Match-up Discussion Baraka Match Up Discussion

[davidovitch]

I've played Baraka for a while recently (mostly online, mind you) and I'll add my thoughts about some of his tougher (IMO) matchups:

Noob: Noob's zoning really does destroy Baraka. Sure if you guess right a lot you can bait upknees and punish them but if Noob gets away from you good luck getting in. It really is tough against a good Noob (who will not just spam shadows but also dash forwards and backwards and delay his shadows to mess you up). I'd say 4-6 in Noob's favor.

JC: Just very tough. JC can do pretty much everything Baraka can only better. 4-6 JC favor.

BTW I don't feel that Kitana is such a tough match-up for Baraka (no harder than for any other character). And Cyrax is also very beatable to me with Raka. Kabal is a pain, though.

 

[Zoidberg747]

The chart looks about right.

I like the Sindel 5-5, his resets help him.

I think the Quan Chi matchup is right, but he does really kill Baraka building meter, tilting the matchup slightly I think. Isn't his projectile way better too?

That is mainly the number Shujinkydink and insuperable(Quan reps) had for him, so I went with it as well. Basically because of his frametraps and mixups Quan cannot really play his game. He can however use the skulls, which makes it 5-5 I think.

What are the thoughts on the Nightwolf matchup? His axe being so damn good?

Not really, it is more the fact that a blade charge is punished by shoulder, and you cannot spark at all without it being reflected. So you are forced to close in, but once there you have a slight advantage. However, since he does control the pace of the match, I have it in NWs favor.

The Liu Kang mu I thought was just 4-6. What's the reason for him not to just play his game?

His iAFs are not nearly as problematic as Kabal's. Baraka can dash block in and you can punish with a blade charge. They both have equally devastating frametraps, so it is kind of a battle of who gets in first. They both have great wall carry with b31 and b312, however Liu Kang at the wall only has 40% corner combos while Baraka has 30% combos that leave Liu reset. So basically it is 5-5 except for the fact that Liu can space Baraka out, making it 4.5-5.5

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

That is mainly the number Shujinkydink and insuperable(Quan reps) had for him, so I went with it as well. Basically because of his frametraps and mixups Quan cannot really play his game. He can however use the skulls, which makes it 5-5 I think.



Not really, it is more the fact that a blade charge is punished by shoulder, and you cannot spark at all without it being reflected. So you are forced to close in, but once there you have a slight advantage. However, since he does control the pace of the match, I have it in NWs favor.



His iAFs are not nearly as problematic as Kabal's. Baraka can dash block in and you can punish with a blade charge. They both have equally devastating frametraps, so it is kind of a battle of who gets in first. They both have great wall carry with b31 and b312, however Liu Kang at the wall only has 40% corner combos while Baraka has 30% combos that leave Liu reset. So basically it is 5-5 except for the fact that Liu can space Baraka out, making it 4.5-5.5

true come to think of it, good point!

 

[1man3letters]

His iAFs are not nearly as problematic as Kabal's. Baraka can dash block in and you can punish with a blade charge. They both have equally devastating frametraps, so it is kind of a battle of who gets in first. They both have great wall carry with b31 and b312, however Liu Kang at the wall only has 40% corner combos while Baraka has 30% combos that leave Liu reset. So basically it is 5-5 except for the fact that Liu can space Baraka out, making it 4.5-5.5

they are just as problematic imo,how are you punishing a iafb with charge if kang can block as sound as his feet tounch the ground? on b31 vs b312,on is full combo punishable one is not so baraka at yet another disadvantage there.
is not really a thing of who gets in 1st imo either as kang never needs to get win to win the match, build breaker and when raka gets it,break,rinse and repeat
kangs normals are better than barakas on number of levels as well and you will lose 90% air to airs with him because of his hitbox
its to much off disadvantage to raka to be only 4.5-5.5, its 4-6, i know the other reps input are important but we know baraka better than they do hence why this whole thing started the way it did with reps for each char

 

[1man3letters]

I actually think Sub beats Baraka. Maybe you need to learn the MU a bit better.

imho there couldnt be a more 5-5 matchup for baraka, i discussed why i know it is on sub forum but i dont really fancy opening that can of worms again, simply put who ever has the life lead controls the match but its easiser for baraka to take it back that it is for sub

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

imho there couldnt be a more 5-5 matchup for baraka, i discussed why i know it is on sub forum but i dont really fancy opening that can of worms again, simply put who ever has the life lead controls the match but its easiser for baraka to take it back that it is for sub

maybe online where... I can't dash block that stupid blade rush on reaction. He is JUST like Johnny Cage in this matchup. They both have a shitty projectile and a very fast forward moving move with armor. I still don't understand how you don't see the similarities of these two. I really just don't.
This has been discussed with THTB as well as yourself. It isn't like we don't hear what you are saying. The truth of the matter is that Sub has NO problem keeping Baraka's meter at bay, as well as keeping that one move at bay by simply dash blocking in and beating you with superior footsies.

