- A collection of the crazy

[CrimsonShadow]

However, as a mid 40's man, when I had my first kiss, it just happened. Today, I would be remiss if I didn't tell my sons, when they are of dating age, that they need to ASK before that moment. It may ruin the moment, but it will keep them safe. Today, even something as simple as a misread signal could lead to an uncomfortable moment that could have my child charged with sexual misconduct over a misread kiss. (and I don't mean something like taking flirtation as a viable reason to put a woman's hand on your genitals, or playful flirtation as a reason to flaunt and abuse your position of power)

Yeah.. I hear you. I'm just not sure it's so cut and dried. Plenty of kisses still just happen.. But I think context is important.

Like, in the context of dating, I can't really think of any cases where someone was convicted of sexual harassment over a kiss. But if you walk up to someone in the office and just kiss them, that's probably going to get you fired at best, and maybe convicted at worst. For sure, if you keep pursuing someone who has rejected your attempts to kiss them, it's going down a bad road that's going to land you in trouble (and it should).

Technically, even kissing someone when it was unwanted has been illegal since the 1970s, I believe.. It's just that you wouldn't get very far with the justice system.

I do think that it's smart of you to teach your sons to be understanding. I'm just not sure if it's quite as severe a backlash to standard dating process as some people are making it out to be.

 

[portent]

Yeah.. I hear you. I'm just not sure it's so cut and dried. Plenty of kisses still just happen.. But I think context is important.

Like, in the context of dating, I can't really think of any cases where someone was convicted of sexual harassment over a kiss. But if you walk up to someone in the office and just kiss them, that's probably going to get you fired at best, and maybe convicted at worst. For sure, if you keep pursuing someone who has rejected your attempts to kiss them, it's going down a bad road that's going to land you in trouble (and it should).

Technically, even kissing someone when it was unwanted has been illegal since the 1970s, I believe.. It's just that you wouldn't get very far with the justice system.

I do think that it's smart of you to teach your sons to be understanding. I'm just not sure if it's quite as severe a backlash to standard things as some people are making it out to be.

Fair enough, but as a victim of a false accusation myself, I'm overly cautious.

Remember when I said I've seen first-hand?

Here's what happened to me about 24 years ago :

I worked at a 24hr convenience store where I worked the late shift which ended at midnight. I lived with my Mom and my Stepmom at the time. I finished my shift and drove home. I walked in approximately at 12:15am. I immediately went to my room and turned on my radio and one of my favorite songs was on, and given the time frame, I used to keep a cassette in the radio to record my favorite songs if they came on.

Remember that, because it became a key component later on.

Suddenly, there were flashlights and people around our apartment, police looking in windows and knocking on doors. They knocked on our door, my mom answered and they said that there had been an attempted rape in the same apartment complex, 2 floors up, which had been allegedly perpetrated by a white male in his late teens to mid twenties.

You see where this is going, because at that time, I fit that description.

2 days later, at work, I was visited by a detective from our town and he asked me to come to the station with him and his partner after my shift ended. I agreed and after the shift, they took me and put me in an interrogation room and went at me. I won't go into the specifics, they're not important.

What is important, is that I agreed to be printed to clear my name because there was allegedly a flashlight involved with prints on them.

Once I got home, I REMEMBERED THE CASSETTE!

I called the radio station and asked them to provide the detective with a copy of the section of the broadcast from that time and date. It matched my recording perfectly.

A couple days later, the detective came to my job again and explained that the girl who cried rape was attempting to get back at her ex-boyfriend. She was sentenced to many hours of community service.

So yes, I plan on teaching my boys to exercise extreme caution.

Likewise, and let this be further evidence regarding compartmentalizing emotion and logical thinking, if that detective had not exercised logical thought, and simply believed the accusation of that girl, my life could have been drastically different, if not ruined.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Fair enough, but as a victim of a false accusation myself, I'm overly cautious.

Remember when I said I've seen first-hand?

Here's what happened to me about 24 years ago :

I worked at a 24hr convenience store where I worked the late shift which ended at midnight. I lived with my Mom and my Stepmom at the time. I finished my shift and drove home. I walked in approximately at 12:15am. I immediately went to my room and turned on my radio and one of my favorite songs was on, and given the time frame, I used to keep a cassette in the radio to record my favorite songs if they came on.

Remember that, because it became a key component later on.

Suddenly, there were flashlights and people around our apartment, police looking in windows and knocking on doors. They knocked on our door, my mom answered and they said that there had been an attempted rape in the same apartment complex, 2 floors up, which had been allegedly perpetrated by a white male in his late teens to mid twenties.

You see where this is going, because at that time, I fit that description.

