Are interactables too good?

[CrimsonShadow]

I feel Power Characters greatly benefit from interactibles than anyone in the entire game, using them as mobility isn't even good, I haven't seen anyone use them for mobility. As a gadget character, it's only useful to prevent someone else from using them, yes, you may occasionally bait on a read and catch someone with an explosive but it's not as frequent as, herp, derp, throw and get free damage.

And I also feel people saying to backdash them and use invincibility frames are full of crap. I haven't seen a single successful consistent backdash to avoid them, not to mention they have absurd tracking, and even if you do manage to avoid, there is debris and after explosion that almost 100% catches you.

Any one noticed the really shitty hitbox on Metallo this weekend or when people tried to avoid the Robot on Metropolis that the after explosion still hit them?

I think they're kind of silly.

I chuckled a little bit when I read this -- because when I warned you about it before the game came out, your exact words were "I just view them as an extension of the character's toolset". Now you see how big of an 'extension' that can be in some situations

 

[CCVengeance]

It happens. I had to eat TV's on asylum against GL EVEN though I MB'd the second on reaction and got a full punish, I shouldnt have eaten 20% to get a vortex.

Make them blockable.That's all I need.I dont know WHY they arent already.

 

[Jer]

Make them blockable.That's all I need.I dont know WHY they arent already.

Because super heroes

 

[RunwayMafia]

I wish you could redirect it right back at them. Kinda like how each character in MK9 had their own input for toasty boost...now that would be hype and justified.

 

[RIF]

Make them blockable.That's all I need.I dont know WHY they arent already.

I am not certain this would be the best answer. Not every character has options to make space and/or reset a bad situation. If you left them as unblockable, but reduced the damage to 5%, I would feel better about them.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Under_The_Mayo Could I possibly be in this conversation as well?

Let's get these other guys confirmed first, and then we can talk about whoever else wants in on the conversation. We'll have a stream chat were I'd take questions and comments too.

 

[Jer]

Let's get these other guys confirmed first, and then we can talk about whoever else wants in on the conversation. We'll have a stream chat were I'd take questions and comments too.

Awesome, thank you.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Juggs

I'd also be open to the idea of something not live. We could open a thread for people to make points about interactables, and submit questions for me to ask everyone. And then we could record the skype session and release it as a podcast talking about whatever rules are decided on.

 

[UsedForGlue]

The only down tones to interactables should be:

Watch tower - Cant dash under an air interactable even when obviously scouted. It still hits you on the opposite side, even when outside of its hit box.

Lazer gun in Lex's level (insurgency)- Too spammable, recharges way too early.

Machine turret gun - Left side of strykers island, recharges too quickly, some characters can't move the opponent from that position at all, and are too out matched by a simple walk back, especially P1. The Myscira port cannon is strong and it only has one canon ball, same design, but balanced.

Wayne manor & metropolis car hit box is way too big, can't jump back even on reaction to a power character at almost full screen, again take the Myscira tree on the right side, its very balanced.

Gotham trash bin, has glitches, still hits characters that make a clean jump, land and seconds later get hit by a phantom trash bin.

Apart from that, interactables are fair, interesting and change the game dynamic massively. They must stay.

 

[UsedForGlue]

And it's clear that the most equal beneficial stage is Batcave (lab):

No corner escapes (for power or gadget/mobility)
Midscreen arena bounce combo (all cast)
Full cast use of bat mobile rockets.
Full cast option to pick up grenades.

 

[NMISM-Grinch]

I feel the tournament standard should be first match both players can choose what stage they want. After that loser should have sole selection in the actual stage.(Winner should be able to freely choose the other part of the stage that the loser has not selected, but must still make the same overall stage selection as the loser.)

 

[Zoidberg747]

No

STFU and adapt

 

[Bildslash]

I long for the time where I don't read a new complaint thread popping up every single day:

-X is too stronk, bwaah!
-X trait is too stronk, bwaah!
-X is Kano tier, bwaah!
-X community sucks, bwaah!
-Online sucks, bwaah!
-X has too many skins, bwaah!
-My character has too few skins, bwaah!
-X sucks as a DLC, bwaah!
-X should have been the DLC, bwaah!