Reed, sometimes you have to accept the fact that online, you can't react to certain things. Blade Charge is one of them. Along with Noob's shadows. Dash block in, don't jump. Use d4 and 2,2. If he likes to d4, block and do one back. everything he does outside of chop chop and blade charge whiffs if you just duck. He probably won't be doing d1~chopchop/charge, because then he gets blowed up.

 

[1man3letters]

maybe online where... I can't dash block that stupid blade rush on reaction. the life lead is nothing, because I'm going to stay on top of Baraka, regardless of life lead. Why should I let you sit full screen where you are comfortable?
This has been discussed with THTB as well as yourself. It isn't like we don't hear what you are saying. The truth of the matter is that Sub has NO problem keeping Baraka's meter at bay, as well as keeping that one move at bay by simply dash blocking in and beating you with superior footsies.

Reed, sometimes you have to accept the fact that online, you can't react to certain things. Blade Charge is one of them. Along with Noob's shadows. Dash block in, don't jump. Use d4 and 2,2. If he likes to d4, block and do one back. everything he does outside of chop chop and blade charge whiffs if you just duck. He probably won't be doing d1~chopchop/charge, because then he gets blowed up.

i never, repeat NEVER take online things into my view when talking about MUs, theres no point

baraka comfortable at full screen??? really thought it be better for sub to be there as baraka only has 1 option full screen against sub which is ex charge as spark is too risky
i also never said baraka wins the match through his meter, yes of course meter management in any match important but stopping ex charge wont just win sub the match and baraka has also not a problem keeping sub at bay as he has better footsies even with the clone
im not saying raka beats sub which was the thing certain sub players were making out i was saying in the thread but what i was saying was sub doesnt beat raka like what been said,its even,5-5

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

i never, repeat NEVER take online things into my view when talking about MUs, theres no point

baraka comfortable at full screen??? really thought it be better for sub to be there as baraka only has 1 option full screen against sub which is ex charge as spark is too risky
i also never said baraka wins the match through his meter, yes of course meter management in any match important but stopping ex charge wont just win sub the match and baraka has also not a problem keeping sub at bay as he has better footsies even with the clone
im not saying raka beats sub which was the thing certain sub players were making out i was saying in the thread but what i was saying was sub doesnt beat raka like what been said,its even,5-5

chill dude... i'm not attacking you at all. It isn't 5-5.
BTW, I appreciate your input. But Baraka does NOT have better footsie than Sub.

 

[1man3letters]

chill dude... i'm not attacking you at all. It isn't 5-5.
BTW, I appreciate your input. But Baraka does NOT have better footsie than Sub.

im more chill that your main my friend
well were all entitlied to our opinion, not going to bash you just cause you dont agree with mine. but im sure i have more vs sub exp than you have vs raka exp, just saying

 

[1man3letters]

*"Baraka, how the **** do you beat him?!?!" moved to baraka matchup discussion thread*

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

im more chill that your main my friend
well were all entitlied to our opinion, not going to bash you just cause you dont agree with mine. but im sure i have more vs sub exp than you have vs raka exp, just saying

I will agree to this. and you are right, we shouldn't bash each other at all .
I am just trying to help out my fellow SZ player as well, and having you to counter point is better than having someone who doesn't know the character at all.

