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Are we one step closer to getting custom variations for competitive play?

STOP! Already making a non issue an issue. This will better the playerbase, better the lifespan of the game as a whole! This a small price to pay to bring this game's full potential out. Otherwise, down the line as tournaments go, entries will lessen, people will get bored of these horrible tournament variations, and ppl will already be asking for MK12.
Did you read what o said before that comment? I'm all for custom vairations in tournament.

You wouldn’t be setting up presets, and it won’t add time delays. You’d just choose your moves on the character select screen, instead of a variation. And pro players will already know what they want to pick. It will literally take them like 2 seconds (if that) to select their moves. Just think of how fast @16 Bit selects practice options. When you know what you’re doing, it’s extremely fast.

Other games have similar systems on the character select screen, and there are never any time issues in tournaments. Ever.
I agree that it will take pro players like 2 seconds to set their shit but that's like 30 people out of 1000. I'm not against custom vairations in tournaments I definitely think they should be in there but I think its going to be implemented via devs adding good ones to tournament vairations rather than setting it all up at the venue.
 
I picture the NRS team is divided on this subject and that's why it's not entirely clear what's happening or what they're going to do with it. The variations for MK just started in the last game, MKX. I'm sure it might have been an internal battle at first just to introduce that, it's a HUGE change to just have 20-30 vanilla template characters where the MU's are set in stone from launch. (before patches obviously)

So in my mind, I see meetings at a big round table where they talk about this... maybe even vote on it. I bet a few core members are voting against it because they feel like it would bastardize MK in general. That it would stray too far away from source material and more structured match ups.

The problem is, our community has made a pretty convincing argument. I originally didn't want it to change, then I didn't care, now I feel like it's stupid not to have customs allowed. How many abilities and combinations are being snuffed out for no reason? The answer: a LOT.

Hail to the fans. We pay your salaries and we love your games. Please listen to us. (not about everything lol)
I agree
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Premium Supporter
rather than setting it all up at the venue.
There’s no setup though. Not sure why that keeps being mentioned. It’s no different than multiple character selections. Think of MvC where people go through and select 3 characters for each match. It’ll be like that. Except probably even faster.
 

grandabx

The Flameater
I wonder if NRS feels like they're conforming and becoming too similar to other fighters if they change it? As if they're waiting where they can't take it anymore and say "Yeah, the fans were right. Let's just go ahead and do it." Lol
It's not really conforming. This is an element that has an incredibly high potential to put this game up as a "standard" or stick to tradition and potentially fade from stagnation. I mean, it's their fault for advertising MK11 as a customized game in the first place, then three weeks before release, start acting all brand new.
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Premium Supporter
Word. People are acting like people who go to tournaments don't already practice mains.

Like Timmy is paying a $20 entry fee to sit down and go "Uhhhh, where's the green guy?"
Right, they’re not gonna suddenly master every single move combination of their characters, and still be able to perform at the same level. They’re gonna pick maybe 1 or 2 combinations they like and have practiced.

Personally, I use Kano with Snake Bite and Manhandled. When I was forced to use a tournament variation, with moves I don’t use or practice, I felt completely helpless and had no idea what to do, since none of my combos or habits worked anymore. It feels like playing a brand new character for the first time.

The naysayers are just overreacting.
 

Dreamcatcher

BaCk FrOm ThE dEaD
Royal Contributor
It's not really conforming. This is an element that has an incredibly high potential to put this game up as a "standard" or stick to tradition and potentially fade from stagnation. I mean, it's their fault for advertising MK11 as a customized game in the first place, then three weeks before release, start acting all brand new.
True.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
the balance in this game is the same as it was in INJ2 on release. and even if it was the best balanced every other NRS game has been balanced like shit so this statement doesnt mean anything its just the best of the worst, an F can still be the best grade youve ever gotten.
Injustice 2 was pretty well balanced for a game in its release patch, and MK11 seems better in that regard. I'm not sure what perfectly balanced games you are comparing them too because NRS seems on par or superior to other companies when it comes to game balance in the past couple years.
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
Yeesh... a lot of wishful thinking from a simple quality-of-life update. Don't know why this took so long.

It was frustrating since MKX if you didn't see which variation your opponent chose and you couldn't know until after the fight started. Even during the RD1 announcement, the text wasn't under the life-bar yet.
 

Wazurau

FGC Since '97
I doubt we will see custom variations in ranked modes or tournaments anytime soon. The pro series has already started, I do not see them completely changing a fundamental rule in the middle of it. Maybe after the first season ends.
I don't expect custom variations in any real tournament setting ever.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
I love how people that don't run tournaments always ignore logistics. Gotta love it.

