Superman. Personally I'm not sure if the matchup is in our favor or Supes, but I've been having trouble dealing with his mixups. His F.23 and 223 strings are safe on block and push him away enough that our standing 1 is out of range. He can also end his strings with his low grab, but this scales his damage so I'd rather eat that then his overhead. Does Batman's J.2 leave him at any advantage on block either? I was getting beat out if I tried a string after landing.

Batman's j2 is -4 on block so it's safe, but if you try to stick something out right after then it will lose to pokes. Superman is pretty damn cheap so when he does those safe strings I'm thinking we have to push block. Since Batman has those t-rex arms it is better to just reset the situation. Staying around mid-screen neutral is the best situation for Bats since he can't keep up with full screen zoning and up close he will get stuck in those silly blockstrings. Always have bats out when approaching and it can be manageable.

TL;DR: Push block his block strings and try to stay around mid-screen distance and spam your trait!

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

At level 3 Bane is completely immune to Batarangs, Robot bats, and Grappling Hook.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Soul Bound X]

At level 3 Bane is completely immune to Batarangs, Robot bats, and Grappling Hook.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

batman still doesn't give a damn B)

 

[Adam Todd]

Batman's j2 is -4 on block so it's safe, but if you try to stick something out right after then it will lose to pokes. Superman is pretty damn cheap so when he does those safe strings I'm thinking we have to push block. Since Batman has those t-rex arms it is better to just reset the situation. Staying around mid-screen neutral is the best situation for Bats since he can't keep up with full screen zoning and up close he will get stuck in those silly blockstrings. Always have bats out when approaching and it can be manageable.

TL;DR: Push block his block strings and try to stay around mid-screen distance and spam your trait!

I will keep in this mind next time, thanks for the help. I wanna try to learn the matchup cause if I really wanna beat Supes, I just switch to Green Lantern lol

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Call me whatever, but i can do nothing against Black Adam.
Everything he does is safe and im trying to get in.

Help me please.

 

[Adam Todd]

Call me whatever, but i can do nothing against Black Adam.
Everything he does is safe and im trying to get in.

Help me please.

Black Adam has terrible Anti-Airs, utilize the double jump to close the gap and get in close, you can also use the air scatter bomb to stay in the air longer to avoid the ground lighting. Once you're in, rush him down, he doesn't have many good answers to Batman up close. If you have trait full screen, jump the lighting and release bats then link a grapple. Black Adam doesn't have many good lows so up close just block high, because he does have good overheads. I haven't really fought many Black Adams, least good ones, but I am picking up the character and can easily say his biggest short coming is lack of Anti-Airs, just be ready for any Dive kicks and Sky grapple or Up batarang them.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Black Adam has terrible Anti-Airs, utilize the double jump to close the gap and get in close, you can also use the air scatter bomb to stay in the air longer to avoid the ground lighting. Once you're in, rush him down, he doesn't have many good answers to Batman up close. If you have trait full screen, jump the lighting and release bats then link a grapple. Black Adam doesn't have many good lows so up close just block high, because he does have good overheads. I haven't really fought many Black Adams, least good ones, but I am picking up the character and can easily say his biggest short coming is lack of Anti-Airs, just be ready for any Dive kicks and Sky grapple or Up batarang them.

LOL No good AAs?

He divekicks me from the air every time. That, and his jump attacks have more priority than Batmans j2.

 

[Adam Todd]

LOL No good AAs?

He divekicks me from the air every time. That, and his jump attacks have more priority than Batmans j2.

I mean AA as Anti-Airs, what you're talking about are Air-to-Airs. Have you tried air scatter bombing him?

 

[Sage Leviathan]

I mean AA as Anti-Airs, what you're talking about are Air-to-Airs. Have you tried air scatter bombing him?

Im talking about both. I know terminology.

And why use Scatter? All that does is stop my own movement.
How do you beat the divekick? Or the Lightning Shock?

Im getting beaten by scrubs that normally wouldnt touch me simply because of Black Adam -.-

 

[dust.]

Call me whatever, but i can do nothing against Black Adam.
Everything he does is safe and im trying to get in.

Help me please.

Well how are you getting opened up by Black Adams? I don't have a ton of BA experience but I know that his divekick is not safe on block unless it hits at the perfect angle (I think around your feet) or unless its meter burned. Many of his specials become safe on block when meter burned.

However, one thing about Black Adam is that he has almost no lows other than his sweep and his little lightning bolt so when you are getting pressured close, just block high. I don't think he has great anti-air options so feel free to jump around for cross up attempts and knock him out of the air before he can divekick.

One more thing to note, Black Adam's trait does no hitstun or blockstun. I believe if you get hit by the orbs you will take damage regardless so there is no point in blocking them. A lot of BA's will take advantage of this and throw people that are just sitting and blocking while the orbs are out. So don't be afraid of them when he summons the orbs and just try to hit him out of it.

Don't try to zone against Black Adam and just rush that shit down as usual and you should be fine. But, be careful of his reversal move where he pounds the ground and shoots lightning into the sky or something like that. Lol sorry I don't know the name of the move but if he meter burns it it can turn into a ~50% combo. Try to bait it out and punish. Hope this helps!

 

[Adam Todd]

Im talking about both. I know terminology.

And why use Scatter? All that does is stop my own movement.
How do you beat the divekick? Or the Lightning Shock?

Im getting beaten by scrubs that normally wouldnt touch me simply because of Black Adam -.-

Usually when I found myself losing in the Air-to-air game, I would throw out scatter bomb and it usually wins out. Depening on the arc of BA's jump, when he dive kicks you could double jump and scatter bomb to be put out of his dive kick range but he should still get hit by the scatter bombs. Lighting strike has slow start up and you can jump over it, no need to try to beat it. If you play on PSN, I could help you out by running some sets with BA.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

How would you punish the DK?
b23 and f23 dont work, and he can jump before b1 hits him.