 

[VOR]

His iAFs are not nearly as problematic as Kabal's. Baraka can dash block in and you can punish with a blade charge. They both have equally devastating frametraps, so it is kind of a battle of who gets in first. They both have great wall carry with b31 and b312, however Liu Kang at the wall only has 40% corner combos while Baraka has 30% combos that leave Liu reset. So basically it is 5-5 except for the fact that Liu can space Baraka out, making it 4.5-5.5

Someone who's good at doing iafb's still make it really hard for Baraka, he will eat a few low fireballs too. Then if you hit the bladecharge, you're just back to the same situation, with Liu building meter, throwing the fireballs at your face and feet. If you don't time and space the charge perfectly, you're getting a full punish or at least a free window for Liu Kang to start pressure. The pressure is on the Baraka player to get in, then when he does I really think Liu kang's normals and basic pressure game b312, 21, d3, f3 is easily superior to Baraka's. Liu Kang's wakeup game is kinda crappy and risky. Sure Baraka can reset him in the corner, but getting out of the corner vs. liu is tough for him. Way better zoning and way better pressure make it 4-6 imo. This is one of the 3 matchups I have the most exp. with along with Raiden and Rain thanks to ballsdeepfury if he wants to chime in.

 

[1man3letters]

Someone who's good at doing iafb's still make it really hard for Baraka, he will eat a few low fireballs too. Then if you hit the bladecharge, you're just back to the same situation, with Liu building meter, throwing the fireballs at your face and feet. If you don't time and space the charge perfectly, you're getting a full punish. The pressure is on the Baraka player to get in, then when he does I really think Liu kang's normals and basic pressure game b312, 21, d3, f3 is easily superior to Baraka's. Liu Kang's wakeup game is kinda crappy and risky. Sure Baraka can reset him in the corner, but getting out of the corner vs. liu is tough for him. Way better zoning and way better pressure make it 4-6 imo. This is one of the 3 matchups I have the most exp. with along with Raiden and Rain thanks to ballsdeepfury if he wants to chime in.

stop reading my mind and get out of my head

 

[Zoidberg747]

Alright I will bite and say the Liu matchup is 4-6, I was teetering on that anyway. I still think Sub has an advantage, albeit a VERY slight one.

 

[1man3letters]

so this is pretty much the close to final MU numbers Zoidberg747 and myself have come up with, also with helps from others reps

That is what we have agreed upon, lol. So updated chart:

Scorpion: 4.5-5.5
Liu Kang: 4-6
Kung Lao: 4-6
Sub Zero: 4.5-5.5
Sindel: 4.5-5.5
Ermac: 5-5
Reptile: 4-6
Kitana: 4-6
JC: 4-6
Jade: 6-4
Mileena: 5-5
Nightwolf: 4.5-5.5
Cyrax: 4-6
Noob: 4.5-5.5
Smoke: 5-5
Sektor: 4.5-5.5
Sonya: 4-6
Jax: 4-6
Kano: 5-5
Stryker: 4.5-5.5
Shang: 4.5-5.5
Kabal: 3-7
Raiden: 4-6
Sheeva: 6-4
Quan Chi: 5-5
Cyber sub: 5-5
Kenshi: 3.5-6.5
Rain: 4.5-5.5
Freddy: 4-6
Skarlett: 4-6

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

so this is pretty much the close to final MU numbers Zoidberg747 and myself have come up with, also with helps from others reps

That is what we have agreed upon, lol. So updated chart:

Scorpion: 4.5-5.5
Liu Kang: 4-6
Kung Lao: 4-6
Sub Zero: 4.5-5.5
Sindel: 4.5-5.5
Ermac: 5-5
Reptile: 4-6
Kitana: 4-6
JC: 4-6
Jade: 6-4
Mileena: 5-5
Nightwolf: 4.5-5.5
Cyrax: 4-6
Noob: 4.5-5.5
Smoke: 5-5
Sektor: 4.5-5.5
Sonya: 4-6
Jax: 4-6
Kano: 5-5
Stryker: 4.5-5.5
Shang: 4.5-5.5
Kabal: 3-7
Raiden: 4-6
Sheeva: 6-4
Quan Chi: 5-5
Cyber sub: 5-5
Kenshi: 3.5-6.5
Rain: 4.5-5.5
Freddy: 4-6
Skarlett: 4-6

Agreed. Prolly the most accurate MU chart for Raka thus far, though I still don't see how Smoke is 5-5. Baraka gets in for free with Blade Charge, and Smoke can't get out once Raka's in there.

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[Zoidberg747]

Agreed. Prolly the most accurate MU chart for Raka thus far, though I still don't see how Smoke is 5-5. Baraka gets in for free with Blade Charge, and Smoke can't get out once Raka's in there.

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Smoke away, EX shake, etc.