 

[Tim Static]

Juggs brought up the idea for this thread late last night in our staff forum, and here is my reply to him about this topic:

Interactables are a part of IGAU. People expecting them to be banned are wanting something else out of the game, but the game isn't anything but what it is. Did X-Factor ever get removed from MvC3? Nope. maybe nerf them but banning them is just unacceptable IMO.

So theres where I stand on interactables.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The only down tones to interactables should be:

Watch tower - Cant dash under an air interactable even when obviously scouted. It still hits you on the opposite side, even when outside of its hit box.

I feel like those flying interactables should come in from alternate sides of the stage, rather than just one side. It's easy for them to slant the entire match depending on what type of character you're playing and what type your opponent has.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

And it's clear that the most equal beneficial stage is Batcave (lab):

No corner escapes (for power or gadget/mobility)
Midscreen arena bounce combo (all cast)
Full cast use of bat mobile rockets.
Full cast option to pick up grenades.

P1 gets the nades and P2 gets the Batmobile. It's more or less balanced depending on the MUs. I say Gotham City Rooftop is still the most balanced simply 'cause it has the least interactables. And the only disadvantagous characters are mobility.

 

[Bildslash]

I feel like those flying interactables should come in from alternate sides of the stage, rather than just one side. It's easy for them to slant the entire match depending on what type of character you're playing and what type your opponent has.

The only ones that come from one side are in Watchtower, which every character can throw.

Metropolis Rooftop drones come from the background and keep moving back and forth between both players.

 

[That__John__Guy]

I am a fan of interactables and think they are an important part of the game. For one, they are really something that distinguish IGAU from other fighting games. Second, they add a lot in terms of making IGAU feel more extra-dimensional, really, more interactive. Having stage selection be an important part of strategy was intended. In MK9 you see the same couple maps over and over: do I want the longest map to zone or the shortest map since I rushdown.... It is cool that a character that might have an advantage in a mu on one map has a disadvantage on another.

I do somewhat agree though that non-bombing gadget characters with a jump or jump-down attack seem a little hampered against power characters, then again, there are stages where they can use all the interactables. Are the designers *sure* they amped up the non-bombing gadget characters enough to make up for this obvious disadvantage? Time will tell. I do see a lot of top players with non-power characters, like Batman, Nightwing, Deathstroke, Green Arrow, so it obviously isn't a crippling disadvantage in their opinion to just be gadget.

Also, the hitbox on some interactables does seem a little large. What was it, the Metropolis roof with the hovering robots, at ECT V you could see the characters jump way high out of the way of the explosion, but it still wasn't enough. Even way up in the air, still hit. I'm not wild about having interactables where that is it: if it is thrown at you there is nothing to do. Can't block, can't backdash, can't run, you are just f---ed. At the same time, it was very interesting to watch the play around interactables. You could see a character in the corner who all of a sudden seemed to have an advantage by being in the corner, because of a missile launcher or a pig. You can see terms like "flower pressure" becoming standard. Start on Fortress of Solitude and right away there is metagame going on around that spiked chandelier. To me this dynamism is good, not bad. Just some might need tweaking.

One possible nerf (short of banning them, adjusting damage, or adjusting hitbox) would be to slow the start-up. Particularly for power characters. You want to pick up that massive interactable with an enormous hitbox and damage, and smash it down nearly unblockable, fine, but it is going to take a little longer.

I am all for loser choosing the map.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The only ones that come from one side are in Watchtower, which every character can throw.

Yup, that's what he was talking about in the post I quoted.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Juggs, STORMS, Tom Brady, REO, CD jr, GGA 16 Bit, GamerBlake90 STB TakeAChance, Tim Static

Let's have a community meeting on this. Endless threads aren't going to help. We need to get together and talk this out.