I wouldn't mind custom variations, but we have a ways to go before they become a mainstay at tourneys. Most tourneys already run late because people still do freaking button checks when they can check them on the character select screen, custom variations would be a mess because more than half of the people entering these tournaments are either from other games or casual players who won't even know how to do them or will fuck around and not do them quickly. Not to mention people will take way too long thinking about what they want to play. If everyone had a set variation and picked it there would still be a couple of hours added to tourneys, and it is quite easy for the people who aren't running or even attending them to advocate for that (not to mention there 100% is going to be people not being set and taking a long time to make the variation).

Again, not opposed to the idea, but ignoring all the logistics is stupid.

Edit: There is also a 0% chance of them changing it for Pro Tour events. You don't fundamentally change the rules of a pro circuit. If it does happen it will probably be next circuit.
 
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cavemold

Noob
I love how people that don't run tournaments always ignore logistics. Gotta love it.

I wouldn't mind custom variations, but we have a ways to go before they become a mainstay at tourneys. Most tourneys already run late because people still do freaking button checks when they can check them on the character select screen, custom variations would be a mess because more than half of the people entering these tournaments are either from other games or casual players who won't even know how to do them or will fuck around and not do them quickly. Not to mention people will take way too long thinking about what they want to play. If everyone had a set variation and picked it there would still be a couple of hours added to tourneys, and it is quite easy for the people who aren't running or even attending them to advocate for that (not to mention there 100% is going to be people not being set and taking a long time to make the variation).

Again, not opposed to the idea, but ignoring all the logistics is stupid.
that part makes sense but not online ranked,.
 

Xelz

Go over there!
Let's say the average is 20 secs per set up. 1000 x 20 = 20000 / 60 = 333.33 / 60 = 5.55 extra hours on an 8-10 hour tournament. Factor in other variables like late start times, button checks, stream/production issues. All that shit adds up.

You could argue that it'd be spread out over a few days and that extra time would degrade from day to day as more people were eliminated. Still, it's a significant amount of time especially when combined with the regular ass problems of organizing & running a tournament.
Your math is wrong. The tournament doesn't play one match at a time. Multiple matches take place in parallel/simultaneously. So you need to divide by the number of parallel setups.

Also, 20sec per selection is waaaaay too high an estimate. Assuming a player picks three custom moves, that's two more clicks than selecting one preset variation. It won't take 10sec per click. Even 5sec would be high since it doesn't take 5 seconds to select one character out of an entire roster, and there are fewer custom moves available per character than characters in the roster, so it should take less time to select a move than to select a character.

So let's assume 2sec per click and half the players pick three one-bar moves and half choose two moves (a one-bar move and a two-bar move). That's 2.5 clicks per player, but only 1.5 more incrementally over the current system which requires a click to pick a tournament variation, thus it takes 3sec longer on average to choose moves. We'll assume a mid-set character/move change in 1 of every 3 sets. And assume, on average there are 3 stations available for simultaneous play. (There would be more available during pools/early brackets, fewer in later bracket stages.) That equates to 0.37hrs longer for the tournament, or 22.22 more minutes.

Edit: typo
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
that part makes sense but not online ranked,.
I'm only referring to people talking about tournaments. I am 100% for custom variations in ranked or at least having a separate queue, would be super fun to see what people come up with.

Your math is wrong. The tournament doesn't play one match at a time. Multiple matches take place in parallel/simultaneously. So you need to divide by the number of parallel setups.

Also, 20sec per selection is waaaaay too high an estimate. Assuming a player picks three custom moves, that's two more clicks than selecting one preset variation. It won't take 10sec per click. Even 5sec would be high since it doesn't take 5 seconds to select one character out of an entire roster, and there are fewer custom moves available per character than characters in the roster, so it should take less time to select a move than to select a character.

So let's assume 2sec per click and half the players pick three one-bar moves and half choose two moves (a one-bar move and a two-bar move). That's 2.5 clicks per player, but only two more incrementally over the current system which requires a click to pick a tournament variation, thus it takes 3sec longer on average to choose moves. We'll assume a mid-set character/move change in 1 of every 3 sets. And assume, on average there are 3 stations available for simultaneous play. (There would be more available during pools/early brackets, fewer in later bracket stages.) That equates to 0.37hrs longer for the tournament, or 22.22 more minutes.
I've been going to tournaments and helping run them for the past 8 or so years. People STILL do button checks even though you can set your buttons on character select. I also still have had matches where the opponent said they were good without even checking their buttons and get mad when they are wrong lol. Top players and dedicated players will be quick (unless they want to troll which top players often do), but the other half of casual players or players from other games will not be that quick. Not to mention how are you going to enforce this time? Are there going to be refs at every setup? Does everyone get 5 seconds and then they are forced to use what they have?

The truth is a lot of FGC players do not have their shit together and do not care about the tournament around them. They'll take 30 seconds or whatever to do customs or button checks, not realizing that if everyone did that the tournament wouldn't end until 2am. How it is and will always be.