 

[1man3letters]

Agreed. Prolly the most accurate MU chart for Raka thus far, though I still don't see how Smoke is 5-5. Baraka gets in for free with Blade Charge, and Smoke can't get out once Raka's in there.

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yes true but as charge can messes up smoke, smoke can also mess up ex charge for a whiff punish if smokes away while at full screen,cant really be done on reaction but still.
raka can frame trap the life outta smoke when hes in because of this lack of armor,hes xray pretty poor also,
smoke has very good AA in standing 2(hitbox on the move crazy) so that that u should be jumping but smoke can get big damage from AAing, he also have a good footsies and whiff punishing game, his normals fair bit faster than rakas, ex shake can be a problem (ex charge beats it though,chop chop also)

in the past i also used to think it was rakas adv but the more and more i got offline matchup exp against high level smokes(yes europe has high level players also ) more my thinking changed to 5-5, people could say its adv smoke because of the reset but these have been confirmed taking out of the vita so it only matter of time till gone from consoles so not really taking them into account

 

[RTM2004]

Since BuryMeinBlack doesn't post here on TYM. Who are the hardest match ups for Baraka? Since most of them are 4-4.5 for Baraka but most of those on the list are manageable. I've seen BuryMeinBlack struggled the most against Kabal, Kenshi, Freddy, Jade and Sindel. So basically zoning characters that control the entire screen with high, mid and low projectiles along with a knockdown zoning move that spaces them out (Example: Kenshi's Spirit Charge, Sindel's Cartwheel etc). Baraka is no way the worst in the game, lethal up close but he's gets zoned out pretty bad without meter.. still very dangerous especially the corner!

 

[1man3letters]

Since BuryMeinBlack doesn't post here on TYM. Who are the hardest match ups for Baraka? Since most of them are 4-4.5 for Baraka but most of those on the list are manageable. I've seen BuryMeinBlack struggled the most against Kabal, Kenshi, Freddy, Jade and Sindel. So basically zoning characters that control the entire screen with high, mid and low projectiles along with a knockdown zoning move that spaces them out (Example: Kenshi's Spirit Charge, Sindel's Cartwheel etc). Baraka is no way the worst in the game, lethal up close but he's gets zoned out pretty bad without meter.. still very dangerous especially the corner!

jade a bad MU for raka? its 6-4 in his favor
same with sindel,not a bad MU, raka only loses that 4.5-5.5

imo raka top 5 worst 5 matchups are this
kabal
freddy
kenshi
radien
kung lao

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

jade a bad MU for raka? its 6-4 in his favor
same with sindel,not a bad MU, raka only loses that 4.5-5.5

imo raka top 5 worst 5 matchups are this
kabal
freddy
kenshi
radien
kung lao

I'd say Kabal, Kenshi, Freddy and Raiden are correct, but KL isn't that bad really. IMO I'd say Sonya is worse just because she's a pain to play footsies with because of the constant threat of dive kick.

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[1man3letters]

I'd say Kabal, Kenshi, Freddy and Raiden are correct, but KL isn't that bad really. IMO I'd say Sonya is worse just because she's a pain to play footsies with because of the constant threat of dive kick.

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yea id take that alright, good point
think kung got put in as 5th really just because was talking to someone about kung when made that message, sonya could easier be put there instead

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

yea id take that alright, good point
think kung got put in as 5th really just because was talking to someone about kung when made that message, sonya could easier be put there instead

I mean you can make a case for either one really. I just feel that Sonya has all the tools to beat Baraka. Dive Kick to beat D+4 and whiffed normals, EN Kartwheel is a major problem, she can zone well, D+4 into MS. She's just a nightmare for Baraka. Kung Lao's not easy either though. His Spin and Hat nerfs made this matchup very manageable now imho.

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[Zoidberg747]

I'd say Kabal, Kenshi, Freddy and Raiden are correct, but KL isn't that bad really. IMO I'd say Sonya is worse just because she's a pain to play footsies with because of the constant threat of dive kick.

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THANK YOU. Im telling you 1man, KL is not as bad as you think it is

All the others are completely correct though.

 

[1man3letters]

THANK YOU. Im telling you 1man, KL is not as bad as you think it is

All the others are completely correct though.

again zoid i ask you to please keep whats said in pm's in pm's

we were discussing our opinions,not a contest on who was right