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ALL YOU DO IS THE SAME MOVE OVER AND OVER!

M

mcnabulous

Noob
The issue I have with"spammers" isn't fairness, it's what's fun. I get that they're playing to win. But unless they're a professional gamer and they're training for a big tournament, they're also playing for fun, right? That's why most people play games, to have fun. So is using the same move over and over again fun?

I play multiplayer games for the competition. I've done some co-op games, but I usually either play single player or competitive multiplayer. But I don't play other people just to see my my number of wins go up. Numbers by themselves aren't fun. I'd rather lose in a close, competitive match than dominate someone with far superior skills. If I just wanted to crush an opponent, I could just play against easy AI or my little sister.

Can you appreciate that many players don't get online to follow the textbook formula for how to get around spammers? I have beaten some spammers, but sometimes it just doesn't seem worth the effort. Besides, even if you are a pro or semi-pro player, does it really help improve your skills to crush someone who doesn't really care about their W/L ratio? If you dominate the match, no one wins. Your skills aren't tested and the other guy might be discouraged from playing and improving his own skills. The only thing you get is a meaningless number that doesn't really reflect your skills. But if you go a little easy on them, you both get to play a close match and they might learn something.

So when a pro player beats a scrub, do they really win? Does that win mean anything?
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
mcnabulous said:
The issue I have with"spammers" isn't fairness, it's what's fun. I get that they're playing to win. But unless they're a professional gamer and they're training for a big tournament, they're also playing for fun, right? That's why most people play games, to have fun. So is using the same move over and over again fun?

I play multiplayer games for the competition. I've done some co-op games, but I usually either play single player or competitive multiplayer. But I don't play other people just to see my my number of wins go up. Numbers by themselves aren't fun. I'd rather lose in a close, competitive match than dominate someone with far superior skills. If I just wanted to crush an opponent, I could just play against easy AI or my little sister.

Can you appreciate that many players don't get online to follow the textbook formula for how to get around spammers? I have beaten some spammers, but sometimes it just doesn't seem worth the effort. Besides, even if you are a pro or semi-pro player, does it really help improve your skills to crush someone who doesn't really care about their W/L ratio? If you dominate the match, no one wins. Your skills aren't tested and the other guy might be discouraged from playing and improving his own skills. The only thing you get is a meaningless number that doesn't really reflect your skills. But if you go a little easy on them, you both get to play a close match and they might learn something.

So when a pro player beats a scrub, do they really win? Does that win mean anything?
Click to expand...
This is the problem. People take online waaaayyyy too seriously. A win online means almost as much as a win in offline casuals: Nothing. What you DO get from it is experience and knowledge. So yeah, if you just sit back and zone the whole time you may win, but you dont learn anything. Sometimes it is better to experiment, maybe try rushing them down and seeing if you can do that. Maybe let them in and then practice getting them back out. All of these things are far more productive then just sitting back and chucking fireballs. The hard part of zoning is NOT the actual zoning itself, it is what to do when they break your zoning. So all these players have this awesome zoning, and then someone breaks it and they dont know what to do.

That being said its a game, people will do what they want. If they like sitting at fullscreen shooting away then they will continue to do that, and they have that right. But if someone really is looking to get better, then this strategy is not nearly as effective.
 
Living Corpse

Living Corpse

Noob
I did do the same move over and over online. I don't really play online though, I'm not that good, I just wanted that Yellow Lantern skin and kept rejoining the ranked matches till I found another scrub who was worse then me.:p
 
skateblind

skateblind

Noob
Zoidberg747 said:
What you DO get from it is experience and knowledge. So yeah, if you just sit back and zone the whole time you may win, but you dont learn anything.

That being said its a game, people will do what they want. If they like sitting at fullscreen shooting away then they will continue to do that, and they have that right. But if someone really is looking to get better, then this strategy is not nearly as effective.
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You can learn how to correctly zone and how to do it differently depending on the character and the opponent's play style. Zoning is no different from any other style of play. You can learn, you can have fun and it can be a good fight.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Noob
as much as things like aquman's trait or superman's f23 annoy me, there is a way to deal with them. Especially after watching ECT today, man the ppl in top 8 knew there matchups well. That's visual evidence that shows that everything has a way to be countered. Level up ppl, it's only been a month, things will change.
 