2 days later, at work, I was visited by a detective from our town and he asked me to come to the station with him and his partner after my shift ended. I agreed and after the shift, they took me and put me in an interrogation room and went at me. I won't go into the specifics, they're not important.

What is important, is that I agreed to be printed to clear my name because there was allegedly a flashlight involved with prints on them.

Once I got home, I REMEMBERED THE CASSETTE!

I called the radio station and asked them to provide the detective with a copy of the section of the broadcast from that time and date. It matched my recording perfectly.

A couple days later, the detective came to my job again and explained that the girl who cried rape was attempting to get back at her ex-boyfriend. She was sentenced to many hours of community service.

So yes, I plan on teaching my boys to exercise extreme caution.

Likewise, and let this be further evidence regarding compartmentalizing emotion and logical thinking, if that detective had not exercised logical thought, and simply believed the accusation of that girl, my life could have been drastically different, if not ruined.

Yikes, that sucks and it's a terrible thing to have to go through. I'm sorry that you experienced that..

What I'm trying to figure out is, did the person specifically accuse you though, or did the police just bring you in as a suspect because you fit the description?

Either way that's unfortunate.. But it sounds like there's nothing you could have done differently in order to prevent it. Like, no amount of caution would prevent you being randomly ID'ed by a description while sitting in your bedroom (and that's exactly what a lot of people are protesting with the police stuff and BLM right now).

 

[portent]

That sucks and it's a terrible thing to have to go through. I'm sorry that you experienced that..

What I'm trying to figure out is, did the person specifically accuse you though, or did the police just bring you in as a suspect because you fit the description?

Either way that's unfortunate.. But it sounds like there's nothing you could have done differently in order to prevent it. Like, no amount of caution would prevent you being randomly ID'ed by a description (and that's exactly what a lot of people are protesting with the police stuff and BLM right now).

No, she said a white guy in his late teens/early 20's.

The point in my story is that accusations are only accusations. The detective may have been super pissed off, maybe not, at the situation. He did, however, compartmentalize any emotion, and instead was able to properly conclude that this girl was lying and making up a story.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Please don't misread my first post. I am NOT defending the accused!

I am defending the system by which our country determines someone to be guilty or innocent.

What these people have been accused of and admitted to is heinous. If they are guilty, they should have the book thrown at them and be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

People who defend that kind of behavior are fools. People who levy judgement without proof, or the ability to compartmentalize their emotions from rational, logical thought, are fools as well.

Also, I am NOT implying you're a fool. I'm saying that your moral compass shows me that I have reason to believe that you can compartmentalize and make logical decisions.

Oh, bro. You're good, 100%. I respect your years and brains and perspective. You've got to have the system, or at least A system in place. Ours may be a mess, but it still works more than it fails. Just like the culture that's arisen from decades on end of victims going unheard; it's worked more than it's failed. Although what happened to you is fucking terrifying and I am genuinely sorry you had to endure that.

 

[ForeverKing]

I'm really glad there's alot of people in this thread with common sense

 

[chud_munson]

Yeah.. I hear you. I'm just not sure it's so cut and dried. Plenty of kisses still just happen.. But I think context is important.

Like, in the context of dating, I can't really think of any cases where someone was convicted of sexual harassment over a kiss. But if you walk up to someone in the office and just kiss them, that's probably going to get you fired at best, and maybe convicted at worst. For sure, if you keep pursuing someone who has rejected your attempts to kiss them, it's going down a bad road that's going to land you in trouble (and it should).

Technically, even kissing someone when it was unwanted has been illegal since the 1970s, I believe.. It's just that you wouldn't get very far with the justice system.

I do think that it's smart of you to teach your sons to be understanding. I'm just not sure if it's quite as severe a backlash to standard dating process as some people are making it out to be.

What you're saying here is a really good point. If you're in sort of a typical courting/dating situation, you make a move, and the person's not into it, the right response is something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I misread that". I don't think many people are getting crucified for situations like that.

 

[Compbros]

How are people going "gun to her head, threatened her" and things like that? He put her hand there, she took it away because she didn't like it, then he put her hand there AGAIN. The problem is women don't know what to do in a situation like that because just going along with it means that the situation might not escalate while denial or some type of pushback could mean the man forces himself on her. Now, this isn't to say that if she said no then DMS would've just continued and sexually assaulted her, but is the woman willing to take the chance that saying no could mean being forced into sex. Even if it's a 5 percent chance, there's a chance, and a handjob is the lesser of two evils for something she didn't even want to do in the first place.

It's a fucking terrible mindset to go "unless she was actually threatened/forced then then it's consensual" when she visibly was not into it by taking her hand away immediately. If that's your idea of consent then I truly don't know what to tell you.