PLus if you're going to allow custom variations, why would people not try to change them up based on matchups and stuff? Are we going to allow changes between games? How will that work?
 
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xenogorgeous

At last. The Gathering...
Premium Supporter
I love how people that don't run tournaments always ignore logistics. Gotta love it.

I wouldn't mind custom variations, but we have a ways to go before they become a mainstay at tourneys. Most tourneys already run late because people still do freaking button checks when they can check them on the character select screen, custom variations would be a mess because more than half of the people entering these tournaments are either from other games or casual players who won't even know how to do them or will fuck around and not do them quickly. Not to mention people will take way too long thinking about what they want to play. If everyone had a set variation and picked it there would still be a couple of hours added to tourneys, and it is quite easy for the people who aren't running or even attending them to advocate for that (not to mention there 100% is going to be people not being set and taking a long time to make the variation).

Again, not opposed to the idea, but ignoring all the logistics is stupid.

Edit: There is also a 0% chance of them changing it for Pro Tour events. You don't fundamentally change the rules of a pro circuit. If it does happen it will probably be next circuit.
give the game a "in-game feature" countdown of 15 seconds to people setup his favourite configuration .... if they fail, the game just close and lock the config sceen, and pick automatically one of the default tourney variations, and so the dude is obligated to play that way for the match :p
 

grandabx

The Flameater
I wrote this solution in another, older thread:

They design a universal Tournament Mode.

It has a 20-25 second time limit to select the below options:
  1. Character and color (no new outfits)
  2. 1-3 custom variation moves
  3. Button configuration/button test
  4. Stage select is locked on random select (no player advantage)
  5. Game can't be paused until after the victor is announced (no more of that excitement-killing pause & rematch nonsense)
Every move in the game has its own unique symbol/emblem and they are displayed at the versus screen and are visible underneath the respective character's stamina bar.

Tournament organizers just have to turn on tournament mode and they're good to go.

Every move in the game can already be used in the lab.

Here's an example of Marvel:

 
STOP! Already making a non issue an issue. This will better the playerbase, better the lifespan of the game as a whole! This a small price to pay to bring this game's full potential out. Otherwise, down the line as tournaments go, entries will lessen, people will get bored of these horrible tournament variations, and ppl will already be asking for MK12.
Never say never. Most of the top players were advocating for customs before release, and online polls were overwhelmingly in favor. Many even offered suggestions on how to do it via the character select screen (including additional stuff like the new loading screen we just got). So many people wanted it that NRS even addressed it in a Kombat Kast and said they got the message and they’re looking into it. Whether it finally sees fruition or not, surely they at least have someone working on it, at least to test out the idea.
I think there's a lot of different things that can be done to help the logistics. I've mentioned elsewhere a couple times that maybe if a player wants to bring kustoms they might have to be submitted in writing when the player shows up on the day of and signs in -- a version of this occurs for almost literally every physical and digital collectible card game in existence. I really have a hard time believing it's adding a flat 20 seconds to every button check that occurs, sometimes it will take a little longer sometimes it takes less. That's the nature of the beast when you've got players with custom controllers, custom settings, custom everything, the variation is relatively the simplest part of that.

I think MK11's success, competitively or otherwise, does not entirely hinge on Kustoms available everywhere. But I do think it's better to rip that band-aid off sooner rather than later so the community can confront any logistical issues. I'm hopeful that NRS is using this time to change their architecture to allow ad-hoc variations per-session and iterating on the interface to build a variation quickly and painlessly -- they have to stick to the tournament variations at least in the short term to avoid whiplash from the competitive side.
 

Xelz

Go over there!
I'm only referring to people talking about tournaments. I am 100% for custom variations in ranked or at least having a separate queue, would be super fun to see what people come up with.



I've been going to tournaments and helping run them for the past 8 or so years. People STILL do button checks even though you can set your buttons on character select. I also still have had matches where the opponent said they were good without even checking their buttons and get mad when they are wrong lol. Top players and dedicated players will be quick (unless they want to troll which top players often do), but the other half of casual players or players from other games will not be that quick. Not to mention how are you going to enforce this time? Are there going to be refs at every setup? Does everyone get 5 seconds and then they are forced to use what they have?

The truth is a lot of FGC players do not have their shit together and do not care about the tournament around them. They'll take 30 seconds or whatever to do customs or button checks, not realizing that if everyone did that the tournament wouldn't end until 2am. How it is and will always be.

PLus if you're going to allow custom variations, why would people not try to change them up based on matchups and stuff? Are we going to allow changes between games? How will that work?
Button checks happen regardless, custom moves won't change any of that. So that's just a strawman argument.

Regarding how long selections will take, I'll just point to the same evidence that's been discussed ad nauseum: MvC. Players had to make more selections (multiple characters and assists) than MK11 custom moves would require, and nobody freaked out over how long that took.