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General/Other - Alien Alien Looks To Have Hurbox On Tail for Oct 4 Update!

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
"All the times he doesn't have the clone"

When is that, chief?

All block strings he does will instantly be safe by canceling into ice clone. This will take away the other player's ability to start offense at all.

Sub mains can play the ice clone all game if they want, one of those ice balls will catch the opponent.

It won't be the quickest dominant performance, but it'll be dominant regardless.
When? Well when the clone is on cool down. When a projectile or a clone toss removes it... It sounds like you're suggesting disjointed hitboxes give players footsies against sub when in reality they completely destroy GM and dominate him. GM has a special type of keep away just like you can't jump anywhere against Kitana, you can't run at sub.

And all his blockstrings into clone will be safe? Absolutely not. Teleport attacks and armor attacks fast enough which there are, projectiles that eat the clone and go through etc

Offense will not die when disjointed hitboxes are removed. No sub player ever has won games against decent players by throwing a 30 frame high projectile all game. Again sub requires different footsies. You can't rush him you have to punish him.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Kano currently has some of the best footsies in the game...he loses to GM Sub.

This would be absolutely universal. Especially since projectiles can't go through the clone.
Kanos main reason for loss is that he doesn't have a reversal that's worth much for clone cancels. I don't know if up ball even hits sub and he can't combo forward ball because it doesn't move him forward. He has great projectiles to combat sub. Also cybernetic does well against GM
 

FinalBoss_FGC

Day -4MONTHS Dual Jin main
When? Well when the clone is on cool down. When a projectile or a clone toss removes it... It sounds like you're suggesting disjointed hitboxes give players footsies against sub when in reality they completely destroy GM and dominate him. GM has a special type of keep away just like you can't jump anywhere against Kitana, you can't run at sub.

And all his blockstrings into clone will be safe? Absolutely not. Teleport attacks and armor attacks fast enough which there are, projectiles that eat the clone and go through etc

Offense will not die when disjointed hitboxes are removed. No sub player ever has won games against decent players by throwing a 30 frame high projectile all game. Again sub requires different footsies. You can't rush him you have to punish him.
The reason KJ beats GM Sub is because b1 punishes most of his block strings into ice clone. Ex low chakram breaks clone too.

If b1 froze KJ when trying to punish those strings, that MU is even at best. Idk how you can rationalize someone being able to do a blockstring in the corner and then cancel into the best lock down tool in the entire game. The ONLY way out for some is interactable. But even then his overhead can catch you on the way up.

Dawg, stop trying to downplay clone. Like 90% of everybody says, "GM Sub has many dominant match ups, but he gets dominated on many too". You take away the ability to poke through clone, he doesn't get dominate by anybody...may not even lose to anybody. He has some of the best corner carry, a freezing projectile that exs into taking away a mid air projectile and still freezes, he has true 50/50s, general safety on some strings, great AA in s1, a low sliding special that covers like 3/4 screen AND decent damage. Him with just that is a decent character even in this broken game. You add a tool that freezes the opponent every time that they touch it, regardless of situation, regardless of move...you have some broke shit, regardless of cooldown.

Subby even beats A-List Cage, dude.
 

THTB

RIP Arez & Booya
The one thing that worries me is the Tarkatan GM matchup. That leads me to suspecting GM could be hit, too, as well as disjointed hitboxes in general.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
The reason KJ beats GM Sub is because b1 punishes most of his block strings into ice clone. Ex low chakram breaks clone too.

If b1 froze KJ when trying to punish those strings, that MU is even at best. Idk how you can rationalize someone being able to do a blockstring in the corner and then cancel into the best lock down tool in the entire game. The ONLY way out for some is interactable. But even then his overhead can catch you on the way up.

Dawg, stop trying to downplay clone. Like 90% of everybody says, "GM Sub has many dominant match ups, but he gets dominated on many too". You take away the ability to poke through clone, he doesn't get dominate by anybody...may not even lose to anybody. He has some of the best corner carry, a freezing projectile that exs into taking away a mid air projectile and still freezes, he has true 50/50s, general safety on some strings, great AA in s1, a low sliding special that covers like 3/4 screen AND decent damage. Him with just that is a decent character even in this broken game. You add a tool that freezes the opponent every time that they touch it, regardless of situation, regardless of move...you have some broke shit, regardless of cooldown.

Subby even beats A-List Cage, dude.
You don't have to justify your point by pointing out how my character is insane. I know how sub can dominate a lot of characters very easily in the corner. This whole argument was because you said sub kills footsies. Which is false and I proved it. It's not your typical spacing game, it's fighting sub around the clone.

The fact that this comes off as downplaying to you is baffling. Nowhere have I said his clone is fine, his corner game is fair etc

About KJ. Kung Jin dominates sub because of his hitboxes, but sub won't win anything behind the clone, and you forget Jin has range, safe mixups and great zoning, so he can frustrate sub and kill his midscreen game. His up kick down kick thing also goes past the clone and chakram punishes clone cancels too. B1 is not the end all be all of the mu. Corner is corner, it's a mixer for sub, even I can admit it. Guess right pretty much.

Only way out is interactable? *sigh again countless armor, teleports, clone pasing projectiles. I mean... Idk what to tell you.

