Amplified (EX, MB) moves — Universal inputs are back

[Johnny Based Cage]

Literally no point, or value to the old system and very much for the best in every perceivable metric that its gone.

Not true at all: it allows people like Spam2Dave to think they’re elite because they’re able to memorize the new amplify commands alongside the two projectile specials they learn how to do.

 

[KingHippo]

When I played the game, I found that system to be pretty unintuitive. It often involved inputting a direction and sometimes a different button than the special was done with, and it was different for literally every special and every character. Just seemed unnecessary, I don't know of any game that would demand that the metered moves that aren't supers take any additional input other than maybe a similar strength button. Completely indifferent to the change.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

^ An OPTION for the new-cum-dead input scheme, would have sufficed.... But, alas -- ¢a$uali$m is as tyrannical and uncompromising a backwards ideology, as any that this species has ever evacuated from its collective rectum.

Here’s an idea, bro: you still press whatever super elite button combinations you want while hitting the interactable button to amplify your moves so that you can continue to brag about your absolute executional mastery while those of us who actually wanna focus on the fundamentals of the fighting game don’t have to compete with the superior intellect and dexterity it takes for you to also hit “up + square.”

Matter of fact, maybe you can do a fucking headstand while you amplify your specials to really show us casuals who’s boss.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Yet another proof that NRS listnes, i could wager 16bit was actually reading the thread on that topic and was convinced that it's more convenient to return to a single universal button to enhance/amplify specials. Fantastic work.

Actually NRS said at the start that this wasn’t final and that they were still playing with it. I think when people say ‘NRS listened’, they’re usually not taking into account that developers are also real people with differing opinions, who make plenty of their own observations about what they like/don’t like and will act accordingly.

16 bit also isn’t a gameplay designer

 

[JDM]

Why are people getting so defensive because some prefer a slightly more complex system? Relax.

NRS games are way too simple imo and need some type of edge to execution to make it have more longevity. It's so easy to let go of a game like MKX/Injustice when you don't really feel like your effort that goes into the game gives a proper output at a certain point in the games life.

 

[Scyther]

...And life -- not just frivolous gaming -- will continue to feel that way ("taxing and downright prohibitive"), if one cannot or is (most likely) unwilling to create of new neural pathways ('connectomes'). Genuine disabilities (colour-blindness, physical handicaps, missing digits / limbs etc.) aside, any argument or complaint revolving around something being "too hard" or "inaccessible", is an effective argument against evolution.

Protesting for easier or more homogenised input command schemes in fighting games, is tantamount to boycotting one's running of a military obstacle course -- because it's "too hard" -- and then still expecting to be accepted into the armed services (i.e., for the threshold for entry into a the group, to condescend to one's sensibilities). To reconcile the analogy: If exampled military were to nevertheless accept someone unwilling to undertake their training regime (because it was "too hard"), it would clearly undermine the effectiveness of said military.

Just sayin' ¯\_(v_v)_/¯

Has nothing to do with aptitude or laziness ala the military, education, or life in general. It's not life or death, either.

Rather, it's just a video game. I am genuinely sorry if this change has made the game less appealing to you, but it seems like even the devs weren't entirely keen on the extra inputs for amplifications. No reason to make the game more inaccessible to casual gamers. Not everyone has the time to invest so heavily in a game. Kudos to those that do, but, well,

Just sayin'

 

[DDustiNN]

Still have to disagree and will say all throws forward or backwards in 2d fighting game should be teched universally with a button press regardless of where you are on the screen. Yes all fighting games are offensive does not mean we can't have standard defensive options like the ability to consistently break throws that already take damage when done correctly.

Just my opinion though not a fact.

I agree 100%. I don’t like losing because I lost a coin toss... I’d rather lose because I just suck.

 

[Bloodfang]

It probably would have been best to make it an Option to switch between "New" and "Classic" Amplified Inputs. That way the elitists and non-elitists can both play their way. I understand that a lot of people like ultra-hardcore diff modes on games but I personally lack the dexterity and skills for that. Most "true gamers" would simply tell me that if I can't "git gud" I don't deserve to play and enjoy the same games they enjoy. I dislike it even more when game designers have that philosophy. Like I really really wanted to play Nioh as I have a love for samurai/ninja culture/history. Unfortunately it was a Dark Souls style game and therefore "not made for filthy casuals" like myself (despite not being casual, I've been playing games the entirety of my nearly 37 years I'm just extremely mediocre at execution).

I'm not saying the new proposed inputs would have made the hardcore only, I certainly would have been just as capable of memorizing/executing them. My argument is more about how some of the negative responses to the retro-change seem to be dangerously close to "the new inputs would have made it harder for casuals or less skilled people to pick up and learn the game so that obviously makes them intrinsically better because fuck anyone who's not competetive-tier."

 

[DDustiNN]

Bit mentioned interactable but he also said block at one point. I hope it's still block, because if not, it's going to totally throw my MK button layout off. I always kept block in the middle and kept my buttons as much like the old arcade games as possible.

