Baraka General Discussion

[asddgd]

More damage than f4 into chop chop?

Yes

 

[KaiserWolf]

Yes

Awesome thanks! I'll have to try it out

 

[4x4lo8o]

Is there a Baraka discord I could get in on? TYM is awfully sparse on content these days


I'm playing Bone Picker exclusively. This character is so much fun. Using d3 on hit to jail in 11 and then hit/block confirming into a tick throw or a combo never gets old.

 

[Espio]

I don't know if this is known or not, but Baraka's forward 4 has very variable block stun and with it you can do some cool things like make his forward 4 up to plus 2 on block which is pretty fantastic. You can also make it -1 or 0 on block instead of the base -2 frames, I think this is incredibly strong since he has so many safe on block strings, mids and in bone picker command grab shines since you can condition and set up throws. Marauder has such strong damage that it also heavily benefits too.

I've never seen anyone talking about this so I assume/hope this is new and useful.

Is there a Baraka discord I could get in on? TYM is awfully sparse on content these days


I'm playing Bone Picker exclusively. This character is so much fun. Using d3 on hit to jail in 11 and then hit/block confirming into a tick throw or a combo never gets old.

I mean there is, but I didn't have much interest in it personally. I didn't stay. I'd rather just post content like above and share it or what have you, I didn't see anything too awe inspiring there.

 

[4x4lo8o]

I'd rather post here too, but it just seems like there's not much happening and I don't to post into the abyss if no one's reading it lol. I guess it's not that bad. Just not as much quality gameplay content as I remember back in the day.

I don't know if this is known or not, but Baraka's forward 4 has very variable block stun and with it you can do some cool things like make his forward 4 up to plus 2 on block which is pretty fantastic. You can also make it -1 or 0 on block instead of the base -2 frames, I think this is incredibly strong since he has so many safe on block strings, mids and in bone picker command grab shines since you can condition and set up throws. Marauder has such strong damage that it also heavily benefits too.

I can't watch the video right now, is this by spacing it out and making it really meaty or is it some other tech? Sounds pretty good.

In Bone Picker what I've been doing with f4 is option selecting into spikes. f4~spikes is better on hit or block than f44. On block it spaces you out a bit more(and is less negative?) and on hit does better damage and gives a way better knockdown than f44. You can do f4~db34 and you'll get spikes if it connects but if whiffs the second hit of the string will come out and often catch people trying to whiff punish. I'll have to mess with raw f4 some. I always thought f4 was pretty negative

 

[4x4lo8o]

I recently realized that someone trying to flawless block 112 or f212 will also basically option select a tick throw of those strings. I'm pretty unhappy about it, it's a really strong option against a mix up I was relying on a lot. I haven't figured out the best way to deal with it yet

 

[denuke]

I recently realized that someone trying to flawless block 112 or f212 will also basically option select a tick throw of those strings. I'm pretty unhappy about it, it's a really strong option against a mix up I was relying on a lot. I haven't figured out the best way to deal with it yet

could u please explain how they can OS it? only way is to duck, no?

 

[denuke]

Espio, that is kool skin. Is that default with select button?
And it would be nice to see some of your gameplay. I play bone picker as a noob, like to control the distance. And do you, guys, connect lunge after raw spikes? Feels hard to do.

 

[4x4lo8o]

could u please explain how they can OS it? only way is to duck, no?

Yeah, if they just crouch block the 11/f21 and then let go of block to get the flawless block they'll end up neutral crouching the command grab.

 

[denuke]

Yeah, if they just crouch block the 11/f21 and then let go of block to get the flawless block they'll end up neutral crouching the command grab.

Yea, good to know. But you beat it canceling into (amp) sparks or spine burst. Spikes move is safe -7 and distance. Spikes is 9 frames and should beat FB attempt of 112(17f last hit) and f212(21f). Sparks is 16f and could work with f21.
P.S. Just labed it, Spine burst hits, looks like usual throw also works after 2 hits, sparks not a good option.

P.S.2 that f4~db34 OS works man! And its easy, just sliding finger toward 4. How did you find it out? Are you on ps4?

 

[4x4lo8o]

Yeah 112~spikes will blow up a flawless block u2 from most characters(it trades with Sonya, dunno if anyone else has a really good u2 like that). It works on a read. It's technically unsafe on block since spikes is a high but I think it'll be awhile before anyone blows that up. It might be better just to stagger. f212 isn't special cancelabe so I guess the best bet there is a stagger or to do f21~spikes and get rid of the gap if you think they're trying to flawless block.

