General/Other - Ancestral Ancestral Variation Discussion Thread

[Youphemism]

Ive just been doing starter into stun, load fire arrow. ji2, OHfire arrow, instant divekick run 34 low arrow.

I just needed a secondary and his buttons and spacing are awesome so I've taken a liking to him

Yeah Ancestral is fun. I told you about how I play it in another post the other day

 

[skater11]

D4xxEX up split shot. Used in the neutral or as footsies is godlike. Doesn't work max range d4 or else the up split shot'll whiff. Have fun my fellow ancestrals

Edit: it's a bit too quiet in this thread. Just thought I'd share a little something worth mentioning.

 

[Youphemism]

Interesting, but not sure if it's the best use of meter. I'd rather save it to get that extra chip and plus frames off ex arrow in fire arrow blockstrings to close out rounds or to drain more meter. I use D4 mostly for safe(ish) arrow cancels on block, ie a blocked D4~load. I really should get that data so I'll go test some of it asap.

 

[skater11]

Interesting, but not sure if it's the best use of meter. I'd rather save it to get that extra chip and plus frames off ex arrow in fire arrow blockstrings to close out rounds or to drain more meter. I use D4 mostly for safe(ish) arrow cancels on block, ie a blocked D4~load. I really should get that data so I'll go test some of it asap.

Uhh I believe 4(on BLOCK)is the best safe arrow load. I haven't tried d4 yet though. Oh and what I posted above frametraps into guaranteed pressure/chip dmg. It's really good hence why I thought I'd share.
4xxarrow load(on block)
221xxarrow load(on block)
D4xxarrow load(on hit)
11xxarrow load(on hit)
^^ that is what I mostly use.

 

[Youphemism]

Uhh I believe 4(on BLOCK)is the best safe arrow load. I haven't tried d4 yet though. Oh and what I posted above frametraps into guaranteed pressure/chip dmg. It's really good hence why I thought I'd share.
4xxarrow load(on block)
221xxarrow load(on block)
D4xxarrow load(on hit)
11xxarrow load(on hit)
^^ that is what I mostly use.

I'll test some stuff soon and see what the frame data is on it

 

[skater11]

I struggle getting big punishes with ancestral KJ(no arrow)the most I get is 221xxEX flying kick or regular. So with that in mind sometimes I rather just sacrifice that dmg for a safe arrow load. So for instance, instead of punishing kung Laos spin I'd 11xxload arrow instead lol. But that's just me. It works out still.

 

[Youphemism]

Yeah using hit advantage to get a reload is a solid tactic if you don't have one but I try my hardest to have one at all times, no matter which one it is. That way, even if I don't get big damage, I get either a stun into load into full combo into load, drain some meter or so a little bit more damage than usual.

 

[Youphemism]

Updated OP with a link to the thread I made containing the frame data for moves cancelled into arrow load on hit and on block. Also amended the F2D1~load, D1 corner conversion description warning players that F2D1~load is -10 on block.

Basically our only cancelled into safe loads are

On hit:
11 : +5
111 : -2
B1 : -4
B14 : -5
U1 : -1
22 : -1
221 : -6 (against anyone but Cassie and Reptile I suppose)
B2 : +4
B21 : -3
B214 : +1
F2 : -6 (exc. Cas & Rep)
F24 : -2
F243 and F2D1 and 343 since they launch
3 : +5
34 : +3
B3 : -5
F3 : -5
D3 : -1
4 : -1
D4 : -2

On block:
221 : -6 (exc. Cas & Rep)
F243 : N/A (launches), -5
4 : -1, -4

So it looks to me like if we want to get some decent advantage on our reloads we should end restands in 3~load or 11~load since they're +5.

 

[HuttonMD]

Hey so I just started playing ancestral and I've looked through the combo threads but I wanna know what are the main bnbs you all use midscreen and corner?

Another question what is your main strategy when you start the match? My ancestral definitely isn't ready yet so I just wanna get a feel for how he should be played

 

[skater11]

Hey so I just started playing ancestral and I've looked through the combo threads but I wanna know what are the main bnbs you all use midscreen and corner?

Another question what is your main strategy when you start the match? My ancestral definitely isn't ready yet so I just wanna get a feel for how he should be played

I can play a set or two if your on Xbox one

 

[HuttonMD]

I can play a set or two if your on Xbox one

Yea definitely my gt is xXxR1ddleMeTh1s
Im outta town for weekend but just add me and we can run some games when I get back

 

[skater11]

Yea definitely my gt is xXxR1ddleMeTh1s
Im outta town for weekend but just add me and we can run some games when I get back

Added you. And this also goes for anyone who reads this. If you want Anctrl.KJ experience or simply want to play feel free to add me.

Edit: Xbox one only for now. I've been wanting to get a ps4 copy to play on my friends ps4 but haven't gotten there yet.

 

[skater11]

Feel like dropping this character. He's fun to play but has to work way too hard. And you really have to open up your opponent 5+ times just to take a round, it's ridiculous. Stun arrow could really be atleast just 1 with no time limit or 2 arrow specials until it runs out. So for example, doing EXdf2 could count as 1 with still 1 more stun special available. Only because EXdf2 shoots 2 arrows, I wouldn't want it to count as "2 stun arrows used". We should be able to EXdf2 and then still have another rep to throw until the stun enhancement vanishes.

 

[Youphemism]

Feel like dropping this character. He's fun to play but has to work way too hard. And you really have to open up your opponent 5+ times just to take a round, it's ridiculous. Stun arrow could really be atleast just 1 with no time limit or 2 arrow specials until it runs out. So for example, doing EXdf2 could count as 1 with still 1 more stun special available. Only because EXdf2 shoots 2 arrows, I wouldn't want it to count as "2 stun arrows used". We should be able to EXdf2 and then still have another rep to throw until the stun enhancement vanishes.