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
MITDJT said:
as much as things like aquman's trait or superman's f23 annoy me, there is a way to deal with them. Especially after watching ECT today, man the ppl in top 8 knew there matchups well. That's visual evidence that shows that everything has a way to be countered. Level up ppl, it's only been a month, things will change.
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How would you deal with AM's trait? Only way I've found(with my mains) is cancelling into Bane's command grab.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Noob
RYX said:
How would you deal with AM's trait? Only way I've found(with my mains) is cancelling into Bane's command grab.
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it definitely doesn't have a complete way you can deal with it, i'd agree with that. the only way is command grabs or hit him with a move that bounces him in the air like Nightwings b2 in escrima. It isn't easy, but i'm sure ppl will find out more stuff over time.
 
Reactions: RYX
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
MITDJT said:
it definitely doesn't have a complete way you can deal with it, i'd agree with that. the only way is command grabs or hit him with a move that bounces him in the air like Nightwings b2 in escrima. It isn't easy, but i'm sure ppl will find out more stuff over time.
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So command grabs and moves that are one hit pop ups work?

That's actually really good to know, I'm gonna need to look more into that.
 
M

mcnabulous

Noob
Zoidberg747 said:
This is the problem. People take online waaaayyyy too seriously. A win online means almost as much as a win in offline casuals: Nothing. What you DO get from it is experience and knowledge. So yeah, if you just sit back and zone the whole time you may win, but you dont learn anything. Sometimes it is better to experiment, maybe try rushing them down and seeing if you can do that. Maybe let them in and then practice getting them back out. All of these things are far more productive then just sitting back and chucking fireballs. The hard part of zoning is NOT the actual zoning itself, it is what to do when they break your zoning. So all these players have this awesome zoning, and then someone breaks it and they dont know what to do.

That being said its a game, people will do what they want. If they like sitting at fullscreen shooting away then they will continue to do that, and they have that right. But if someone really is looking to get better, then this strategy is not nearly as effective.
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Why shouldn't people take online seriously? Some of us don't have access to a vibrant local fighting game community. So when we're done with story mode, online is the only thing left unless we like beating our heads against the wall trying to 3-star all the star lab missions, and even that doesn't take that long. I saw one guy on here discouraging someone from playing online because the lag makes it different from competitive local play. So what am I supposed to do? All my friends and family either play shooters, RPGs or no games at all.

You guys should take the online community more seriously. Fighting games are still fairly niche, so you need all the new players you can get. Yet jerks online who care more about getting meaningless wins with cheap tactics drive new players away and stagnate the growth of the community and fighting games in general. I realize there's not much you can do to change the larger culture, but it would help if you didn't put all the blame for the issue on those making the complaints.
 
miloPKL

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
Juggs nice write up, i remember when i first came here i enjoyed your philosophy stickies from the old days. but i must say i cant seem to get passed this logic; "its my job to win. its your job to stop me." i mean whats to misunderstand about that?

thankfully i have also passed the point where i would care to enlighten anyone with such a bad attitude anyway.

i gotta say i really dont have time for that attitude, not even to raise my points and try to correct bad behaviour. i know that those kinds of people who complain - if i beat them in basketball or street racing or a boxing match, they would discount the win anyway. it doesnt matter how you win, the fact you won is enough for these guys to discount the win.

you should know what you are getting into when you get into it. its not worth the time or effort to enlighten idiots is what im saying. if you just wiped the floor with someone and they sent you a critical message, you must ignore it. you must not succumb to the bait. you must not lower yourself to their level. you must take it in your stride. every time you flex that muscle it gets a little stronger. the less considerate of the opponent you become and the less willing you are to distract yourself by entering an argument you already know the outcome.

i guess thats another point too, in life. if you truly know you are right, you do not need to re-enforce yourself by debating. if you feel so strongly about something, you will have debated it and drawn the conclusion already. affirming yourself by dishing out an unbeatable written smackdown is only showing your insecurity, not showing your strength to persevere.
 