P.S.2 that f4~db34 OS works man! And its easy, just sliding finger toward 4. How did you find it out? Are you on ps4?

I dunno. Just thinking about footsies I knew I wanted f4~spikes on hit and f44 on whiff and it seemed obvious to try. I used something similar with Ares back in Injustice 1 and I think that's kind of a general fighting game technique.

I'm on Xbox unfortunately


You mentioned having trouble hitting with grab after spikes, are you talking about knocking them down with spikes(as a combo ender or just by itself) and then hitting lunge on wake up? Or are you looking at a combo somewhere?
If you're talking about on wake up your problem is probably that spikes has so much knockdown advantage that you're doing the command grab too early. If you did grab on the first frame available it'll whiff because they're still on the ground/getting up and not vulnerable yet. You have to wait 15 frames or so. I highly recommend any Bone Picker player go into the lab and practicing the timing after knockdown with spikes and blood lunge. Both are super long knockdowns. You have lots of time to do stuff and it's easy to get yourself blown by attacking too soon before it's possible for them to get up.

 

[denuke]

No, from beginning I was talking about 11+spikes and f21+spikes and f21,11-throw. Not after full string. Labing right now again.
f21+spikes always hits(jailing into high), even on females. 11+spikes whiffs sometimes.. hitboxes are really unique for every character.

Btw after 112 spikes whiffs on just normal permanent block, so thats bad idea.

And you know what I found out? All 2 hit strings into spikes is not -7(like after f4), but from -4 up to 0 depending on the starting distance. B31+spikes is always 0,-1 or -2, but whiffs on crouch block ON FEMALES. And far raw spikes could be even +2))) Holy shit, this move is safe AF. 12+spikes is 0 or -1.

And lunge after spikes.. I mean when they jump on you and you spikes on reaction there is a way to catch them with raw lunge before they hit ground. Depends on distance, if they right above can confirm into f21+lunge. I saw similar connect on VLJV stream 122KB- dash+4+spikes-lunge combo(not corner). Or f4 instead of dash4 for 314 damage. Minus is pause here. Cannot do with dash4 myself. Should be optimal. I use J2+112+lunge follow up for 122.


I also want to test 21+3 string online. Its very tricky. Has crazy pushback on hit and block +1. Catching whiff punishers with second mid. Kicks to full screen, good vs no zoning tools chars like Jackie or Jax.

P.S. also learned today to put tv in game mode to reduce input lag from 60 to 25ms

 

[4x4lo8o]

but whiffs on crouch block ON FEMALES

God damn it NRS. I thought maybe they'd finally gotten over the wonky character dependent hitbox stuff.

Spikes is good. I've started using it in neutral a decent amount. It's fast, it catches jumpers, and it tends to catch people using forward advancing moves. I don't have any advice for comboing after using it to aa though. I usually just mash command grab and usually it hits. I know I can combo better in certain ranges, especially cross ups, but Im not there yet

 

[denuke]

I guess for cross up kick not cornered 112+lunge. And jump to cornered opponent can be up to four D1 and then 112+lunge.
What do you mean mash grab? after spikes? really inputing bf2 many times, it works?
I have another issue, online I connect f44KB+grab only 50%, offline like all 100%. Maybe mashing also helps here))

 

[ismael4790]

I recently realized that someone trying to flawless block 112 or f212 will also basically option select a tick throw of those strings. I'm pretty unhappy about it, it's a really strong option against a mix up I was relying on a lot. I haven't figured out the best way to deal with it yet

Yes. Labbed that a while ago, mixups from f212 are completely OSable. You can cover 3 options (f21~spikes, f212 and f21~cmd grab) with same motion. It's a fake mix specially offline. Many people will keep falling into that until the end of time, though.
Options from 112 are harder to cover all at once but I think it can also be done. Also, a problem is 11~spikes even has a gap larger enough to poke (so poke after 11 is an answer that covers both spikes and cmd grab).
Imo maybe his best trick is 1~lunge / 112, I don't think that can be OSed. Anyway, with a careful and unpredictable use, you can always catch people with his other ticks. Spikes is arguably his best move.

I like the variation, had success with him, but imo he's not viable as a solo main. He has to make many good reads for little payoff and gets blown up if he's wrong. Also, his damage output midscreen is not scary. This puts him in a bad situation vs characters with higher damage output or that can get good damage off mixups that he can't properly punish if guesses right. Imo this variation works well if you combine it with having Marauder by your side, which is the good punisher. Bonepicker excels at spacing but pays it pretty hard lacking in other areas.

