Youphemism
Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Creating this thread to talk about all things Ancestral. I have findings to post which I will do at some point but for now whoever has anything they want to discuss feel free to.
Stuff to talk about:
Optimal meter drain/fire arrow damage combos
Matchups I guess
Optimal Combos:
Thanks to PPJ for this one, 43% meterless midscreen
(with stun arrow loaded) J2, 343~DD2, DD1, run cancel~J2~air DD2, run cancel~34, instant air D4, 34~DD2
In the corner:
(with stun arrow loaded) 221~stun arrow, load fire arrow, slight step back J2~DD2, 34~DB2, instant air D4, J3~DD2, 24 47% corner meterless
Bnbs:
Midscreen: (with stun arrow loaded) starter~DD2, DD1, (run cancel depending on starter)J2~air DD2, run cancel~34, instant air D4, 34~DD2
In the corner: *34 can be replaced with 11 for slightly less damage but an easier followup
(with stun arrow loaded) Starter~stun arrow, DD1, super late NJP, instant DF2, J3~DD2, *34, instant air D4, 34~DD2 = roughly 37-41%
Miscellaneous things to know about the variation:
Normal arrows themselves do 4% damage on hit with the ex version doing 7.8%. The advantage on block changes depending on the type of arrow used (ground, air), the distance it's used at and/or the height from the ground the arrow is laucnhed at but generally the normal one is unsafe and the ex version is plus on block.
For the full data concerning which moves are safe or unsafe on hit and on block when cancelled into an arrow load (ie. doing a string like B14 then cancelling it into an arrow load (DB1/DD1/DF1) like so: B14~DB1) check this thread: http://testyourmight.com/threads/ancestral-load-arrow-cancel-frame-data.56030/
or look at the spoiler below if you'd just rather see the safe cancels on hit on block:
Firstly try not to use raw arrows at the end of a blockstring, they are very unsafe at -12 on block. However EX straight arrows are plus 7 on block and are my personal go to use of meter besides armour and breakers. All arrows last 6 seconds and have unlimited uses in that time besides the stun arrow which has one shot before you will need to load another arrow. Below are descriptions of each arrow type and what they do on hit and on block, with each colour representing the colour of arrow:
Stun arrow (DB1) -
Vampiric arrow (DF1) -
Fire arrow (DD1) -
Optimal Vampiric Arrow usage:
3 arrow combos (takes about a bar and 1/5th:
With vampiric arrow loaded first: F2D1~DB2, 34~DB2, D1~DD2 = 16% (takes a bar and 1/5)
With stun arrow loaded first: starter~DF2/DD2, DF1, NJP, JK~OH arrow, JK~OH arrow, 11, IADK, 34~DD2 = roughly 29%ish depending on starter (takes about a bar and 1/4)
@Youphemism
@RM NoBrows
@HanSolo
@Envythis
Chris to the G
@MF SLAYER
@Poser Paul
@buyacushun
@Envythis
@STB CoRzz
@KIllaByte
Stuff to talk about:
Optimal meter drain/fire arrow damage combos
Matchups I guess
Optimal Combos:
Thanks to PPJ for this one, 43% meterless midscreen
In the corner:
(with stun arrow loaded) 221~stun arrow, load fire arrow, slight step back J2~DD2, 34~DB2, instant air D4, J3~DD2, 24 47% corner meterless
Bnbs:
Midscreen: (with stun arrow loaded) starter~DD2, DD1, (run cancel depending on starter)J2~air DD2, run cancel~34, instant air D4, 34~DD2
In the corner: *34 can be replaced with 11 for slightly less damage but an easier followup
(with stun arrow loaded) Starter~stun arrow, DD1, super late NJP, instant DF2, J3~DD2, *34, instant air D4, 34~DD2 = roughly 37-41%
Miscellaneous things to know about the variation:
Arrows
Normal arrows themselves do 4% damage on hit with the ex version doing 7.8%. The advantage on block changes depending on the type of arrow used (ground, air), the distance it's used at and/or the height from the ground the arrow is laucnhed at but generally the normal one is unsafe and the ex version is plus on block.
For the full data concerning which moves are safe or unsafe on hit and on block when cancelled into an arrow load (ie. doing a string like B14 then cancelling it into an arrow load (DB1/DD1/DF1) like so: B14~DB1) check this thread: http://testyourmight.com/threads/ancestral-load-arrow-cancel-frame-data.56030/
or look at the spoiler below if you'd just rather see the safe cancels on hit on block:
11 : +5
111 : -2
B1 : -4
B14 : +1
U1 : -1
22 : -1
221 : -6 (against anyone without a 6 frame normal or special)
B2 : +4
B21 : -3
B214 : +1
F2 : -6 (against anyone without a 6 frame normal or special)
F24 : -2
F243 and F2D1 and 343 since they launch
3 : +5
34 : +3
B3 : -5
F3 : -5
D3 : -1
4 : -1
D4 : -2
111 : -2
B1 : -4
B14 : +1
U1 : -1
22 : -1
221 : -6 (against anyone without a 6 frame normal or special)
B2 : +4
B21 : -3
B214 : +1
F2 : -6 (against anyone without a 6 frame normal or special)
F24 : -2
F243 and F2D1 and 343 since they launch
3 : +5
34 : +3
B3 : -5
F3 : -5
D3 : -1
4 : -1
D4 : -2
221 : -6 (exc. Rep)
F243 : -5
4 : -4
Some cancels are safe when used from a distance like 111~cancel (-7 on block) so experiment to see what you can find for different matchups.