J

jace lancer

Noob
SilverKeyMan said:
Whenever someone "spams" to beat me, I get frustrated with my lack of ability to get around it. I'll rematch them over and over, taking loss after loss, until I figure out how to get around the stupid thing.
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I try to do that. But every time they quit after 2 or 3 wins.their health slowly ending lower and lower. The only people that like to keep going, seems we just get disconnected eventually... :/
 
MetalPete

MetalPete

MACHKAAAAA!!!!!
aldazo said:
A game where repeating the same move over and over is the best method to win is a boring game with a bad design, period. People can write tons of paragraphs about "playing to win" but it will not change the fact that if you "play to win" a game where you have to use more of your moves arsenal you would get more fun from your victories.
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Thank you. There is a huge difference between being able to strategically incorporate varied moves into a string of attacks and "strategically" retreating/waiting, throwing projectiles to keep zone, then hope the 1 combo you memorized connects. The only way someone "adapts" to these kind of players is to pick 1 or 2 characters that can beat them at their own game (hello Mr. Adam). I'm not sure why we can't acknowledge that certain characters are ridiculously exploited. Instead we see a well-written paper on how these repetitive moves are actually a sign of a skilled and strategic player

True, you have learn how to play against those players and it does make you better, but it makes for very boring matches. I don't want to see you pick Deathstroke just as much as much as you don't want to see me pick Black Adam.


That's not the game nor developer's fault either; unfortunately, it's the people who the play the game.
 
aldazo

aldazo

Waiting for Havik
MetalPete said:
That's not the game nor developer's fault either; unfortunately, it's the people who the play the game.
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To be honest I think is not developer's "fault" but it was in their minds when developed the game, giving strong "tools" to (supposedly) every character in order to balance the game that way. Also, the game favoring "keep away" or zoning was also the developer's intentions. But I agree that some players don't mind if it looks cheap they will do the same over and over in order to win which is legit but... oh well...
 
Rabbit

Rabbit

thugs bunny
A lot of these comments are really sad seeing as this is a competitive gaming forum.

So instead of having the option of zoning, people would just rather see players rush in, dial safe strings over and over, jump around kicking to fish for an air-to-air and have the round end in just 4 hit-confirms?

A majority of the players now have zero patience when it comes to games and I'm really surprised a lot of members on here are still trying to help these babies out because none of the even listen.
 
aldazo

aldazo

Waiting for Havik
It is sad to read some comments about TYM being a "competitive gaming forum" when there are 14 164 members from which no more than 200 are really "competitive" players that attend tourneys, less if you count the good players and even less if you think about "pros". Fact is that the majority of members are casual players that want to improve their game but it doesn' make them "competitive" players instantly. And the funny thing is that people that make those comments usually are casuals that think they are "competitive".
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
Zoidberg747 said:
This is the problem. People take online waaaayyyy too seriously. A win online means almost as much as a win in offline casuals: Nothing. What you DO get from it is experience and knowledge. So yeah, if you just sit back and zone the whole time you may win, but you dont learn anything. Sometimes it is better to experiment, maybe try rushing them down and seeing if you can do that. Maybe let them in and then practice getting them back out. All of these things are far more productive then just sitting back and chucking fireballs. The hard part of zoning is NOT the actual zoning itself, it is what to do when they break your zoning. So all these players have this awesome zoning, and then someone breaks it and they dont know what to do.

That being said its a game, people will do what they want. If they like sitting at fullscreen shooting away then they will continue to do that, and they have that right. But if someone really is looking to get better, then this strategy is not nearly as effective.
Click to expand...
The problem has nothing to do with online vs offline, casual vs pro.. The problem is people take video games WAYYYYY to seriously. Offline casual wins mean- nothing
Online competitive wins mean- nothing
Offline competitive wins mean? That's right- nothing.

Add up all the number of professional players in all fighters.. Now from that number how many can say that gaming pays them to sustain a life where gaming is all they do without backup finances (aka: a job).. Maybe 5% (being VERY generous), or less? So you have a game that sells millions.. Hundreds of thousands play story mode, beat it and sell it, Thousands keep it and participate online, Thousands compete "competitively" at travel tournaments... In my opinion, the only people who should be taking this game seriously are those making money from it- and I am not talking $100 here, $1000 there, I mean, the game is their job. I know it's going to burst bubbles and egos, but that makes the rest of us playing competitively for fun.

Realistically speaking we are only 2 generations in on "online play".. It can only get better with time as generations improve. With the way streaming goes, with each generation system showing online advances, it is only a matter of time before online tournaments (recorded or not) start becoming viable and the whole "live to online scene" has no line separating the two. I believe this to be a good thing and hope the day comes sooner rather than later. This will make the numbers jump up like never seen before, people unable to attend or have a local scene can compete and the online vs offline battle can finally die. Also dying will be the "competitive" gamer trying to scrape dimes together or begging for rides to get to a tournament. Both of which I am fine with.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
xWEBSx said:
The problem has nothing to do with online vs offline, casual vs pro.. The problem is people take video games WAYYYYY to seriously. Offline casual wins mean- nothing
Online competitive wins mean- nothing
Offline competitive wins mean? That's right- nothing.