I'm looking forward to nrs adding a third variation that includes the leg kebab maybe combined with spikes. This would complete the character, since he would have the damage variation (Marauder), the spacing one (Bone Picker) and the 50/50 one.

 

[denuke]

ismael4790, on practice these fake mix ups work on my level mostly, and 1+lunge is usually an epic fail just because 1 hits.
I doubt they will use the same move in third variation.
Agree with everything else though.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Yes. Labbed that a while ago, mixups from f212 are completely OSable. You can cover 3 options (f21~spikes, f212 and f21~cmd grab) with same motion. It's a fake mix specially offline. Many people will keep falling into that until the end of time, though.
Options from 112 are harder to cover all at once but I think it can also be done. Also, a problem is 11~spikes even has a gap larger enough to poke (so poke after 11 is an answer that covers both spikes and cmd grab).
Imo maybe his best trick is 1~lunge / 112, I don't think that can be OSed. Anyway, with a careful and unpredictable use, you can always catch people with his other ticks. Spikes is arguably his best move.

I like the variation, had success with him, but imo he's not viable as a solo main. He has to make many good reads for little payoff and gets blown up if he's wrong. Also, his damage output midscreen is not scary. This puts him in a bad situation vs characters with higher damage output or that can get good damage off mixups that he can't properly punish if guesses right. Imo this variation works well if you combine it with having Marauder by your side, which is the good punisher. Bonepicker excels at spacing but pays it pretty hard lacking in other areas.

Have you messed with staggering 11 and going into other stuff. Do 11, d4 or 11, b3 or something? In theory I would think that if they're looking for the flawless block they shouldn't be able to react, but I don't have enough experience again people who are flawless blocking consistently to really know.


I agree that he's got a problem against high damage characters. It's really hard to win when you have to hit them 15 times to end the round and all they need is 2 combos and a projectile. Sub Zero and Liu Kang in particular give me problems. I'll be wailing on them, controlling the match, and then all of a sudden it's over and I lost. There's so much match up knowledge I don't have though. I know for a fact that Kang players are getting away with murder and I'm letting them, but it's just a match up I haven't had a chance to lab out yet. I should do that this weekend.
I do kinda wish Bone Picker had an amplify on spikes or blood lunge. Not even a launcher, just something that adds an extra hit onto it that adds a little more damage. Maybe amp Blood Lunge could side switch or something. There's just too many times when I have full meter, they have 20% health left and you land a hit midscreen and just can't quite finish the match and have to take risks to get that last 5% of their bar

 

[Espio]

Espio, that is kool skin. Is that default with select button?
And it would be nice to see some of your gameplay. I play bone picker as a noob, like to control the distance. And do you, guys, connect lunge after raw spikes? Feels hard to do.

Thank you, I love it especially with my mask and glowing blue blades completes it for me. I just tried it and it is the alt color for what looks like his primary costume.

Baraka is my co-main so I'll be uploading stuff with him periodically if you want to follow it, I love this character and how he allows me to play MK11. I have a more nuanced set against another Skarlet, but I'll be trying to get different match ups uploaded as I learn them, I have no complaints so far. I used to play him in the betas and loved him but I always included the safe low stab with command grab so he was extra wild.


I never try to do command grab after raw spikes.


Also the true advantage of lunge still comes from making being at mid range a 50/50. You can remove the overhead from the equation and have forward 4,4, versus lunge at any of those ranges where the opponent has to make a choice this is especially potent since Forward 4 can be made plus and forward 4,4, has a crushing blow attached that can lead to solid damage. Add in his -2 sweep with near round star range and his overhead and you're cooking.

Not to mention you can stagger into other strings or walk back and bait a whiff, there's too many layers to get hung up. I was fighting that Skarlet player above and in one of the matches he does a down 2 to anticipate my lunge, but I walked towards him and did nothing and walked back and whiff punished him with the overhead. Sometimes you're gonna guess wrong, but if you do your job correctly you'll have strong moments like that.

 

[ismael4790]

Have you messed with staggering 11 and going into other stuff. Do 11, d4 or 11, b3 or something? In theory I would think that if they're looking for the flawless block they shouldn't be able to react, but I don't have enough experience again people who are flawless blocking consistently to really know.