F243 : -5
4 : -4
Some cancels are safe when used from a distance like 111~cancel (-7 on block) so experiment to see what you can find for different matchups.
Firstly try not to use raw arrows at the end of a blockstring, they are very unsafe at -12 on block. However EX straight arrows are plus 7 on block and are my personal go to use of meter besides armour and breakers. All arrows last 6 seconds and have unlimited uses in that time besides the stun arrow which has one shot before you will need to load another arrow. Below are descriptions of each arrow type and what they do on hit and on block, with each colour representing the colour of arrow:
Stun arrow (DB1) -
On hit: 1%. Restands the opponent. Gives enough hit advantage to load another arrow of any type and continue the combo. After the restand end with JI2~34 (more damaging) or JI2~11 (more hit advantage) for enough hit advantage to go for a safe hit-confirmable mixup between B14 (0 on block) and F24 (-8 on block). Or after the restand you can do JI2~34~reload for a safe arrow load that leaves you +5 on hit, but unfortunately you don't get anything guaranteed after it. You can also just continue the combo after the restand with a NJP, JK~DK for example for more damage or an extra arrow hit.
On block: 0.62%. Don't ever use this on block, not only does it only do 0.62% chip (which is 41% of the normal arrow's chip damage) but is also still unsafe.
Useful for: Restanding from/for conversions, creating a vortex on your opponent (although it doesn't do huge damage). One of your most important arrows for midscreen and closer for hit confirms.
On block: 0.62%. Don't ever use this on block, not only does it only do 0.62% chip (which is 41% of the normal arrow's chip damage) but is also still unsafe.
Useful for: Restanding from/for conversions, creating a vortex on your opponent (although it doesn't do huge damage). One of your most important arrows for midscreen and closer for hit confirms.
Vampiric arrow (DF1) -
On hit: 2%. Normal one drains about 2/5 of a bar of your opponent's meter, EX version steals 4/5 of a bar.
On block: 3%. Only steals 3/20 of a bar of meter, EX steals about 3/10 of a bar.
Useful for: Although his zoning is mediocre, when you are zoning or at least far from the opponent this becomes an important arrow for hindering your opponent's offensive and wakeup options as well as defensive options like armour and breakers. I tend to keep this one on pretty often until I'm happy the opponent has as little meter as I want them to have then I switch to stun arrow and begin offence. Also important for matchups against characters who don't use meter in their combos so you take away the only tool they have that stops you from hitting them hard too.
On block: 3%. Only steals 3/20 of a bar of meter, EX steals about 3/10 of a bar.
Useful for: Although his zoning is mediocre, when you are zoning or at least far from the opponent this becomes an important arrow for hindering your opponent's offensive and wakeup options as well as defensive options like armour and breakers. I tend to keep this one on pretty often until I'm happy the opponent has as little meter as I want them to have then I switch to stun arrow and begin offence. Also important for matchups against characters who don't use meter in their combos so you take away the only tool they have that stops you from hitting them hard too.
Fire arrow (DD1) -
On hit: 9%. Does more damage than a normal arrow and laucnhes the opponent unlike the other arrows, EX fire arrows do 12% damage.
On block: 3.13%. Does more chip damage, with EX fire arrows doing even more chip at 4.25%.
Useful for: Bnbs, converting from a stun arrow starter into big meterless damage, extra chip damage and more damaging combos. Great for very high damage meterless corner combos. Use more often nearer the end of the game when midscreen to chip the opponent out or get that killing damage.
F2D1~load arrow, D1, ender : Use this to load an arrow of your choice on hit. For example load stun arrow after the F2D1 then D1, 11, instant air divekick, 34~DD2 to restand your opponent and set up a corner mixup. Or load meter drain arrow and take some meter, or equip fire arrow and do some damage. Be careful as this setup is -10 on block which is punishable by pretty much everybody in the cast.On block: 3.13%. Does more chip damage, with EX fire arrows doing even more chip at 4.25%.
Useful for: Bnbs, converting from a stun arrow starter into big meterless damage, extra chip damage and more damaging combos. Great for very high damage meterless corner combos. Use more often nearer the end of the game when midscreen to chip the opponent out or get that killing damage.
CornerOptimal Vampiric Arrow usage:
3 arrow combos (takes about a bar and 1/5th:
With vampiric arrow loaded first: F2D1~DB2, 34~DB2, D1~DD2 = 16% (takes a bar and 1/5)
With stun arrow loaded first: starter~DF2/DD2, DF1, NJP, JK~OH arrow, JK~OH arrow, 11, IADK, 34~DD2 = roughly 29%ish depending on starter (takes about a bar and 1/4)
Ancestrals (if you want to to tag them in a tech thread for example)@Youphemism
@RM NoBrows
@HanSolo
@Envythis
Chris to the G
@MF SLAYER
@Poser Paul
@buyacushun
@Envythis
@STB CoRzz
@KIllaByte
I only really equip fire arrows near the end of the game where the extra chip will come in handy, and MB fire arrows can do some decent chip and damage on hit too for the end game play.