I propose a skype session with multiple community leaders. A "mandatory" live podcast with stream chat for everyone at TYM. Discussing the following:
- banning certain stages permanently, if any
- banning certain stages temporarily, if any
- making certain stages start in certain zones first, so you have to stage transition to access the respawing interactables
- a united voice on what we want to petition NRS to change, if anything

I'll volunteer to host it, if the community would allow it. I can keep my cool, I can argue my own perspective, and try to find some kind of compromise that would make everyone happy. We can hear the arguments for any side in a serious talk about this. Because this needs to be resolved or we'll tear each other apart.

Can we do this? Forum posts aren't going to solve anything for anyone.

I will gladly stream this podcast should you wish for it.

 

[UsedForGlue]

P1 gets the nades and P2 gets the Batmobile. It's more or less balanced depending on the MUs. I say Gotham City Rooftop is still the most balanced simply 'cause it has the least interactables. And the only disadvantagous characters are mobility.

P1 doesn't get the explosives just like that. It takes knockdowns, supers, hard attacks etc to even release them from the background, then they have to be picked up, and both character can exploit that.

P2 might start at the side of the bat mobile, but that doesn't mean he or she will get it first, nor would it be feasible game plan to work off it, as it doesn't travel straight like ferris aircraft, only towards the middle of the screen, again, all characters exploit it the exact same way.

 

[Vagrant]

They are a joke.

 

[WaywardStranger]

I am a fan of interactables and think they are an important part of the game. For one, they are really something that distinguish IGAU from other fighting games. Second, they add a lot in terms of making IGAU feel more extra-dimensional, really, more interactive. Having stage selection be an important part of strategy was intended. In MK9 you see the same couple maps over and over: do I want the longest map to zone or the shortest map since I rushdown.... It is cool that a character that might have an advantage in a mu on one map has a disadvantage on another.

I do somewhat agree though that non-bombing gadget characters with a jump or jump-down attack seem a little hampered against power characters, then again, there are stages where they can use all the interactables. Are the designers *sure* they amped up the non-bombing gadget characters enough to make up for this obvious disadvantage? Time will tell. I do see a lot of top players with non-power characters, like Batman, Nightwing, Deathstroke, Green Arrow, so it obviously isn't a crippling disadvantage in their opinion to just be gadget.

Also, the hitbox on some interactables does seem a little large. What was it, the Metropolis roof with the hovering robots, at ECT V you could see the characters jump way high out of the way of the explosion, but it still wasn't enough. Even way up in the air, still hit. I'm not wild about having interactables where that is it: if it is thrown at you there is nothing to do. Can't block, can't backdash, can't run, you are just f---ed. At the same time, it was very interesting to watch the play around interactables. You could see a character in the corner who all of a sudden seemed to have an advantage by being in the corner, because of a missile launcher or a pig. You can see terms like "flower pressure" becoming standard. Start on Fortress of Solitude and right away there is metagame going on around that spiked chandelier. To me this dynamism is good, not bad. Just some might need tweaking.

One possible nerf (short of banning them, adjusting damage, or adjusting hitbox) would be to slow the start-up. Particularly for power characters. You want to pick up that massive interactable with an enormous hitbox and damage, and smash it down nearly unblockable, fine, but it is going to take a little longer.

I am all for loser choosing the map.

^^^This, mega dittos.

I'm blown away by the results of the poll. It seems many of the veterans from both MK & Capcom community are refusing to adapt to this game, same as the pubescent, know-nothing cry babies.

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

^^^This, mega dittos.

I'm blown away by the results of the poll. It seems many of the veterans from both MK & Capcom community are refusing to adapt to this game, same as the pubescent, know-nothing cry babies.

I wouldn't say refusing to adapt, it's just frustrating when certain characters cannot avoid the interactable because the window to jump over it is so incredibly small. I don't have many problems with Superman or Batman, but with Green Lantern or Green Arrow I have a hell of a time avoiding certain throwable interactables.

 

[NMISM-Grinch]

^^^This, mega dittos.

I'm blown away by the results of the poll. It seems many of the veterans from both MK & Capcom community are refusing to adapt to this game, same as the pubescent, know-nothing cry babies.

I accidentily voted yes, so it's misleading by at least one vote