I do hope he misspoke, and it actually is block. But only because that’s what I’m used to, and it will be a pain for me to adjust.

I mean, I could never get used to using L2 to delay wake-up in Injustice 2, simply because it is ingrained into my brain to hold down. Even though I know it’s L2, I still hold down every time, and don’t think I’ve ever once actually done one correctly.

 

[Bloodfang]

I do hope he misspoke, and it actually is block. But only because that’s what I’m used to, and it will be a pain for me to adjust.

I mean, I could never get used to using L2 to delay wake-up in Injustice 2, simply because it is ingrained into my brain to hold down. Even though I know it’s L2, I still hold down every time, and don’t think I’ve ever once actually done one correctly.

LOL, yeah. The muscle memory alone would f' up execution for me. I'd keep hitting the wrong button from playing 9 and X SO much, fail, and be like "Damnit.. you know they changed it dumbass..."

 

[KingHippo]

Why are people getting so defensive because some prefer a slightly more complex system? Relax.

NRS games are way too simple imo and need some type of edge to execution to make it have more longevity. It's so easy to let go of a game like MKX/Injustice when you don't really feel like your effort that goes into the game gives a proper output at a certain point in the games life.

I'm not defensive, but I'm curious as to how this would be even a slightly more complex system. This would cease to be an execution barrier after maybe...two weeks of play? It was entirely arbitrary, and even by the end of one day of playing I knew which buttons to press, but just needed to remember which buttons. Which means that all it would do was be kind of confusing for people who don't obsessively play and pointless to those who don't, which is exactly the wrong kind of depth.

 

[Jynks]

Adding unique combo enders does nothing to the game play but just makes it so there is more boring memorization. All it means is that it will take longer to learn a new character.. the "game play decision" to meter burn or not is exactly the same. There is no coloration between unneeded complexity and skill levels. This change was a must have form the moment the unique combo enders were announced. I am glad they have come around to a much MUCH better way of doing things.

 

[Gamer68]

• NRS: We are adding the Meterburn system from Injustice but calling it "Amplified" moves instead, also all Amplified moves have a unique input now.
• COMMUNITY: Why would you do that? Completely unnecessary change.
• NRS: Thank you for the feedback. We listened and decided to change all Amplified moves to have a universal input.
  
• COMMUNITY: WTF? Why do you keep catering to casuals? *Queue 5 pages of back and forth arguments and god knows how many status updates*
• NRS:

 

[Bloodfang]

Game Developer Pro-Tip # 1: ::Que classic Shao Kahn taunt:: "You will never win."

 

[JDM]

I'm not defensive, but I'm curious as to how this would be even a slightly more complex system. This would cease to be an execution barrier after maybe...two weeks of play? It was entirely arbitrary, and even by the end of one day of playing I knew which buttons to press, but just needed to remember which buttons. Which means that all it would do was be kind of confusing for people who don't obsessively play and pointless to those who don't, which is exactly the wrong kind of depth.

Panic specials could be blundered in the heat of a match for sure. Playing two characters with similar specials could result in a blunder in a heated match as well. I think Krushing blows is a fantastic way to make characters more distinct and unique, combined with amplified moves being different as well. As it stands, NRS games are INCREDIBLY simple to play a new character. You can essentially play a top tier character after watching a few high level matches at an ok level if you're good enough. I just feel like something needs to be done to make characters more unique and reward people who actually master a character, rather than playing the right one.

 

[M2Dave]

When I played the game, I found that system to be pretty unintuitive. It often involved inputting a direction and sometimes a different button than the special was done with, and it was different for literally every special and every character. Just seemed unnecessary, I don't know of any game that would demand that the metered moves that aren't supers take any additional input other than maybe a similar strength button. Completely indifferent to the change.

The fact that no other fighting game has difficult inputs should have been a motivation for NRS to implement something new and different. Nobody is saying that difficult amplified special moves would have turned the game into Virtua Fighter in terms of depth, but their inclusion would have been a step into the right direction, particularly if combined with other gameplay mechanics. Difficult amplified special moves might have also caused counter picking at a high level to be a little bit more difficult. If you have to learn five or six new commands for every character that you decide to use, the chances of execution errors are more likely.

Disappointingly, NRS reverts the system to its previous state because this community is predictably lazy, spoiled, and stubborn. I am not surprised that casual gamers are celebrating this change, but I am surprised that many people on a website propagated around competitive play are supporting this change. While the Street Fighter and Tekken communities actively demand more profound gameplay, the NRS community would like to keep all gameplay aspects as simplified as possible.

Panic specials could be blundered in the heat of a match for sure. Playing two characters with similar specials could result in a blunder in a heated match as well. I think Krushing blows is a fantastic way to make characters more distinct and unique, combined with amplified moves being different as well. As it stands, NRS games are INCREDIBLY simple to play a new character. You can essentially play a top tier character after watching a few high level matches at an ok level if you're good enough. I just feel like something needs to be done to make characters more unique and reward people who actually master a character, rather than playing the right one.