Those things that people say about sub? Yeah I say them too lol. You're correct sub loses big and wins big. If all disjointed hitboxes leave then yeah most or all his matchups become 5-5s or 6-4 other characters. Because like I said hitboxes ain't the only thing that sub loses too.

Why is this an argument of why sub is a good character lol. I thought we were talking about footsies. Also subs basic design is bad. All his strings are -5 and less. His overhead is unsafe his low is unsafe. If he makes it safe he has a gap and burned bar. Also all his countless bugs.

Watch this be called downplaying again. *rolls eyes
 

FinalBoss_FGC

Day -4MONTHS Dual Jin main
You don't have to justify your point by pointing out how my character is insane. I know how sub can dominate a lot of characters very easily in the corner. This whole argument was because you said sub kills footsies. Which is false and I proved it. It's not your typical spacing game, it's fighting sub around the clone.

The fact that this comes off as downplaying to you is baffling. Nowhere have I said his clone is fine, his corner game is fair etc

About KJ. Kung Jin dominates sub because of his hitboxes, but sub won't win anything behind the clone, and you forget Jin has range, safe mixups and great zoning, so he can frustrate sub and kill his midscreen game. His up kick down kick thing also goes past the clone and chakram punishes clone cancels too. B1 is not the end all be all of the mu. Corner is corner, it's a mixer for sub, even I can admit it. Guess right pretty much.

Only way out is interactable? *sigh again countless armor, teleports, clone pasing projectiles. I mean... Idk what to tell you.

Those things that people say about sub? Yeah I say them too lol. You're correct sub loses big and wins big. If all disjointed hitboxes leave then yeah most or all his matchups become 5-5s or 6-4 other characters. Because like I said hitboxes ain't the only thing that sub loses too.

Why is this an argument of why sub is a good character lol. I thought we were talking about footsies. Also subs basic design is bad. All his strings are -5 and less. His overhead is unsafe his low is unsafe. If he makes it safe he has a gap and burned bar. Also all his countless bugs.

Watch this be called downplaying again. *rolls eyes
If ice clone connection didn't count as a hit, I'd agree with armoring out...but it does. So if you have clone out (or if you space clone correctly), nobody can armor out except those with multiple hits of armor.

And the reason I say he kills footsies - A LIST Cage has some of the best footsies in MKX.. cant f3 or d4 so he can't play footsies vs ice clone, CT Kano has some of the best footsies...can't use up slice, f2 or other normals or specials because he will freeze.

Yes, you can throw projectiles at Sub from mid to full screen, but if Sub has a meter...all he needs is to react and he is gobbling up the projectile and you are frozen into full combo dragging your ass to the corner lol

Every tele in the game is punishable.

Also, full screen against KJ...you shouldn't be standing behind clone. Up kick only travels the distance of the screen at the time...so if you throw out clone while he is in mid air, he will land in it. And if you do have clone out, take a step forward and crouch in it. KJ is going to either land in it and get frozen or he's going to miss it completely and be punished by slide lol
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
If ice clone connection didn't count as a hit, I'd agree with armoring out...but it does. So if you have clone out (or if you space clone correctly), nobody can armor out except those with multiple hits of armor.

And the reason I say he kills footsies - A LIST Cage has some of the best footsies in MKX.. cant f3 or d4 so he can't play footsies vs ice clone, CT Kano has some of the best footsies...can't use up slice, f2 or other normals or specials because he will freeze.

Yes, you can throw projectiles at Sub from mid to full screen, but if Sub has a meter...all he needs is to react and he is gobbling up the projectile and you are frozen into full combo dragging your ass to the corner lol

Every tele in the game is punishable.

Also, full screen against KJ...you shouldn't be standing behind clone. Up kick only travels the distance of the screen at the time...so if you throw out clone while he is in mid air, he will land in it. And if you do have clone out, take a step forward and crouch in it. KJ is going to either land in it and get frozen or he's going to miss it completely and be punished by slide lol
Armor breaks very rarely in midscreen. It's way more prominent in the corner.

And I say again, Kano and Johnny both lose because they don't have any decent clone countering moves. By all means they both can win however. 6-4 at most.

Also teleports and armor and everything else should be done as a reversal to clone cancels. That's what I mean. You're punishing a clone cancel not randomly teleporting or armoring. You missed my point there.

If I stand in front of the clone I'm subject to Jin's zoning and ex low chakram. Also you just basically proved my point being that you can't win by just standing behind a clone lol. Now his b1 and his overhead comes into play.

Up kick works to escape the clone. Since you can cancel up kick anytime, it serves a purpose to escape the corner and switch sides.
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
Sub-Zero probably received the most hatemail in MK9, too. And he was ranked, what, mid-20's out of 32 by consensus in that game?

"Dominate", "top-tier", "broken"..... not that it'll change perceptions, but you could wait and see all the patch notes first.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Because Alien's fucking tail has a hurtbox like it always should have now? Please explain how this makes Sub-Zero "stupid verses everyone" and "braindead" now.
Sorry the above people were discussing the chance of all extended limb characters being changed. I should have been clear.

He is flowchart as fuck against characters who cant get around the clone.