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Are we one step closer to getting custom variations for competitive play?

Vslayer

I'm a gril
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Why is it even a question at this point because,

a) both Tyler and Derek have said multiple times in Kombat Kasts that they're looking at implementing this in tournaments
b) they're showing moves on the load screen now (something I believe people here have suggested multiple times)

y'all, it's happening.
 
Look if they bring in customs then it better come with a big balance patch. I ain't trying to play someone's super character when they apparently already nerfed scorpion's misery blade
 

Enexemander

The Count of Monte Fisto
I think if NRS is serious about having a longer lifespan for this game than in the past, kustom variation tournament play is a must (or so many different tournament variations that it might as well be the same thing.)
Right now a lot of people just don't want to learn all the kustom moves and what they mean in a match up. Understandable, this early, but ultimately that's a failure to learn, adapt, and improve.
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
The people STILL rather keep these tournament variations and defending it for their sense of "balance" over customs is fucking hilarious at this point. You really want to kill off your playerbase dont you? You really want this place to be dead AGAIN just like how InJ2 was dont you? Well thats what the fuck is gonna happen if these tournament variations rock because people are gonna get sick of playing them and will already be asking for MK12. But go off with your talk about balance because that argument is so fucking tired! I'd rather have a fun game everybody can enjoy that our scene can be proud of. Customs did just that and then some! If you don't see that now, I'm calling you Stevie Wonder from now on!
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Premium Supporter
I ain't trying to play someone's super character
I would like to see examples of these mysterious “super characters” people keep mentioning. With the current slot costs and move combination restrictions, I just don’t foresee any brokenness any time soon. It seems like NRS has already put a lot of thought into balancing the custom abilities. It’s a shame all that effort is being wasted with these tournament variation restrictions.

I want to see more variety.
 
Reactions: JTC

Xelz

Go over there!
MvC3 was loved because it was cartoony and wacky and broken. That’s not afforded to NRS games. We already know what the reaction is both inside and outside of the community when our game is broken, and it’s not pretty.

In fact, not even SFV can live that way, as their own community would rip it to shreds if it had marvel-esque levels of brokenness.

It’s just a bad comparison.
And I’d argue that MvC3 got away with it because it’s so damn fun, which is the point of a video game in the first place. But SFV is ridiculed for being a bit of a bore, so they have to rely more on balance to keep the game relevant. At the moment, MK11 is having to choose between more fun and easier to balance.

But I’ll bite, and let’s assume the NRS scene is more toxic and will complain more than the MvC player base. So what level of imperfect balance is acceptable to appease the vocal majority asking for custom variations? Because the argument against custom variations still rests on the assumption that NRS isn’t talented enough to pull off proper game balance. But we still haven’t defined, realistically, what proper game balance is.
 
The people STILL rather keep these tournament variations and defending it for their sense of "balance" over customs is fucking hilarious at this point. You really want to kill off your playerbase dont you? You really want this place to be dead AGAIN just like how InJ2 was dont you? Well thats what the fuck is gonna happen if these tournament variations rock because people are gonna get sick of playing them and will already be asking for MK12. But go off with your talk about balance because that argument is so fucking tired! I'd rather have a fun game everybody can enjoy that our scene can be proud of. Customs did just that and then some! If you don't see that now, I'm calling you Stevie Wonder from now on!
come on now customs won't affect the livespan of this game. it's not like the game absolutely relys on them and is unplayable without it. is there anyone who thinks "oh mk11 no customs no buy!"?
 
I would like to see examples of these mysterious “super characters” people keep mentioning. With the current slot costs and move combination restrictions, I just don’t foresee any brokenness any time soon. It seems like NRS has already put a lot of thought into balancing the custom abilities. It’s a shame all that effort is being wasted with these tournament variation restrictions.

I want to see more variety.
I don't remember exactly in the beta but it was like, kabal: air hook ndc and extended hook; baraka: gutted spike explosion
 

Xelz

Go over there!
come on now customs won't affect the livespan of this game. it's not like the game absolutely relys on them and is unplayable without it. is there anyone who thinks "oh mk11 no customs no buy!"?
It probably won't affect their decision to buy the base game, but will it affect customer retention and their decision to buy DLC, keep the online community alive, watch streams, etc.? The honest answer is we don't know yet because no developer has tried custom load outs in the FGC. But we've seen plenty of evidence in other genres. CoD took over the FPS market with custom load outs. LoL (and the MOBA genre in general) steamrolled Blizzard and the traditional RTS with customizable stats and mid-game character move selections.

As a general rule, players stick around longer when they feel they can express themselves by customizing their gameplay. Plus it adds a strategic meta that keeps people mentally invested for longer, too.
 
It probably won't affect their decision to buy the base game, but will it affect customer retention and their decision to buy DLC, keep the online community alive, watch streams, etc.? The honest answer is we don't know yet because no developer has tried custom load outs in the FGC. But we've seen plenty of evidence in other genres. CoD took over the FPS market with custom load outs. LoL (and the MOBA genre in general) steamrolled Blizzard and the traditional RTS with customizable stats and mid-game character move selections.