Phenomenal post. Well-said.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The fact that no other fighting game has difficult inputs

Erm, what?

Anime would like a word with you about that.

And by the way these weren't difficult inputs; just lots of simple ones, requiring a bunch of rote memorization.

 

[theotherguy]

I do not think a 50\50 guess on throws is depth or should be considered unique.

I always figured it was a way to make you try and read the situation more. If you're in a corner, then chances are they're going to throw you into the corner, so while it's still a 50/50, you'd probably tech for the corner throw and be right in most cases.

For all the talk of lack of depth, i think that is one thing that does add a little extra to the mind games, assuming you can react and input the tech in time as well.

 

[Gamer68]

the NRS community would like to keep all gameplay aspects as simplified as possible.

I don't really think this is true. Just because some people are glad to see the universal input that all past NRS games had return doesn't mean we want ALL gameplay aspects to be as simplified as possible.

 

[M2Dave]

Erm, what?

Anime would like a word with you about that.

And by the way these weren't difficult inputs; just lots of simple ones, requiring a bunch of rote memorization.

I do not play anime fighting games. Besides, I was just quoting what Hippo had originally said. Now please stop fishing for irrelevant mistakes that have nothing to do with the main argument and say something of value once in a while.

I don't really think this is true. Just because some people are glad to see the universal input that all past NRS games had return doesn't mean we want ALL gameplay aspects to be as simplified as possible.

I can provide many examples. The community most recently freaked out when running was removed as though running were the only remedy to zoning. The NRS community is ten years behind the Street Fighter and Tekken communities in terms of fundamental fighting game knowledge.

 

[Aramonde]

Great! Now, as a disabled player, I have to map my entire joystick in a more complicated way just so I can TRY to fit in with a non-inclusive mechanic changed because a group of players is too lazy to decorate some more moves. If it was still in the Injustice 2 scheme or the old block button, ok, but no.

A great day to regret having pre-ordered. First, the extra Beta Test for those who live in the US, now this shit. Please, if you are going to make that change, at least return to the block button.

I like both. I haven’t played it but it seemed fine. I prefer just pressing block to burn meter (why the switch?) but I didn’t mind the change of individual input. I can see why they changed it because it’s the “wrong kind of difficult” but I don’t think they should scrap the feature. Use it in towers or something like that.

They need to make the amplify button stance switch. The reason block is bad is if you whiff a special move and the opponent is coming at you and you block the amplify could happen if you press block to early. The same thing could possibly happen if your next to an interactable.

Why not make it a button that people rarely ever use? Or why doesn't NRS just get rid of this useless button and make characters auto turn facing the camera like every other fighting game?

 

[KingHippo]

Nobody is saying that difficult amplified special moves would have turned the game into Virtua Fighter in terms of depth

They're not difficult, though! That's the whole point I'm trying to say, it was the same as it were a MB special in MKX or Injustice just with a different input, you could literally mash it! At an event where there's no real information other than just playing it into muscle memory, it may have seemed difficult, but it was going to not be a problem after a week or two. After that it would just be an unintuitive design, which is probably why it's gone now.

If the games were to be less simple you'd need to change how projectiles work and maybe make movement a little more difficult, but neither of those things are happening more than what's already been done.

 

[Gamer68]

I can provide many examples. The community most recently freaked out when running was removed as though running were the only remedy to zoning. The NRS community is ten years behind the Street Fighter and Tekken communities in terms of fundamental fighting game knowledge.

I remember a LOT of the community pre-reveal asking for them to remove running, though. I specifically remember how on this site a lot of people were talking about how they want "footsies back". Sure I saw some people freak out, but I think most people overall don't really care too much. The main complaints I've seen has been about the emphasis being put on literally just WALKING and dashes not really being that good.

Besides, a major mechanic change is going to generate some kneejerk reactions. I still don't think this means that NRS community as a whole wants all gameplay mechanics simplified.

 

[M2Dave]

They're not difficult, though! That's the whole point I'm trying to say, it was the same as it were a MB special in MKX or Injustice just with a different input, you could literally mash it! At an event where there's no real information other than just playing it into muscle memory, it may have seemed difficult, but it was going to not be a problem after a week or two. After that it would just be an unintuitive design, which is probably why it's gone now.

If the games were to be less simple you'd need to change how projectiles work and maybe make movement a little more difficult, but neither of those things are happening more than what's already been done.

We will have to agree to disagree. You are tapping two consecutive commands. There would have been nothing "unintuitive" about this system in my opinion. I genuinely believe the difficult inputs were removed because Ed Boon was bombarded by complaints from casual gamers on Twitter. I am certain some high level players complained too because they want easy access to counter picking.

I would also support more difficult zoning and movement options, but I know these things will never happen in this community.

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

Great news, thank You, NRS-team!