Yeah it's not a variation I'd main by any means, it's just one of my secondaries I find interesting to play. Stun being limited by time and by number is kinda shit, but along with the arrow load cancel data I calculated it's apparent they weren't even thinking about this variation so the game is being left how it is I'm afraid. While I see what you're saying there is no reason you should ever ex stun arrow anyway so if that's a habit you have I'd suggest dropping it lol. EX arrows should only be used for vampiric and fire arrows for extra meter drain/chip damage and otherwise with any arrows for safety on block. If you have a stun arrow I'd just not risk using unsafe strings, use B14 and F24 or 111 or 221 or whatever and hit confirm them into stun arrow and if they don't hit just stop the string because you're still safe.

 

[HuttonMD]

How well does ancestral actually zone? I know he has a lot of arrow options in the air and ground

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

This variation gets really good damage meterlessly, and has a decent rushdown and zoning game.

I can see why it falls behind shaolin. But not behind bojutsu.

EX overhead arrow jails into a mix up(yes, jails into the low, overhead is backdashable tho) and converts full combo if u have fire arrows and hit low enough.

Ex vampiric arrows nearly take a full meter from opponents, and seeing as your meterless damage is all u need, it should be worth it to use the bar.

Has a standing vortex (I say vortex and not 50/50 because I believe it can be fuzzied)

Can break armor on wake up w meaty ex overhead arrow (once again full combo if fire arrows loaded)

Decent zoning potential, nothing spectacular, but I'm sure people wouldn't want to trade with stun or fire arrows.

I think I might put some time into the character as a secondary or something.

I definitely see the potential.

 

[Youphemism]

This variation gets really good damage meterlessly, and has a decent rushdown and zoning game.

I can see why it falls behind shaolin. But not behind bojutsu.

EX overhead arrow jails into a mix up(yes, jails into the low, overhead is backdashable tho) and converts full combo if u have fire arrows and hit low enough.

Ex vampiric arrows nearly take a full meter from opponents, and seeing as your meterless damage is all u need, it should be worth it to use the bar.

Has a standing vortex (I say vortex and not 50/50 because I believe it can be fuzzied)

Can break armor on wake up w meaty ex overhead arrow (once again full combo if fire arrows loaded)

Decent zoning potential, nothing spectacular, but I'm sure people wouldn't want to trade with stun or fire arrows.

I think I might put some time into the character as a secondary or something.

I definitely see the potential.

You think it could be better than Bojutsu? Nooooo way lol. Bojutsu has an armoured launcher and better meterless damage for a start. Ancestral gets good meterless damage depending on what arrow you have loaded... You would use ex arrows to keep your blockstrings safe or to apply pressure since they're plus, I don't use ex arrows on hit because I don't think it's that much better. He can break armour with F3 anyway and that's meterless so I don't think ex overhead arrows are worth it most of the time. His zoning is below average, super slow recovery on his air projectiles especially.

It has potential but it needs a lot if it wants to compete with Shaolin or Bojutsu imo. Have you seen the load arrow cancel data thread I made? It's outrageous and only one aspect of his game but an important one.

 

[skater11]

If they are gonna time limit stun arrow then he needs an armored EX arrow.

 

[skater11]

Yeah it's not a variation I'd main by any means, it's just one of my secondaries I find interesting to play. Stun being limited by time and by number is kinda shit, but along with the arrow load cancel data I calculated it's apparent they weren't even thinking about this variation so the game is being left how it is I'm afraid. While I see what you're saying there is no reason you should ever ex stun arrow anyway so if that's a habit you have I'd suggest dropping it lol. EX arrows should only be used for vampiric and fire arrows for extra meter drain/chip damage and otherwise with any arrows for safety on block. If you have a stun arrow I'd just not risk using unsafe strings, use B14 and F24 or 111 or 221 or whatever and hit confirm them into stun arrow and if they don't hit just stop the string because you're still safe.

"No reason why you should ever EX stun arrow" what?! It breaks armor in a heartbeat and +9999 advntg. Also, I dont think you know what I meant. Imagine being able to:
(Stun arrow loaded) starter, stun arrow, load stun arrow, 221EXdb2, RC 221(guaranteed/hitconfirmable),
df2(onhit). On block you would have arrow change as an option or go for chip dmg.

 

[Youphemism]

"No reason why you should ever EX stun arrow" what?! It breaks armor in a heartbeat and +9999 advntg. Also, I dont think you know what I meant. Imagine being able to:
(Stun arrow loaded) starter, stun arrow, load stun arrow, 221EXdb2, RC 221(guaranteed/hitconfirmable),
df2(onhit). On block you would have arrow change as an option or go for chip dmg.

Oh shit didn't even think about the fact it also leads to a full combo as well as breaks armour, good call.

Yeah but you're shooting the arrows at them so why should you have about 4 of them? The point of having one stun is that it leads to full combo so you have to be careful about how you use it. EX stun arrows are better for breaking armour on hit than using them in blockstrings when you can already stay safe and not even have to use your arrow or meter.

 

[RM slacked]

who even still plays this character

 

[RM NoBrows]

who even still plays this character

I started playing him again

 

[RM slacked]

I started playing him again

ayy lmao I just picked him up and he's honestly the most fun I've had in mk x

 

[RM NoBrows]

ayy lmao I just picked him up and he's honestly the most fun I've had in mk x

He's a lot of fun. That timer tho is a killer. His corner game is so swaggy

 

[Youphemism]

He's fun but there's barely any, if any at all, matchups you would use him over either of the other two. Sucks but maybe if they listened to us the variation system would look a bit better. Ancestral's only change being a crouching stance for low arrow is a joke.