I agree that he's got a problem against high damage characters. It's really hard to win when you have to hit them 15 times to end the round and all they need is 2 combos and a projectile. Sub Zero and Liu Kang in particular give me problems. I'll be wailing on them, controlling the match, and then all of a sudden it's over and I lost. There's so much match up knowledge I don't have though. I know for a fact that Kang players are getting away with murder and I'm letting them, but it's just a match up I haven't had a chance to lab out yet. I should do that this weekend.
I do kinda wish Bone Picker had an amplify on spikes or blood lunge. Not even a launcher, just something that adds an extra hit onto it that adds a little more damage. Maybe amp Blood Lunge could side switch or something. There's just too many times when I have full meter, they have 20% health left and you land a hit midscreen and just can't quite finish the match and have to take risks to get that last 5% of their bar

Yep, staggers can be useful of course. Even b3 staggers since they are afraid of the lunge. However, again the char is built around micro reads and high risk little reward which I think it will always hold him back in many matchups, as we said.

I also think spikes could benefit from having a mb version. Maybe a launching one that gives a lunge continuation, or does dot. Also, a mb lunge that does some additional damage or dot would make his correct reads more rewarding when he has meter.

 

[denuke]

Espio hi, thanks for new video vs Kollector.
Could you please make few points for me clear:
1. This and last set I never saw you doing 122KB. 340 damage or d2 if he has meter.
2. You never buffer lunge into JIK. It works on hit and any block. Its 200 damage. Most profitable tool on my level. Maybe mix it with pokes after JIK good idea?
3. After landing D3 you usually go for B31. Why 14f if it jails and you can do 7f 11+..?
4. You do D4 more often then B4, why? B4 has longer reach, 1f faster and 40 more damage. I thought lunge is good against wakeups and has KB, so why not?
5. I like how good spikes work without using them, so nobody jumps on you. But why dont you use it with strings?
6. I like your reactions on throws teching. Unlike me you can easily confirm f21 and 11 into lunge on block or other specials on hit.
7. Who is your main and why baraka compliments it, what matchups you prefer it over? Thanks.

 

[Shanedawg1995]

How does everyone get punished for blocked foward 4 .I get thrown 80 percent of the time.Is foward 4 chop chop safe and am I doing foward 44 instead!

 

[4x4lo8o]

@Espio You play Bone Picker exactly opposite from the way I do. Why don't you ever use Blood Lunge on oki?


Protip: After a Blood Lunge knockdown, do backdash into Blood Lunge. Blows up most wake ups, blows up blocking, and blows up people who see you back dash and decide to press buttons

 

[Rpgz]

good advice Ive been using b4 on oki for KL....it catches a lot of ppl by surprise. but bdash BL sounds great!

 

[4x4lo8o]

Also the true advantage of lunge still comes from making being at mid range a 50/50. You can remove the overhead from the equation and have forward 4,4, versus lunge at any of those ranges where the opponent has to make a choice this is especially potent since Forward 4 can be made plus and forward 4,4, has a crushing blow attached that can lead to solid damage. Add in his -2 sweep with near round star range and his overhead and you're cooking.

I don't believe this is a 50/50 offline. If you're at max range of Blood Lunge and you're mixing up between f44 and Lunge they can absolutely block/neutral crouch that mix up on reaction. I think off them as footsies tools that complement each other. You condition them to look for one, then once they're looking for that you hit them with the other. If they're looking for both you walk up and hit them with other stuff. They're also super good as a sort of pseudo - punish where your opponents whiffs something or does something that's negative but you can't get a real punish. You use f4 if they're trying to press buttons, you use lunge if they want to "wait their turn" and just block. In general this is where I think lunge is really good. This game doesn't have a bunch of crazy back dashes and armored move and endless pressure - there's lots of situations where your best option is just to block and wait for your turn to move and blood lunge is good for making them scared to wait for their turn. Then when they start pressing button when they shouldn't Baraka is really well equipped to blow that up.

I think probably we're mostly talking about the same type of strategy and I'm just being pedantic, but I just take issue with calling it a 50/50, which should be reserved for true, unreactable guessing situations

 

[denuke]

@Espio You play Bone Picker exactly opposite from the way I do. Why don't you ever use Blood Lunge on oki?


Protip: After a Blood Lunge knockdown, do backdash into Blood Lunge. Blows up most wake ups, blows up blocking, and blows up people who see you back dash and decide to press buttons

Yep thats how I also try to play. As Rpgz said B4 is also good to mix it with on oki. Its distance is safe from most U3. Do you input BBBF2 or BBF2? But people like to delay a lot, so I usually walk back and wait for delay.