As a general rule, players stick around longer when they feel they can express themselves by customizing their gameplay. Plus it adds a strategic meta that keeps people mentally invested for longer, too.
We're maybe seeing some signs of this with the Shang release. People were excited to play with the ninja transformations and other moves shown in the trailer, and are now bummed out they "can't use them" since they're not in tournament variations...regardless of the fact that they can still use them in many modes, the perception exists is that something isn't "legit" unless you can use it in Ranked. Do you think that experience changes how they view the next character reveal trailer? Does it affect their decision to purchase the next character?
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
It probably won't affect their decision to buy the base game, but will it affect customer retention and their decision to buy DLC, keep the online community alive, watch streams, etc.? The honest answer is we don't know yet because no developer has tried custom load outs in the FGC. But we've seen plenty of evidence in other genres. CoD took over the FPS market with custom load outs. LoL (and the MOBA genre in general) steamrolled Blizzard and the traditional RTS with customizable stats and mid-game character move selections.

As a general rule, players stick around longer when they feel they can express themselves by customizing their gameplay. Plus it adds a strategic meta that keeps people mentally invested for longer, too.
Gun loadouts I can see but comparing MOBA items or talents to special moves in a FG is kind of a silly comparison. Two completely different games for a number of reasons.

Your overall point is fair, more skill expression tends to mean a longer lifespan. But it also has to be reasonably balanced. MKX died very quickly because while there was a lot of offensive options and cool stuff to do, everyone was unfun to play against and people got tired of it quickly. I highly doubt custom variations will be completely balanced if they do ok them, but that just means they need to balance them out with conflicts and other ways (if custom variations is the road they want to go down).
 

Xelz

Go over there!
Gun loadouts I can see but comparing MOBA items or talents to special moves in a FG is kind of a silly comparison. Two completely different games for a number of reasons.

Your overall point is fair, more skill expression tends to mean a longer lifespan. But it also has to be reasonably balanced. MKX died very quickly because while there was a lot of offensive options and cool stuff to do, everyone was unfun to play against and people got tired of it quickly. I highly doubt custom variations will be completely balanced if they do ok them, but that just means they need to balance them out with conflicts and other ways (if custom variations is the road they want to go down).
Agreed, it's a difficult comparison to make. It's true that these features helped those games cement a massive and durable player base, but their success doesn't mean it will work in a fighting game.

That said, I also remember when players felt that a consistent, level playing field was instrumental in the FPS genre. Unreal Tournament, Halo, etc. all gave players equal abilities, all guns worked the exact same, etc. CoD broke the golden rule and let players choose not just different starting weapons (and load out those weapons differently), but also select different abilities, like avoid radar detection, improved hip shot accuracy, use different killstreak abilities, etc. And this is another genre where fractions of a second determine winning or losing.

If NRS gets this to work in a fighting game, they could disrupt and evolve the genre the way we've seen other genre's improve over the past decade.
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Premium Supporter
baraka: gutted spike explosion
Pretty sure that’s a tournament variation. So if it is so broken, why isn’t it being exploited? I don’t see anyone playing Baraka much.

Or if it’s not broken, then... they fixed it?

Either way, my point is made.

EDIT: No it’s not. I am ass. Don’t know what I was thinking.
 
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They should just put a little switch on the Kombat League for tournament variations or customs like the other modes. Problem solved.

(But still fix damage scaling and remove broken ability combinations that arise.)
 
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Pretty sure that’s a tournament variation. So if it is so broken, why isn’t it being exploited? I don’t see anyone playing Baraka much.

Or if it’s not broken, then... they fixed it?

Either way, my point is made.
I haven't seen gutted with the exploding back spikes from a tournament baraka so don't go throwin out, "pretty sures." it just has to be stronger then what the character is intended to be.
 

JTC

From the Depths
ok but i don't know what has happened to those moves since the beta. he has all of those spread out in his tournament variations and they seem unchanged
Youre talking about "overpowered" characters in a beta version of the game with like 5 characters in it which is still a work in progress. Yet erron black has all his best moves in one variation but its ok because NRS said so.

Sound logic.
 
Youre talking about "overpowered" characters in a beta version of the game with like 5 characters in it which is still a work in progress. Yet erron black has all his best moves in one variation but its ok because NRS said so.

Sound logic.
you're literally just letting shit fall out your mouth. I know it was a beta. I also admitted to not knowing what happened to these abilities post-beta since I don't keep up with them since some of them are not tournament moves. I believe kabal was able to equip all of said moves and become a super character but I'm not sure. Why would I defend erron black being as good as he is? come on now
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Pretty sure that’s a tournament variation. So if it is so broken, why isn’t it being exploited? I don’t see anyone playing Baraka much.

Or if it’s not broken, then... they fixed it?

Either way, my point is made.
It's definitely not a tourney variation lmao.

Variation 1 : Gutted Baraka Barrage
Variation 2 : Blood Lunge Spines

Baraka would get a bunch of 50/50s and maybe even restands IIRC if he gets to use leg kabob though.
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Premium Supporter
I haven't seen gutted with the exploding back spikes from a tournament baraka so don't go throwin out, "pretty sures." it just has to be stronger then what the character is intended to be.
Nah you’re right, I had it mixed up. My fault.
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Premium Supporter
It's definitely not a tourney variation lmao.

Variation 1 : Gutted Baraka Barrage
Variation 2 : Blood Lunge Spines

Baraka would get a bunch of 50/50s and maybe even restands IIRC if he gets to use leg kabob though.
Yep just caught that. Not sure what I was thinking of.