Add up all the number of professional players in all fighters.. Now from that number how many can say that gaming pays them to sustain a life where gaming is all they do without backup finances (aka: a job).. Maybe 5% (being VERY generous), or less? So you have a game that sells millions.. Hundreds of thousands play story mode, beat it and sell it, Thousands keep it and participate online, Thousands compete "competitively" at travel tournaments... In my opinion, the only people who should be taking this game seriously are those making money from it- and I am not talking $100 here, $1000 there, I mean, the game is their job. I know it's going to burst bubbles and egos, but that makes the rest of us playing competitively for fun.

Realistically speaking we are only 2 generations in on "online play".. It can only get better with time as generations improve. With the way streaming goes, with each generation system showing online advances, it is only a matter of time before online tournaments (recorded or not) start becoming viable and the whole "live to online scene" has no line separating the two. I believe this to be a good thing and hope the day comes sooner rather than later. This will make the numbers jump up like never seen before, people unable to attend or have a local scene can compete and the online vs offline battle can finally die. Also dying will be the "competitive" gamer trying to scrape dimes together or begging for rides to get to a tournament. Both of which I am fine with.
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Offline competitive wins actually means money. And/or actual credibility within the community. Is it much in the long run? No. Is more than NOTHING? yes. If you go to a tournament and win more than you pay to go to it, that is something. However, I get your point and it is valid.
 
Rabbit

Rabbit

thugs bunny
aldazo said:
It is sad to read some comments about TYM being a "competitive gaming forum" when there are 14 164 members from which no more than 200 are really "competitive" players that attend tourneys, less if you count the good players and even less if you think about "pros". Fact is that the majority of members are casual players that want to improve their game but it doesn' make them "competitive" players instantly. And the funny thing is that people that make those comments usually are casuals that think they are "competitive".
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Couldn't quote me huh? Typical.

Competitive computer and video gaming is the act of playing a computer or video game in a competitive sense. This includes, but is not limited to, playing these games over an Internet or LAN connection with the intention of winning over the other player(s). Other examples of competitive gaming include the attaining of a best possible time in a time attack or speedrun.

You can twist things anyway you like but sites like TYM and SRK are geared towards competitive gamers. It doesn't mean "casuals" should be excluded or looked down on but they shouldn't be surprised when they flood forums with crying about "cheap stuff" or demand nerfs for others to tell them stfu.

Yes, I know there are people here that don't plan on going to tournaments (or have no scene) and just want to be able to play against someone who knows what they are doing online.

And no I'm not a casual that thinks they are competitive, I actually go out and support my local scene. Thanks for assuming though. What about you?
 
M

mcnabulous

Noob
Zoidberg747 said:
Offline competitive wins actually means money. And/or actual credibility within the community. Is it much in the long run? No. Is more than NOTHING? yes. If you go to a tournament and win more than you pay to go to it, that is something. However, I get your point and it is valid.
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Just because you can win money in offline competitive play doesn't mean we shouldn't take online play seriously. For many players, it's the only thing left to do in the game after we beat the story mode. And like I said in post 86, the success and viability of online play helps the offline competitive scene thrive. You should care about it as well.
 
aldazo

aldazo

Waiting for Havik
Rabbit said:
Competitive computer and video gaming is the act of playing a computer or video game in a competitive sense. This includes, but is not limited to, playing these games over an Internet or LAN connection with the intention of winning over the other player(s). Other examples of competitive gaming include the attaining of a best possible time in a time attack or speedrun.
Click to expand...
Then everyone that plays a fighting games is a "competitive" player by your definition, very clever but pointless.

Rabbit said:
You can twist things anyway you like but sites like TYM and SRK are geared towards competitive gamers.
Click to expand...
By your definiton then TYM is geared toward every (MK or Injustice) gamer because the goal of the game is "winning over the other player"

Rabbit said:
Yes, I know there are people here that don't plan on going to tournaments (or have no scene) and just want to be able to play against someone who knows what they are doing online.

And no I'm not a casual that thinks they are competitive, I actually go out and support my local scene. Thanks for assuming though. What about you?
Click to expand...
Yes, I support my "local scene" (me and my brothers) every weekend :).
 
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